252/255 Radar install

[Life Below The Rim]

Good morning all , Getting ready to take delivery on our 255 and was wondering if anyone has installed radar with the Simrad and if the new Simrad is radar capable?

 

[84rzv500r]

I have a Furuno 4Kw on my AR210... I use it with an iPad display overlayed on TZ charts at night.

 

[Kelleyja]

Good morning all , Getting ready to take delivery on our 255 and was wondering if anyone has installed radar with the Simrad and if the new Simrad is radar capable?

Yep, the Go12XSE in the FSH will do radar just fine. The install is a little tricky getting the cables up to the hardtop but completely doable.

 

[SDAnderson51]

Yep, the Go12XSE in the FSH will do radar just fine. The install is a little tricky getting the cables up to the hardtop but completely doable.

View attachment 177112

Any suggestions on a Radar that is compatible? how about the Halo?

 

[Kelleyja]

The Halo 20/20+ is pretty much your option for Simrad. The Halo 24 and open arrays will fit but the issue would be mounting with the larger radars. The hardtop is thin and with very little internal access so I opted for the Halo20+. At 20 inches the dome is manageable from a mounting perspective. I wanted the ability to track objects coming towards me, so I chose the 20+ over the 20 because it adds Doppler tracking.

You may want to also get a satellite compass. This allows you to overlay the radar image on your charts, which is helpful if using the radar to navigate. I used a Simrad HS60, because it is supposed to be less susceptible to interference and I was mounting it in the hardtop with the radar and VHF

 

[Life Below The Rim]

Yep, the Go12XSE in the FSH will do radar just fine. The install is a little tricky getting the cables up to the hardtop but completely doable.

View attachment 177112

Thanks! Haven’t been able to get any model information on the simrad unit. Would love to hear about your install. Any pics and how you routed. Also did you integrate a vhf into the backbone ?

 

[MilesPrower]

I hijacked one of @HangOutdoors threads and described how I installed a Halo 20+ on the T-Top of a 252/255 last year, photos included, here:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/255-fsh-for-the-spring.35891/post-577749

Personally, I feel that the GO12 XSE is not sufficient for running the Halo 20+ radar with the HS60 GPS compass/heading sensor to overlay the radar image on top of the sonar chart, and display the chart head-up (where the boat is currently pointing, not necessarily going) in real-time (fast enough to be usable for navigation).

The GO12 is way too slow in processing speed, so the display has way too much lag for navigation, especially at night or in the fog. The lag gets even worse if you ask the GO12 to generate a structure-scan image with an Active 3-in-1 transducer. And don't even think about running auto-pilot with a MotorGuide Xi5 trolling motor; the GO12 chokes up, with 1+ sec of lag for chart refresh, and 3+ sec to switch modes.

Attached here is an image of my Simrad NSS12 evo3s (my main MFD), with radar overlaying Navionics+ SonarChart. The NSS12 is ethernet-networked to the Halo 20+ and GO12 XSE. (Both displays are also NMEA2K-networked to the roof-mounted HS60 and bow-mounted MotorGuide Xi5.) The NSS12 is generating the radar overlay, the sonar chart, and the structure-scan image for the GO12. The GO12 is generating the CHIRP image with the thru-hull HDI transducer, and displaying that alongside the structure-scan image.

Yeah, I really should do my own radar/network/navigation/autopilot post. ?

P.S. Some notes for my fellow geeks out there ?:

The structure that you see on the GO12, starboard of the boat, is what's left over from the demolition of the old Pensacola Bay Bridge — mostly old pilings.

As you can see on the NSS12's mini tide chart, it's nearly the top of high-tide. Therefore, the fishing looks bleak. An hour later, when the tide started moving out, the fishing improved.

Each of the MFDs has a tab along the left edge labeled Trolling. If I click on that tab, a drawer slides into view, giving me options to control the MotorGuide Xi5. From the drawer, I can command the MotorGuide to perform an anchor lock, move the boat in 5 ft increments, take me to a saved waypoint, or navigate to a point I click on the screen.

Check out the voltage difference between the NSS12 and GO12 — a full 0.5 V down on the GO12. Why? Because Yamaha used the thinnest gauge wire everywhere they could. Yamaha bang-for-the-buck = cheap build-quality.

There are two fasteners next to the Cruise Assist's GPS puck. Those fell out of the trim for the starboard fishing/trash locker. I've had so many fasteners come loose — probably because the poorly skilled factory laborers used an impact wrench to drive down all the fasteners with enough force to strip fiberglass — that I keep a ziplock bag of loose fasteners in the drawer of the aforementioned locker. The two fasteners next to the puck haven't made it into that bag yet.

 

[Julian]

I hijacked one of @HangOutdoors threads and described how I installed a Halo 20+ on the T-Top of a 252/255 last year, photos included, here:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/255-fsh-for-the-spring.35891/post-577749

Personally, I feel that the GO12 XSE is not sufficient for running the Halo 20+ radar with the HS60 GPS compass/heading sensor to overlay the radar image on top of the sonar chart, and display the chart head-up (where the boat is currently pointing, not necessarily going) in real-time (fast enough to be usable for navigation).

The GO12 is way too slow in processing speed, so the display has way too much lag for navigation, especially at night or in the fog. The lag gets even worse if you ask the GO12 to generate a structure-scan image with an Active 3-in-1 transducer. And don't even think about auto-pilot using a MotorGuide i5 trolling motor; the GO12 chokes up, with 1+ sec of lag for chart refresh, and 3+ sec to switch modes.

Attached here is an image of my Simrad NSS12 evo3s (my main MFD), with radar overlaying Navionics+ SonarChart. The NSS12 is ethernet-networked to the Halo 20+ and GO12 XSE. (Both displays are also NMEA2K-networked to the roof-mounted HS60 and bow-mounted MotorGuide i5.) The NSS12 is generating the radar overlay, the sonar chart, and the structure-scan image for the GO12. The GO12 is generating the CHIRP image with the thru-hull HDI transducer, and displaying that alongside the structure-scan image.

Yeah, I really should do my own radar/network/navigation/autopilot post. ?

P.S. Some notes for my fellow geeks out there ?:

The structure that you see on the GO12, starboard of the boat, is what's left over from the demolition of the old Pensacola Bay Bridge — mostly old pilings.

As you can see on the NSS12's mini tide chart, it's right at the top of high-tide. Therefore, the fishing looks bleak. An hour later, when the tide started moving out, the fishing improved.

Each of the MFDs has a tab along the left edge labeled Trolling. If I click on that tab, a drawer slides into view, giving me options to control the MotorGuide i5. From the drawer, I can command the MotorGuide to perform an anchor lock, move the boat in 5 ft increments, take me to a saved waypoint, or navigate to a point I click on the screen.

Check out the voltage difference between the NSS12 and GO12 — a full 0.5 V down on the GO12. Why? Because Yamaha used the thinnest gauge wire everywhere they could. Bang-for-the-buck = cheap build-quality.

There are two fasteners next to the Cruise Assist GPS puck. Those fell out of the trim for the starboard fishing/trash locker. I've had so many fasteners come loose — probably because the poorly skilled factory laborers used an impact wrench to drive down all the fasteners with enough force to strip fiberglass — that I keep a ziplock bag of loose fasteners in the drawer of the aforementioned locker. The two fasteners next to the puck haven't made it into that bag yet.

Great info! Yes you SHOULD create a thread detailing what you did and your recommendations...and start a radar install company!!!

 

[Kelleyja]

The GO12 is way too slow in processing speed, so the display has way too much lag for navigation, especially at night or in the fog. The lag gets even worse if you ask the GO12 to generate a structure-scan image with an Active 3-in-1 transducer. And don't even think about running auto-pilot with a MotorGuide Xi5 trolling motor; the GO12 chokes up, with 1+ sec of lag for chart refresh, and 3+ sec to switch modes.

Agree, the Go12 is a dog compared to the NSS Evo3s. Suitability depends on how you're using it, I would not use the Go12 even for the GPS/plotter as my sole source of navigation in 1 ft visibility. I use mine to creep on fishing boats at 30 miles out, weather, and finding those pesky kayaks and jet skis.... works fine for that purpose. I use the HS60, but don't have the 3 in 1 currently

 

[Preditor4u]

Yeah, I really should do my own radar/network/navigation/autopilot post. ?

Did you also put an autopilot on the 255?

 

[MilesPrower]

Did you also put an autopilot on the 255?

The MotorGuide Xi5 trolling motor, if NMEA2K-networked to a Simrad MFD, can take commands from the Simrad's autopilot.

I can do the basic stuff like position lock, heading lock, course lock, or navigate to points on the map (with a target speed over ground). But for me, the best feature is the ability to touch the sonar image (as opposed to the map/chart) and tell the trolling motor to take me to the location that corresponds to the sonar image.

If I'm fishing bottom, over a wreck or a reef, I usually motor over the wreck/reef several times at different angles, to determine where the fish are holding. I touch the screen to place my cursor on the structure-scan or down-scan sonar image where I see the most fish, and the Simrad stops the sonar image from scrolling. I deploy the trolling motor, shut off the jets, and command the trolling motor to return me to the GPS location that corresponds to the cursor on the sonar image. Once the boat is locked in position and has swung its tail with the wind and/or current, I drop a line in the water and estimate how the current might be affecting where my drop-rig is landing. Using the positioning controls on the Simrad, I move the boat to compensate.

 

[Preditor4u]

The MotorGuide Xi5 trolling motor, if NMEA2K-networked to a Simrad MFD, can take commands from the Simrad's autopilot.

I can do the basic stuff like position lock, heading lock, course lock, or navigate to points on the map (with a target speed over ground). But for me, the best feature is the ability to touch the sonar image (as opposed to the map/chart) and tell the trolling motor to take me to the location that corresponds to the sonar image.

If I'm fishing bottom, over a wreck or a reef, I usually motor over the wreck/reef several times at different angles, to determine where the fish are holding. I touch the screen to place my cursor on the structure-scan or down-scan sonar image where I see the most fish, and the Simrad stops the sonar image from scrolling. I deploy the trolling motor, shut off the jets, and command the trolling motor to return me to the GPS location that corresponds to the cursor on the sonar image. Once the boat is locked in position and has swung its tail with the wind and/or current, I drop a line in the water and estimate how the current might be affecting where my drop-rig is landing. Using the positioning controls on the Simrad, I move the boat to compensate.

That sounds like an awesome setup for fishing. I have been looking into doing an autopilot for my rig to just ease having to steer it all the time while traveling distances and trolling for stuff lick wahoo while fishing etc using the jets. But haven't determined a solution yet although I am looking into the drive unit below for replacing the helm on my 255. So I was hoping you had found a solution for that.

Outboard Pilot Cable-Steer Pack | Marine Autopilot | Simrad USA

The Outboard Pilot Cable-Steer Pack is an Autopilot pack for Lowrance HDS displays, providing automatic steering for cable-steer outboard motors.

www.simrad-yachting.com

 

[MilesPrower]

That sounds like an awesome setup for fishing. I have been looking into doing an autopilot for my rig to just ease having to steer it all the time while traveling distances and trolling for stuff lick wahoo while fishing etc using the jets. But haven't determined a solution yet although I am looking into the drive unit below for replacing the helm on my 255. So I was hoping you had found a solution for that.

Outboard Pilot Cable-Steer Pack | Marine Autopilot | Simrad USA

The Outboard Pilot Cable-Steer Pack is an Autopilot pack for Lowrance HDS displays, providing automatic steering for cable-steer outboard motors.

www.simrad-yachting.com

I did a lil' bit of looking a while back, but I couldn't find a drop-in solution for autopilot steering of our jets.

The main issue is that we have a rack-and-pinion dual-cable steering system. I have yet to find an autopilot drive unit that works with that kind of steering.

One potential solution would be to swap out the helm for a hydraulic one, and then fashion a linear "actuator track" upon which a single hydraulic ram/cylinder/actuator could push/pull the dual cables yoked together. (The two cables on our steering systems move exactly in unison when we turn the wheel. Therefore, a single hydraulic ram could push/pull both cables if both cable ends were attached to a common yoke at the end of the ram.) There's plenty of room above the fuel tank (underneath the floor where you stand at the helm) where such an "actuator track" could be installed.

With that said, our boats track so poorly (even with Cobra Jet Fins) in any water that is not absolutely flat, so the autopilot system would have to be extra robust to keep the boat on course.

On my other boat (29 ft pilothouse with dual Yamaha outboards), I had the dealer install a Helm Master EX system with fly-by-wire steering, autopilot, joystick control, MFD integration, etc. I absolutely love having autopilot when I'm trolling offshore, or even when I'm inshore and I want to make good time running on plane in the middle of the night. In the latter case, I like to concentrate on (a) looking out for collision targets on the radar overlay, and (b) spotting floating debris or other hazards on the night-vision cameras... without having to make constant adjustments to the wheel to stay on course while bouncing through the waves.

If you figure out a reasonable autopilot solution for the FSH 255, let us know!

 

[Preditor4u]

Thanks for the input. Yeah still researching. Meanwhile im doing upgrades now for a second chart plotter, radar, and a VHF radio now before I head down that road. Sound system upgrades as well.

 

[MilesPrower]

trolling for stuff lick wahoo while fishing etc using the jets.

BTW, on my FSH 255, if I'm trolling at around 5 or 6 kt, which in my mind is the lowest acceptable speed for wahoo (but I'm not a wahoo expert), I can drop the MotorGuide Xi5 in the water, set the course or heading on my Simrad NSS evo3S, and use my jets to move me forward, while the MotorGuide operates like a bow thruster to keep the boat on course. (I think someone else on this forum may have recommended this technique a couple years ago, but I can't remember whom. Thank you to the originator of this idea!) When I'm trolling for mackerel, the MotorGuide "bow thruster" method works great while the jets are maintaining trolling speed.

 

[Preditor4u]

Interesting idea. Hadn't thought of it that way. Yeah that is on the low ind of trolling for sure.

 

[MilesPrower]

Meanwhile im doing upgrades now for a second chart plotter, radar, and a VHF radio now before I head down that road. Sound system upgrades as well.

I highly recommend getting an MFD that has physical controls, like the NSS evo3S. The ride of the 255 FSH in seas greater than 1 ft is crappy enough that operating a touchscreen can be challenging, especially when you're in a crowded area at night, and you end up having to stare at the screen because you keep missing the virtual button you're trying to touch.

I really like my Vesper Cortex V1 VHF radio with integrated AIS Class B+ transponder. It's so much easier to set up and use than other VHF radios I tried, and installation is way more flexible, because you can place the main unit wherever there's room, and the handset can be mounted so it's in your line of sight. The handset connects wirelessly to the main unit, so the only wiring to the handset is for 12 V power. The Cortex integrates seamlessly with my Simrad MFDs, so the Simrad displays AIS targets right on the chart, alongside MARPA targets and other collision liabilities. Plus, with AIS Class B+ transmission, my Cortex radio allows commercial (and military) boats to see my real-time position, speed, and heading when I'm fishing in their shipping lane (or in "restricted" US Navy waters) and hail me directly if they need me to move. Also, when we're fishing offshore at night, we wear inflatable PFDs with PLBs that transmit AIS. I haven't had to use this feature for myself or any of my passengers (yet)... but just a couple months ago, someone wearing an AIS PLB fell off a nearby boat that was docked, and my radio received an MOB signal which showed up as a target on my Simrad.

VHF Marine Radios | AIS Transceivers | Garmin

While on the water, Garmin VHF radios and Automatic Identification System (AIS) transceivers help you stay in touch and stay safe.

shop.vespermarine.com

I mounted the main unit inside the hardtop and the handset on the helm dashboard.

My other boat came from the factory with a Garmin VHF radio with an AIS Class B receiver. I swapped it out for a Vesper Cortex too.

If you go with an AIS-equipped radio, make sure you get a wideband antenna, like the Morad 159 MHz HD AIS/VHF Marine, which is what I have on the 255 FHS.

 

[MilesPrower]

One potential solution would be to swap out the helm for a hydraulic one, and then fashion a linear "actuator track" upon which a single hydraulic ram/cylinder/actuator could push/pull the dual cables yoked together. (The two cables on our steering systems move exactly in unison when we turn the wheel. Therefore, a single hydraulic ram could push/pull both cables if both cable ends were attached to a common yoke at the end of the ram.) There's plenty of room above the fuel tank (underneath the floor where you stand at the helm) where such an "actuator track" could be installed.

@Preditor4u — I just now remembered that some Yamaha boats have fly-by-wire controls, including electronic steering... which means that Yamaha already has a solution that utilizes hydraulic rams that push/pull the steering cables.

Therefore, a potential solution could be to replace your rack-and-pinion steering wheel and cables with (a) the hydraulic rams/cables from the Yamaha DRiVE steering system (from the 252SD model boat, for example), (b) a hydraulic wheel, and (c) the Lowrance DrivePilot Hydraulic-Steer Pack.

If you go down that rabbit hole, let us know what you find!