18/19 24’ E Series speed control

[BigAbe75]

I’m so disappointed in my ‘19 242X speed control settings, particularly under ballast load.

I can set my rider profile with desired speed. It does pretty well keeping up with straight line activities. Pulling a tube, it is much less consistent than my old servo powered perfect pass from my old 210.

When surfing, I consistently have to bump the rider speed up to 13.5+ in order to actually achieve 10.4 as measured by a speedometer app on my phone.

Also annoying that the actual speed is only shown in whole numbers, despite being allowed to set the desired speed to the tenth decimal place.

@Ridesteady @JetBoatPilot

I’m sure it’s too new, and possibly too integrated... but any ideas whether ridesteady or the new perfect pass product would be able to maintain better speed?

Are other users seeing the same thing? Or, is my boat just misconfigured or something?

I have not mentioned it to my dealer, as I’m assuming it is working correctly. But, I think I’ll add it to my end of season list.

 

[BigAbe75]

@JetBoatPilot i think I saw a pic of you standing next to a new blue 242X. I hope that’s your new test boat and you can play around with the speed control in the rider profiles while varying the activities and load. ?

 

[Ridesteady]

I’m sure it’s too new, and possibly too integrated... but any ideas whether ridesteady or the new perfect pass product would be able to maintain better speed?

Unfortunately, Ridesteady can't integrate with E-series boats.

I haven't been on an E-series boat, but my suspicion is that they don't have true speed-based control from what I've heard. No closed-loop control system would allow for such a huge difference between the set speed and the actual speed.

You're not alone though--that is a fairly common complaint. AFAIK, the best you can do is just increase the set speed to try to offset any extra loading you may have.

 

[Scottie]

That's disappointing to here. We surf almost exclusively now, every trip. That would be a non-starter, like sell the boat issue for me.

 

[BigAbe75]

Unfortunately, Ridesteady can't integrate with E-series boats.

I haven't been on an E-series boat, but my suspicion is that they don't have true speed-based control from what I've heard. No closed-loop control system would allow for such a huge difference between the set speed and the actual speed.

You're not alone though--that is a fairly common complaint. AFAIK, the best you can do is just increase the set speed to try to offset any extra loading you may have.

So... granted that this is total speculation... what do you think the likelihood that all the pieces and parts is in the boat already and a software update could recalibrate it to work speed based rather than rpm based?? (Or whatever it’s doing)

 

[BigAbe75]

That's disappointing to here. We surf almost exclusively now, every trip. That would be a non-starter, like sell the boat issue for me.

Don’t think I’m quite to that point, yet. Lol

Absolutely love the boat, and we’re making it work. But, I do hope that the Connext development continues and that they are able to update firmware on prior models to make some things work better.

 

[swatski]

Don’t think I’m quite to that point, yet. Lol

When we finally meet, I would like you to pilot my rig and give the RideSteady a try...
Or... maybe not. lolol.

--

 

[BigAbe75]

When we finally meet, I would like you to pilot my rig and give the RideSteady a try...
Or... maybe not. lolol.

--

Lol, sounds great! I wouldn’t mind seeing all your other mods first hand either.

I’m just saying that I’m getting by, by doing what @Ridesteady suggested and over clocking my desired speed. It’s just annoying that I have to use a phone app to see true speed, then use the up/down arrows to make the minute adjustments. When I know that Ridesteady exists and is accurate out of the gate.

 

[Ridesteady]

So... granted that this is total speculation... what do you think the likelihood that all the pieces and parts is in the boat already and a software update could recalibrate it to work speed based rather than rpm based?? (Or whatever it’s doing)

Assuming their GPS receiver is good enough, I would think a software upgrade could fix it. But yes, pure speculation.

 

[Julian]

I had my boat in at the beginning of the year because the speed reading would keep going to ERR then back to the speed. The dealer claimed they fixed it, but its back at it again. This kills the speed control system in the boat as well. Its really annoying.

I agree that not showing tenths is a PITA, my boat lags behind in the speed control too. Its not so bad when you are skiing or boarding, but at wake surfing speeds its a big deal to be 1-2mph off!!!

 

[Julian]

@BigAbe75 this applies to 2016 and 17 models too. Mind if I move this to the general forum and modify the title?

 

[Julian]

I am curious if this effects all these boats (I suspect it does), so I created a poll:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/does...-when-using-the-speed-control-function.23891/

 

[Mainah]

Unfortunately, Ridesteady can't integrate with E-series boats.

I haven't been on an E-series boat, but my suspicion is that they don't have true speed-based control from what I've heard. No closed-loop control system would allow for such a huge difference between the set speed and the actual speed.

You're not alone though--that is a fairly common complaint. AFAIK, the best you can do is just increase the set speed to try to offset any extra loading you may have.

The throttle levers on 16/17 (perhaps even 18/19 but have not seen those to confirm) eseries have replaced the aps. Still 6 wire 5v ref pots for each lever with a different connector than the aps but all the same I/O. Would seem to me that just swaping for the correct connector on the ridestady nodes and installing at them at the levers is all that would be needed. Well that and extending the Cam Position Sensor wires.

Granted the BCU sits between the engines and levers in a 16/17 e series so there might be a very slight bit of added delay but the i/o to/from the levers is still analog 6 wire 5v ref.

 

[Ridesteady]

The throttle levers on 16/17 (perhaps even 18/19 but have not seen those to confirm) eseries have replaced the aps. Still 6 wire 5v ref pots for each lever with a different connector than the aps but all the same I/O. Would seem to me that just swaping for the correct connector on the ridestady nodes and installing at them at the levers is all that would be needed. Well that and extending the Cam Position Sensor wires.

Granted the BCU sits between the engines and levers in a 16/17 e series so there might be a very slight bit of added delay but the i/o to/from the levers is still analog 6 wire 5v ref.

I'm guessing there must also be some "forward / neutral / reverse" position wires coming off of the binnacle?

 

[BigAbe75]

@Ridesteady if you can make your way to St Louis sometime, you can check out my boat in person. And, I bet we could both get a ride on @swatski ’s. ?

 

[Mjolsen74]

@BigAbe75 -- Agreed on the speed control and especially under ANY ballast weight. I didn't check to gps app speeds yesterday, but saturday on a river cruise it was spot on at 44-47mph.

I finally got my wake wedge and 800lbs transom fatsac and was able to surf rope-free this weekend on my '19 242x. I am 200lbs and my buddy is like 210lbs. I was able to surf for several minutes but he had to perform pilot miracles. Fiddle with speed from 11 down to 9.5 to get the boat to a decent plane, keep the wheel with slight left turn and balance the two adults on the boat from bow to stern. It is WAY to complicated so far to get a good surf on these boats..

He was unable to maintain a surf but I believe that was us not fully mirroring each other driving and a little bit of him getting too eager to throw rope without getting a good feel for it too soon.

My setup for my run:

• 11mph start with fast pull (normally did medium pull but boat under that extra 800lbs ballast seemed really laggy)
• 9.5mph cruise once wake felt/looked slightly better (planed up)?
• Slight left turn whole time
• Wake Wedge I had 2-4 360 turns on adjustments (curious here how to measure and set as it has a lot of play).
  • I had to lean over boat at plane and push down on the "play" to get an idea of where it should be
• Ballast:
  • Center Ballast was about 75-80% (frustrated with yamaha as the ballast will NOT fill up completely and haven't figured out how to solve this?)
  • Left Transom (Set for 100% but again, probably only 80% due to above issue)
  • FatSac 800Lbs Swim Deck Transom (100%)
  • 215lbs dude driving my boat, 120lbs wife moving front to back, 200lbs brother moving front to back

when I reviewed my videos the wake looked like crap with me on it, but I suspect me on the board made the area look crappy; in the water it HAD push and I was able to surf no problem within a pocket. A little scary how close it pulls you into the clean area and close to the boat.. had to really balance front and back foot weight. Overall I am now hooked on Wake Surfing and feel I don't have a boat to do it without "Magic". (don't flame me but I saw a video this week of the Nautique G23 Wake boat.. wow!)



Mike

 

[BigAbe75]

@BigAbe75 -- Agreed on the speed control and especially under ANY ballast weight. I didn't check to gps app speeds yesterday, but saturday on a river cruise it was spot on at 44-47mph.

I finally got my wake wedge and 800lbs transom fatsac and was able to surf rope-free this weekend on my '19 242x. I am 200lbs and my buddy is like 210lbs. I was able to surf for several minutes but he had to perform pilot miracles. Fiddle with speed from 11 down to 9.5 to get the boat to a decent plane, keep the wheel with slight left turn and balance the two adults on the boat from bow to stern. It is WAY to complicated so far to get a good surf on these boats..

He was unable to maintain a surf but I believe that was us not fully mirroring each other driving and a little bit of him getting too eager to throw rope without getting a good feel for it too soon.

My setup for my run:

• 11mph start with fast pull (normally did medium pull but boat under that extra 800lbs ballast seemed really laggy)
• 9.5mph cruise once wake felt/looked slightly better (planed up)?
• Slight left turn whole time
• Wake Wedge I had 2-4 360 turns on adjustments (curious here how to measure and set as it has a lot of play).
  • I had to lean over boat at plane and push down on the "play" to get an idea of where it should be
• Ballast:
  • Center Ballast was about 75-80% (frustrated with yamaha as the ballast will NOT fill up completely and haven't figured out how to solve this?)
  • Left Transom (Set for 100% but again, probably only 80% due to above issue)
  • FatSac 800Lbs Swim Deck Transom (100%)
  • 215lbs dude driving my boat, 120lbs wife moving front to back, 200lbs brother moving front to back

when I reviewed my videos the wake looked like crap with me on it, but I suspect me on the board made the area look crappy; in the water it HAD push and I was able to surf no problem within a pocket. A little scary how close it pulls you into the clean area and close to the boat.. had to really balance front and back foot weight. Overall I am now hooked on Wake Surfing and feel I don't have a boat to do it without "Magic". (don't flame me but I saw a video this week of the Nautique G23 Wake boat.. wow!)



Mike

Just a couple thoughts on your wake wedge setup. It needs to be essentially horizontal off the back of the boat. I’m not sure how many turns mine is, but I know that fastening the straps after putting the ladder away is a total pain because the ladder is in the way, it’s that close.

With the wake wedge, I usually run the center locker full plus the transom bag, and that’s it.

Speed, for us, is more like 10.4 to 10.7.


This weekend, I gave the wake booster a shot again. After breaking my wake wedge by falling on it, off the back of the boat in the parking lot. (Long story and bruise on my leg is nearly gone and wrist is finally feeling better. @Nickp98 ). (Just waiting on a new turnbuckle, the rest of the wake wedge survived intact. )

Anyway, we had Center full, full transom and, I really think I could have used another 400lb bag in the bow. My crew just isn't heavy enough yet. Oldest is 12. The wave did clean up once I got wife and all kids in the front. Bit, that doesn’t help much when wife is driving and I’m in the water. I did also fill the port bag, which helped... but still needed bow weight.

 

[Mainah]

I'm guessing there must also be some "forward / neutral / reverse" position wires coming off of the binnacle?

Good point but no, not even a neutral safety switch. Only the two 6 wire connections with the same 5v analog io as the aps. Those go the the BCU (Boat Control Unit) which then commincates over can bus the the ECMs and the SCU (shift control unit) for the buckets. My guess is that a certain voltage value is equated to neutral and then a large portion of the 0 to 5 v range is dedicated to forward and small range dedicated to reverse. The BCU then takes those values and transforms to legacy values.

A firmware change would most likely be needed to compensate for ridesteady to work. The upside is that once the correct voltage range is set in the ridesteady firmware the boat will handle the buckets on its own. Again I must say that there may have been changes with Connext v2.0. Downloading the service/wiring manuals from Yamaha should get you all you need to know for the 16/17 vs 18/19 boats. As for the voltage ranges if not published then that is something you would need a boat to test with.

 

[Mjolsen74]

Just a couple thoughts on your wake wedge setup. It needs to be essentially horizontal off the back of the boat. I’m not sure how many turns mine is, but I know that fastening the straps after putting the ladder away is a total pain because the ladder is in the way, it’s that close.

With the wake wedge, I usually run the center locker full plus the transom bag, and that’s it.

Speed, for us, is more like 10.4 to 10.7.


This weekend, I gave the wake booster a shot again. After breaking my wake wedge by falling on it, off the back of the boat in the parking lot. (Long story and bruise on my leg is nearly gone and wrist is finally feeling better. @Nickp98 ). (Just waiting on a new turnbuckle, the rest of the wake wedge survived intact. )

Anyway, we had Center full, full transom and, I really think I could have used another 400lb bag in the bow. My crew just isn't heavy enough yet. Oldest is 12. The wave did clean up once I got wife and all kids in the front. Bit, that doesn’t help much when wife is driving and I’m in the water. I did also fill the port bag, which helped... but still needed bow weight.

@BigAbe75 -- Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying Full transom (integrated) and both port/starboard, or extra swim deck 800lb bag on surf side?

How was wake booster? I really want to try that too as it seems much easier to put on and off in the water. I can't imagine removing wake wedge in the water. I have a an extremely hard time getting it installed on land! the ladder side pin and the back of the wedge rubs, I had to drill out the pin hole as it wasn't perfectly aligned (emailed and jerry recommended reaming the hole if still too tight), but the pin either direction is extremely tight. I have to drop the "wing" install pin and man handle to get the wing back up and strapped in.

 

[BigAbe75]

@BigAbe75 -- Thanks for the feedback. Are you saying Full transom (integrated) and both port/starboard, or extra swim deck 800lb bag on surf side?

With the wedge, I have not been using either side of the stock ballast. Center only. Plus the swim deck bag. I was calling that the transom bag.

For me, I need to get my different crews straight in my head. When we go out with the guys, we have 4-5 adults and can get by with less. This weekend we ran with the transom bag only and had a good enough wave w 6 adults and 2 kids. With my family of 5 (including kids of 3, 6, and 12), I need more weight everywhere, I think.

I have a spare 400lb bag. I may try to fill that up in the bow next time we have a dedicated surf outing. Like everyone says, it’s the setup time that annoys the wife the most. Maybe I should have her drop me off with the boat then come back in 30 minutes. I could have everything filled up by then. Lol