252SE CJS and Trim Tabs

[blamphere]

Morning everyone, after selling my current boat and the ensuing anxiety based on Yamaha availability, I finally got word that my boat is in. Headed to see it Saturday and do the paperwork, then keeping at the dealer until Spring as we are in full winter here in VT.

I have been combing the site for information on both Cobra Jet and Trim Tabs. There is almost too much info to cull through so thought I would just ask here in a new thread.

I am definitely planning to install trim tabs as Champlain can get pretty choppy, no weather ever kept us off the water in our 23' pontoon so I imagine we wont shy away with the Yamaha either. Any preference as to Lenco or Bennett, and what size tabs do you recommend?

CCJS - I know Jeff can help with the selection, but looking for a solid yes or no recommendation as to the need with an articulating keel and dual engines. I have plenty of experience with twin inboards and high wind load on a cruiser, so more interested in low speed tracking than docking probably, but not sure if those with similar size Yamahas and articulating keel still run CJ as well?

Will post pics of the boat next weekend

Exciting stuff.
Thanks,
Bryan

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Yes they do, I even sell them to people with the 27 foot models, plus the super magnum AK -19 deluxe system adds in a patented second tie rod for redundancy and balance as well as plaining surfaces for faster hole shot and a smoother ride. With my system you can deal with big waves also and even tack them , You can even rapidly decelerate and maintain steerage . Also the boat will turn without the huge speed bleed off that these boats experience . So installing the deluxe system does a lot more that just slow speed assistance at the helm and it does not increase the draft of the boat as all the system is above the keel and rudder. One more important thing is you do not need to replace the stainless steel factory standoffs that the reverse gates pivot on in order to install any of my systems this is especially important to the electronic reverse systems. And there is no harsh steering resistance at any speed.

 

[blamphere]

Excellent thank you sir. What's the best way to order, from your website?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

You can send me an email directly and I can handle it for you if you like jeff@cobrajetsteering.com

 

[zipper]

I would check out Lectrotabs. I put them on our Ar230. @swatski and many others installed them on their 240 series. I and more importantly, my wife, love them on Lake Champlain. Absolutly no problems in 4 years of use. Hands down the best ride comfort mod I installed.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/trim-tabs-options-wake-surfing-and-cruising.12031/

 

[blamphere]

I would check out Lectrotabs. I put them on our Ar230. @swatski and others installed them on their 240 series. I and more importantly, my wife, love them on Lake Champlain. Absolutly no problems in 4 years of use.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/trim-tabs-options-wake-surfing-and-cruising.12031/

@Lectrotab must have trim tabs for the 250 series.

Thanks Zipper

 

[212s]

but not sure if those with similar size Yamahas and articulating keel still run CJ as well?

It's subjective I guess...some think they need them, others don't. For me coming from a single prop I/O to the 212s with A/K and vectored reverse thrust, I don't find any issues with handling or docking. In fact I find it easier to dock with the Yamaha thanks to the easy fwd/rev throttle without pausing for the dog gear to clunk in/out, and the quick lock-to-lock steering is much faster. All the posts on here had me thinking I absolutely needed them, but when I got the boat and saw how well it handles I just ordered a second tie-rod to balance out the steering and that's it.

 

[Dean P]

I went with Bennett trim tabs on both the Yami and the Chap and the Cobras on the Yami (don't really need'em on the Chap). I wish trim tabs were standard on all boats. They help with getting on plane, balancing out the boat (should everyone sit on one side) and of course with chop. The Bennett (sport) tabs sides are folded over which helps with stability. The main point is to feel safe and having a good time on the water.

 

[Mully262]

More importantly.... Congrats on getting the boat ordered complete! I am checking out the trim tabs as well, don't really have anything of value to add to the technical convo.

 

[zipper]

Morning everyone, after selling my current boat and the ensuing anxiety based on Yamaha availability, I finally got word that my boat is in. Headed to see it Saturday and do the paperwork, then keeping at the dealer until Spring as we are in full winter here in VT.

I have been combing the site for information on both Cobra Jet and Trim Tabs. There is almost too much info to cull through so thought I would just ask here in a new thread.

I am definitely planning to install trim tabs as Champlain can get pretty choppy, no weather ever kept us off the water in our 23' pontoon so I imagine we wont shy away with the Yamaha either. Any preference as to Lenco or Bennett, and what size tabs do you recommend?
...
Will post pics of the boat next weekend

Exciting stuff.
Thanks,
Bryan

@blamphere I can say that 15-20kt winds out on the broad lake will kick up 4-5' swells. Not comfortable for us even with trim tabs. Less than that and you are good. The inland sea has more protection from building waves, as you know. I found these great manuvering around the chop and wakes of other boats all trying to get out of Malletts Bay heading to Thayer beach or the broad lake.

 

[swatski]

Maneuvering these boats around docks is really not an issue, especially with twin engine models.
However, trying to turn at speed while decelerating, i.e. w/no thrust, is a whole different proposition (hint: it doesn't work).

Most of the time the easiest way to not run into an obstacle/simplest avoidance maneuver is to accelerate and turn; but sometimes you can't do that. And that's where Cobras shine.
Saved my stupid a$$ from running straight into things... like river banks etc. a few times.

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[212s]

However, trying to turn at speed while decelerating, i.e. w/no thrust, is a whole different proposition (hint: it doesn't work).

Not sure why people keep saying this about the newer models with A/K...I can turn when coming off plane, not sharp like under throttle but it turns. Same as my old single prop I/O, coming off plane it wouldn't turn much better than my jet since there's no thrust from the prop. I learned years ago with the prop boats you had to bump the throttle if you needed to turn suddenly when coming off plane to get more steering input, or put it in reverse to stop and counter-steer, and it's the same for Yamaha jets. The I/O and outboards have more surface area for "rudder" control, but not a lot more below the keel where it counts when coming off plane.

 

[blamphere]

Appreciate the help and congrats guys, and thank you Jeff for the quick service! Looking forward to sharing some pics after going to see her Saturday!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

A few videos @swatski made using the original mega fangs and the original magnum AK if memory serves me correctly today those have been replaced with the super fins and the super fangs and a new deluxe version has become the best seller for the 2018 and previous year AK twin engine boats plus there is a new version of the super magnum ak-19 deluxe steering for the 2019 and newer models that are also my top seller for those model year boats. The super fins add more surface to the top of the fins for increased slow speed assistance without adding any more high speed assistance and they also have a set of inner top fins that work at slow speed as well but are not in the water on plane again for more slow speed assistance only off plane and the inner fins are above the outer fins to create a larger working surface area to increase the effect at slow speed without adding in any high speed resistance so that the steering is smooth at all speeds offering NO harsh resistance in either mode and all AK model twin engine systems have the patented second tie rod for balance. And ALL the deluxe packages also have the plaining surface for faster hole shots smoother ride in chop and a cleaner wake for watersport activities. So although they are not trim tabs they do offer some of the features of trim tabs and I always suggest trying them first and then deciding if you want to add trim tabs also, it just depends on what your preference is. And all the fins are adjustable so you can fine tune the system to your liking. And these are laser cut tempered aluminum. And these systems do not increase the draft of the boat or hang down below the original keel and rudder. Middle picture shows the plaining surface under the nozzle, top is the deluxe version for the 2019 and newer and the bottom is the 2018 and earlier AK twin engine boats.
links to posts https://jetboaters.net/threads/mega-fangs-cobra-ak-power-steering-doughnuts-in-reverse.15877/

https://jetboaters.net/threads/basic-information-about-the-various-options-from-cobra-jet-steering-llc.16857/

 

[swatski]

Not sure why people keep saying this about the newer models with A/K...I can turn when coming off plane, not sharp like under throttle but it turns. Same as my old single prop I/O, coming off plane it wouldn't turn much better than my jet since there's no thrust from the prop. I learned years ago with the prop boats you had to bump the throttle if you needed to turn suddenly when coming off plane to get more steering input, or put it in reverse to stop and counter-steer, and it's the same for Yamaha jets. The I/O and outboards have more surface area for "rudder" control, but not a lot more below the keel where it counts when coming off plane.

We must be living on different planets.
I used to run various small outboard boats for many years before I bought my first Yamaha jet boat, a 190. The ride and steering could hardly be more different compared to what I was used to... Granted, my current 240 with the "AK" rides a bit more like a traditional boat but no one would confuse it with running w/a lower unit.
I can not steer my 240 coming off of plane, she just plows ahead like a log. Maybe the water here in NJ is lighter? it still flows down though.

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[212s]

We must be living on different planets.

I doubt it...but that would be kinda cool when you think about it - interplanetary interwebs. I want a patent on that one!

Granted, my current 240 with the "AK" rides a bit more like a traditional boat but no one would confuse it with running w/a lower unit.
I can not steer my 240 coming off of plane, she just plows ahead like a log. Maybe the water here in NJ is lighter? it still flows down though.

Sorry, but my boat turns when I turn the steering wheel similar to my old I/O prop boat, on or off throttle. Not as quick or deliberate, but it turns as I stated previously, these are facts.

If you want to be belligerent and make snarky comments...have fun with that...I have kids and I'm used to it...

 

[212s]

Appreciate the help and congrats guys, and thank you Jeff for the quick service! Looking forward to sharing some pics after going to see her Saturday!

PICS...we want pics!

 

[212s]

I went with Bennett trim tabs on both the Yami and the Chap and the Cobras on the Yami (don't really need'em on the Chap).

Just looking for clarification here...you don't need the Cobras on the Chap, or don't need the tabs on the Chap? The tabs I get, but the BRP powered Chap would benefit from the Cobras, no?

 

[Dean P]

Just looking for clarification here...you don't need the Cobras on the Chap, or don't need the tabs on the Chap? The tabs I get, but the BRP powered Chap would benefit from the Cobras, no?

I don't need the Cobras on the Chaparral. The bucket design provides excellent steering capabilities at low speeds. This combined with iST and dialing in "true neutral" is awesome.

To answer your question, Definitely wouldn't hurt (especially when everyone or all the dogs (6) are sitting up front and lifting the stern some). And they would assist in coming off plane too. But, I've been doing fine without them.

I believe my sport tabs help (a little) in all these areas.

 

[swatski]

I doubt it...but that would be kinda cool when you think about it - interplanetary interwebs. I want a patent on that one!


Sorry, but my boat turns when I turn the steering wheel similar to my old I/O prop boat, on or off throttle. Not as quick or deliberate, but it turns as I stated previously, these are facts.

If you want to be belligerent and make snarky comments...have fun with that...I have kids and I'm used to it...

Hey, each to their own!

As far as my 190 and my 240: no thrust coming out of the pumps + no fins = steerability of a floating log. Leave alone trying to make figure S.

I posted it somewhere here a few years back - a diagram of making a tight turn into a channel to my old marina; with throttles pulled back / without fins I would overshoot the turn and had to recover and circle back. With fins - no issues; with those big Cobras the steerability is massively improved, especially apparent when coming off of plane, with throttles pulled back. Fact.

Yes, I'm aware there are members here who claim fins don't do anything. Well, what are you gonna do...? Each to their own. For me - there is no argument.

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