2004 SX230 Audio Upgrades Part 2

[MOA_Chaser]

Last year I got a pair of Icon8 tower speakers and a JL XD600/6 amp from Earmark. It was a definite step up in boat audio for me.

However, after tuning the speakers to the amp so that max volume is just under clipping/distortion, they're not as loud as we thought they'd be. They do pretty well, but would like to be able to push a little more.

I don't have a sub in my boat. I'm thinking that adding a subwoofer to the equation with a proper crossover will take a LOT of the stress off of the Icon8s and let them do their midrange and highs work much better. Would it work out this way, or am I off base?

Any suggestions for a sub (powered or passive) would be welcome too! The WetSounds HT-AS10 seems to have some good reviews, but I have no idea where I could mount it in my SX230...

 

[David Analog]

Although a larger 8-inch speaker, the Wetsounds Icon8 is a surf speaker with a conventional dome tweeter, and not an HLCD. More toward SQ and near proximity listening than all out SPL for maximum projection. One pair isn't going to present an authoritive output at wake range.....but should be excellent at surf range or in scenarios at rest behind the boat. And not the right speaker if you want to be "that guy" at the party cove. However, two pair of Icon8s properly driven makes a much stronger impression at wake range, even though it's not an HLCD.
If you are driving the Icon8s with two channels off the XD600/6, then that is not enough power. If you are bridging four channels into two to drive the Icon8s then that is a bit over the top of the speaker's thermal capacity but if tuned correctly for that power level and always run below hard clipping you are completely safe.
If you are bridging, hopefully you followed Odin's, from Earmark, instructions on how to correctly bridge for a symmetrical fullrange signal. If you have any doubts then I would revisit this issue with him.
Whether or not you have a subwoofer, the tower speakers should be run in the 'highpass mode' rather than 'fullrange'. A higher crossover point will result in less midbass at lower listening levels/near field but greater output and projection when driven hard. So there is a trade-off to be made according to your priorities.
To clear up any misconception.....a subwoofer will definitely modify your perception of overall amplitude by introducing the bottom several octaves that are otherwise missing. However, a reasonably sized/powered subwoofer will not project much deep bass away from the boat, particularly when underway. So don't add a sub for impact while boarding. A subwoofer will have a profound affect on the music within the boat, even if you are not a basshead. Without those lower fundamentals, that only a subwoofer can provide, the music is thin and without foundation. Personally, I don't care for the extra fat bass sound, although I do appreciate a very robust sub because I want ALL the music and I never want to hear the subwoofer/sub-amp laboring.
Yes, narrowing the bandwidth of the tower amplifier and speakers will indeed increase the available output, and, clean up the midrange by reducing excess low frequency excursion and midrange modulation. But, as mentioned above, you should have the tower speakers in the 'highpass' mode regardless.

 

[MOA_Chaser]

Thanks David,

I did bridge the amp and followed Odin's installation instructions to the letter. We aren't looking for wake range performance, but we are trying for a strong party cove system. Since I set this up last spring, I'm not 100% sure that I have the speakers in highpass mode, but I will check on that this week when I can get to my boat (in storage).

 

[fairpilot]

I also want to tear out current system and put in something better. I dont need big attention getter, just a nice clean sounding system I can hear sitting in a chair near boat.
2006 SX230

 

[MOA_Chaser]

@David Analog , I just checked and YES, the Icons were set to full range! I don't have any batteries near the system but am curious now to see how much more output I can get out of them.

In the meantime, does anyone have the #WetSounds HT-AS10 powered sub? The reviews seem good, and I'm wondering where in the world I could put it in my boat. Or if I should just forget that and get an IB sub, or something else.

 

[David Analog]

@David Analog , I just checked and YES, the Icons were set to full range! I don't have any batteries near the system but am curious now to see how much more output I can get out of them.

In the meantime, does anyone have the #WetSounds HT-AS10 powered sub? The reviews seem good, and I'm wondering where in the world I could put it in my boat. Or if I should just forget that and get an IB sub, or something else.

Good to hear you'll be seeing an improvement in the Icons. If you have any questions, Odin can walk you through how to best tune the tower.

As for the subwoofer, unless you are doing something monsterous, it is better to start with the boat rather than the product. The best performance and value will come from an application-driven design. The boat should dictate the best approach to a sub and enclosure combo in this case.
The Wetsounds HT-AS10 is compact, powerful, cost-effective, and an easy install since it's all in one. An acoustic suspension subwoofer, like the sealed HT-AS10 has an inherent advantage over an infinite baffle (IB) subwoofer of the same size. Why? Because the air spring of the trapped air in the sealed enclosure is a more linear method of controlling the sub versus an IB sub that is mostly self damped and self dependent. In other words, the acoustic suspension sub can deliver longer excursions under more control, thus more output. But if you have to conceal the subwoofer inside a helm or bench seat console with a small vent cut in to allow the bass radiation to pass, then you may lose any advantage it may have had. The main benefit of an infinite baffle subwoofer is that it is direct-radiating so there is zero loss from being contained inside another structure. There are pros and cons to both. Your best route will be to inspect your particular boat and determine which is the most optimum of the two choices. Once you begin to narrow down your various location and loading options, fire back. A few photos or reference images could help.
For an enclosed sub/box you have to consider how you will insert the enclosure into the intended cavity. In some boats you simply lift up the bench seat cushion for access. The opening is huge. Easy. In other boats access may be through a relatively small hatch in the pass-thru or walk-way between the helm consoles. This location might require a custom built enclosure of very specific dimensions to fit through the hatch.

 

[MikeyL]

Hey David !!!!!!!! Great seeing you here, Brother. This insures even more QUALITY posts and answers on this wonderful Forum !

 

[David Analog]

I also want to tear out current system and put in something better. I dont need big attention getter, just a nice clean sounding system I can hear sitting in a chair near boat.
2006 SX230

This is very easy to accomplish 'in the boat'.
The part about "sitting in a chair near the boat" can be a different story. Typically projection away from the boat is done with directional tower speakers whether to a rider or a group relaxing behind the boat. Even a relatively powerful system 'within' the boat has difficulty getting sound out of the bathtub, so to speak, over the gunnel caps and down at water level in an open area. The current consumption at rest is excessive for what you get and the inboat audio equipment usually labors to project even a very short distance away from the boat. If you do not have a tower then there are transom-mounted options, whether permanent or temporary once you reach your destination. I may be off track so let us know a little more detail about your objectives.

 

[fairpilot]

Yes I agree, I was thinking of doing some small speakers on bimini clips that I can use while parked and store when underway. I do not have a tower. Lookig to replace the 4 stock 6.5 inch and maybe a small sub woofer. New deck and amp. just not into itto the poing of spending tons of money and using it so little. I have looked at a marine JBL amp(400wats) and a Kenwood Reciever. looks like it all totals around $400

 

[MOA_Chaser]

I looked around on my boat and it seems like the best places to put the sub(s) would be beside the pedestal seats under the cup holders (least obtrusive) or the front of the side-seat storage.

 

[MOA_Chaser]

Has anyone installed subs in the panels under the cupholders? That seems like it would be less likely to affect storage, etc. there.

I'm also curious about speaker phase. Won't pointing two speakers at each other like that end up being out of phase and degrade each others' sound?

 

[David Analog]

Has anyone installed subs in the panels under the cupholders? That seems like it would be less likely to affect storage, etc. there.

I'm also curious about speaker phase. Won't pointing two speakers at each other like that end up being out of phase and degrade each others' sound?

Yes, the phasing is a real issue. Virtually every occupant will be a different distance from the two subs and the radiation reflected from their surrounding boundaries. It's not ideal for how efficiently the two outputs combine and it smears the impulses somewhat. However, what you described in symmetrical locations directly across from one another is a far, far better scenario than many other split locations. There is no scenario as good as two identical subs tightly collected and oriented the same that are positioned at one corner of the cockpit....but you won't find many boats that can achieve acoustic perfection. Sometimes you have to weigh your options and take the best from what the particular boat gives you. It's like choosing the leper with the most fingers.
Any chance you have enough width to place the two subs side by side on one surface, whether that is the port or starboard?

 

[MOA_Chaser]

I could do that. The Icon8's are on the tower facing to the stern, of course... another option MAY be to put the sub(s) facing rearward where your feet would be while sitting in the pedestal seats. I would have to measure the area and see what could fit there. The purple and green options would impact my storage options, but that's OK if they'll sound better. (This is just representative of the layout)

 

[David Analog]

I could do that. The Icon8's are on the tower facing to the stern, of course... another option MAY be to put the sub(s) facing rearward where your feet would be while sitting in the pedestal seats. I would have to measure the area and see what could fit there. The purple and green options would impact my storage options, but that's OK if they'll sound better. (This is just representative of the layout)

View attachment 2597

The impulse response of the purple would be the best because the two woofers are oriented to fire in the same direction. As you move farther away from the woofers, any difference in distance will be equalized. This has to be the best scenario.
It's a relatively short distance between the woofer in the green location and the forward corners of the bathtub directly ahead (any phasing issues with the forward reflection might be just above the subwoofer's bandwidth) so it is roughly the equivalent of the woofer located in the forward corner. But, without the 'in your face' transients of the purple.
Other than some difference in the midbass leading edge attack favoring the purple, I don't see a major problem with any of the three. The beam of the boat places the red woofers about a half wavelength apart through the meat of the bass so there is some concern there. I know that the lower gunnel wall surface is easy to reinforce with a front-loading split baffle ring and the seat consoles are easy to reinforce with a whole baffle ring. Not sure about the helm consoles.
It would be interesting to use a couple of test 8" air suspension woofers in very shallow enclosures and rotate the subs in the various locations.

 

[Detonate]

Why two subs? I roll with one and it definitely kicks...

If I wanted more, I'd just get a bigger sub.

I can snap some pics later, but basically I use a Alpine 500 watt mono block powering a single Alpine 10" Dual Voice Coil Subwoofer.

It's a box that I had built to just squeeze through the starboard hatch behind the drivers wheel. I literally toss it up so that it pins itself between the wall and the bow seating area, so the loss in storage space is extremely minimal. (Need to snap pics of this).

Then I put a vent in like this one.

Copied this idea, but I put my sub on the opposite side.

 

[MOA_Chaser]

@Detonate I'd really like to see pics of your setup... I was going with 2 for symmetry, and also that sub frequencies are all about moving air so the more, the better. If one works, though, that's great! I am wanting to save as much storage as possible, there never seems to be enough.

 

[maboat]

I tried the 'red' locations because of the zero-footprint with regards to not taking away any storage space. I did have a big problem with not being able to isolate the sound wave coming off the backside of the cone. The cupholders vented a fair amount of the sound pressure from the back of the woofer cone and I felt that did much more damage to the sound quality than the two subs facing each other at 7 feet apart. Although I must say that location seemed to be the best as far as hearing the bass outside the boat as it made the whole sides of the boat vibrate. But it didn't sound so good inside the boat.

I finally decided that the 'purple' location was best, but there not much space to mount a subwoofer there. I ended up putting speaker enclosures inside the storage compartments at the 'purple' locations. Then I put sound vents (from Earmark) seen here.

 

[maboat]

Ooops I see that @Detonate posted while I was digging up my photo

We basically did the same thing, except that I have TWO subwoofers. One on each side. He has one dual-coil subwoofer on one side.

 

[MOA_Chaser]

What are you running for amps and subs, @maboat?

Looking forward to seeing some of these enclosures within the storage compartments!

 

[Geiger41]

Check my sig, maybe my setup is an option for some of you. The install will be March 28th !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!