Advice on 19' or 21'

[shnknapp]

Looking into purchasing a boat and wanted some advice. Last year we purchased 2 Waverunners (EXR and VX Cruiser) and has blast with them. However, we got bored with the lakes around us and started riding the St. Croix River (border of Minnesota and Wisconsin). While I enjoyed being on the river, my wife did not like driving her own machine on the river as the wakes from the Yachts really freaked her out. Anyways she started just riding with me which left us with one machine that wasn't getting used. I also have herniated and repaired my L5 disc twice so I just couldn't risk another herniation. Those two factors led us to talks about selling them and getting into a boat. Well once the Waverunner/Boat shortage hit (Thanks COVID), we sold at a premium with the knowledge that we would have a hard time getting a boat for the rest of the season.

With that being said, we are now starting the process of really looking at what we would like to purchase. As I mentioned, we are close to the St. Croix on the Minnesota side so boating season is basically May - September. Currently going through a Refi with a closing in October so I'm looking to purchase over the winter. I've spent hours looking at the 2020 models and have obviously started looking at the 2021 models. We have narrowed our choices down to the 195S, 210Xor the 212. Obviously quite a difference in price between the 195S and the 212.

This is where I ask for help from the forum. We're both in our early 40s and our daughter is working on her masters so a majority of the time, it will be the two of us and our two large breed dogs. However, on occasion we will have friends (and their kids) with occasional tubing for them. Couple things I'd like advise on:

1. We like the look of the 195S but I wonder if it will be too small for us? Are two engines worth it? Is the lack of a boarding ladder in front something we would miss? When I decided to upgrade the stereo, will I need to add a second battery?

2. If the 21 foot is the better route are the engines in the 212 that much better over the 210? The captains chairs (w/ arm rests) on the 212 look like they may be more comfortable than the standard chairs? Is that the case? Is the teak style marine mat vs the marine grade woven mat better in quality or is simply aesthetics? We will be out on night so are the docking lights on the 212 a game changer?

3. Engines - I see the 195S has the 1.8 Super Vortex HO and the 212 has the 1.8. Are these the same engines and did Yamaha just omit the Super Vortex description?

4. Since I'm not looking at purchase before the end of boating season, assuming a boat show may happen, are boat show discounts typically significant?

Sorry for the long post and I'm sure I'll have more questions but thanks for any advise/thoughts/questions.

 

[AZMark]

Looking into purchasing a boat and wanted some advice. Last year we purchased 2 Waverunners (EXR and VX Cruiser) and has blast with them. However, we got bored with the lakes around us and started riding the St. Croix River (border of Minnesota and Wisconsin). While I enjoyed being on the river, my wife did not like driving her own machine on the river as the wakes from the Yachts really freaked her out. Anyways she started just riding with me which left us with one machine that wasn't getting used. I also have herniated and repaired my L5 disc twice so I just couldn't risk another herniation. Those two factors led us to talks about selling them and getting into a boat. Well once the Waverunner/Boat shortage hit (Thanks COVID), we sold at a premium with the knowledge that we would have a hard time getting a boat for the rest of the season.

With that being said, we are now starting the process of really looking at what we would like to purchase. As I mentioned, we are close to the St. Croix on the Minnesota side so boating season is basically May - September. Currently going through a Refi with a closing in October so I'm looking to purchase over the winter. I've spent hours looking at the 2020 models and have obviously started looking at the 2021 models. We have narrowed our choices down to the 195S, 210Xor the 212. Obviously quite a difference in price between the 195S and the 212.

This is where I ask for help from the forum. We're both in our early 40s and our daughter is working on her masters so a majority of the time, it will be the two of us and our two large breed dogs. However, on occasion we will have friends (and their kids) with occasional tubing for them. Couple things I'd like advise on:

1. We like the look of the 195S but I wonder if it will be too small for us? Are two engines worth it? Is the lack of a boarding ladder in front something we would miss? When I decided to upgrade the stereo, will I need to add a second battery?

2. If the 21 foot is the better route are the engines in the 212 that much better over the 210? The captains chairs (w/ arm rests) on the 212 look like they may be more comfortable than the standard chairs? Is that the case? Is the teak style marine mat vs the marine grade woven mat better in quality or is simply aesthetics? We will be out on night so are the docking lights on the 212 a game changer?

3. Engines - I see the 195S has the 1.8 Super Vortex HO and the 212 has the 1.8. Are these the same engines and did Yamaha just omit the Super Vortex description?

4. Since I'm not looking at purchase before the end of boating season, assuming a boat show may happen, are boat show discounts typically significant?

Sorry for the long post and I'm sure I'll have more questions but thanks for any advise/thoughts/questions.

Phew, lot to unpack there...I can answer a few.

If you think it might be too small then you should really think about going bigger. They all feel a lot smaller when you get them on the water vs looking at the dealer.

The front ladder isn’t all that useful for me, I back into shore if we’re hanging out on the beach and it’s a challenge to board on from in the water.

Second battery on a boat is always a good idea.

SVHO in the 195 has a supercharger, the regular 1.8s do not.

Yes, the 212 engines are that much better.

Seadek is very nice to have and I believe it’s more durable.

Captains chairs are a matter of choice, if your passenger is usually sitting forward then yes it’s more comfortable.

I thought the 195 had docking lights too. Not hard to add them either way.

 

[mwalker4]

You don't mention Tow Vehicle or garage, but those are the two main reason many people stay with the 19'. I have similar situation, two grown kids, just me and the wife and sometimes friends. Its big enough for the limited times I have 6 or over on the boat.

1. Getting 2 engines is the main reason I would upgrade. For example, this year while launching the boat in the spring during debris season, a stick lodge in impeller. Couldn't remove it on the water and limped back to the dock. If I was going on bigger water, I would opt for the 2 engines. But that would need a bigger tow vehicle. With the short Ohio season, I can't justify a more expensive boat and another vehicle.

2. The N/A 1.8L run on regular gas and are less thirsty. Not sure how one SVHO vs 2 N/A 1.8L stack up on maintenance and gas but may be something to think about. I know, I know, noone buys a boat to save money.

3. My wife said Captain chairs was my only option. If you do a lot of empty nester boating its the way to go. If I was packing the boat with kids on a regular basis, the bench seating would probably be best.

I have a 2019 SX190, if I was buying today I would buy the 195s. It wasn't an option when I bought.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Towing, Storage and Size pretty much the beginning. Then Crew. We got our boat this year, a few months ago, and I was looking at the 19's and decided at the last minute on the 21'. Don't regret the decision at all. Boat is and AR210

Use case and body of water is also something you should factor in. Do you need to go 52mph or is 43 mph enough. Are you going on in land lakes, large reservoirs or the great lakes or ocean.

As an example, all the inland lakes around me. S.E. Lower Michigan have speed limits of 40 mph, except a couple and they are at most a mile or so across. So we took that into consideration. Also when we go to the great lakes or Lake St. Clair, in any chop you aren't going over mid 30's regardless of what you can do, it is unfun for the boat and you and really not feasible in a Yamaha unless you put on tabs and are ready for a good pounding.

Twin Engine's pull watersports better, a lot in the low end and they don't cavitate as much if you are pushing it. Plus you have an extra engine if something goes wrong with one. The 1.8's are better, no doubt.

Our decision was based also on price at the time and to determine if it was the right way for us to go long term.

We are probably going to upgrade this winter to a 25', and most likely the AR250. We do a lot more big water excursions without the kids than we thought we would and the extra room and freeboard look good. I would like to do the FSH 25' but no one else likes the look of it..... We are not looking to do heavy surfing and such, just not our gig, so the more advanced boats don't really fit our scenario.

I will also mention that now that we have the boat and the kids now bring friends, had 7 total kids yesterday, that I am glad we went with the 21' boat. We do water sports all day when the kids and friends are aboard,..... I mean like ALL DAY. Barely get a sandwich in or a swim. The boat pulls them no problem loaded with 9 people aboard. Typically, it is 2 adults and 2 kids and each get a friend for 6 and there is a great deal of room.

For the Tr-1's in my boat with 4 aboard and gear we hit 43-45 max. Dependent on conditions. Loaded down yesterday I was hitting 36-37 mph, with Bimini up, coolers, 9 people, and a bunch of backpacks and the portable toilet with full tank of gas - keep in mind 7 where teenage girls so they weren't 200+ lb adults.

Speed is relative. Size is not really, figure the size of boat and then figure what you want to spend and will then pretty much lay bare.

 

[shnknapp]

Thanks for the responses.

1. My third stall has a 7'1/2" opening so I will be storing at the fair grounds over the winter.

2. My current lease on my Sierra is up this December and I'm leaning towards a 2021 Ram Longhorn or Limited so towing either of the options won't be an issue.

3. Top speed isn't really a care of mine as the river we will be on is pretty congested until it meets up with the Mississippi at which point I may go WOT depending on the barge traffic.

Based off the responses I've received and after speaking with my wife, we are leaning towards the 212. Now just need to determine if the tower on the 212s is really worth the extra 3k for us.

Once again, thanks for the advise.

 

[HangOutdoors]

Get the tower. As long as you don't have a clearance problem, it can be used for all sorts of stuff. Also they have a bit better resale and appeal if you decide to get out of it someday. Plus as some else in another thread indicated, getting in and out of the boat from the sides with the tower is a lot better.

 

[shnknapp]

Get the tower. As long as you don't have a clearance problem, it can be used for all sorts of stuff. Also they have a bit better resale and appeal if you decide to get out of it someday. Plus as some else in another thread indicated, getting in and out of the boat from the sides with the is a lot better.

Thank you.That make a lot of sense. I've been going through the forum for a few weeks and you always have some clear and well thought out responses and advise.

 

[HangOutdoors]

LOL, well between this forum, my job and going out on the boat that is about all the time I have. Yard looks like crap so that needs to be done, but I am hoping winter will just take care of it.

 

[mkbcaptain]

Thanks for the responses.

1. My third stall has a 7'1/2" opening so I will be storing at the fair grounds over the winter.

2. My current lease on my Sierra is up this December and I'm leaning towards a 2021 Ram Longhorn or Limited so towing either of the options won't be an issue.

3. Top speed isn't really a care of mine as the river we will be on is pretty congested until it meets up with the Mississippi at which point I may go WOT depending on the barge traffic.

Based off the responses I've received and after speaking with my wife, we are leaning towards the 212. Now just need to determine if the tower on the 212s is really worth the extra 3k for us.

Once again, thanks for the advise.

Get the 212 and the ram 1500 eco diesel! ?

 

[Sean R]

I just upgraded to a new to me 2020 212S from an 2017 AR190. The 212S is F"ing awesome, it jumps out of the water. Don't get me wrong the 190 was a great boat for my family and we didn't put 300 hrs on it for nothing. Its a give and take you'll love a 19" its easy to launch, store and maintain but seven/eight people on board you better be good friends, it gets tight real fast. But the 212S is so nice and did I mention it jumps out of the water.

 

[Foxtrek]

Looking into purchasing a boat and wanted some advice. Last year we purchased 2 Waverunners (EXR and VX Cruiser) and has blast with them. However, we got bored with the lakes around us and started riding the St. Croix River (border of Minnesota and Wisconsin). While I enjoyed being on the river, my wife did not like driving her own machine on the river as the wakes from the Yachts really freaked her out. Anyways she started just riding with me which left us with one machine that wasn't getting used. I also have herniated and repaired my L5 disc twice so I just couldn't risk another herniation. Those two factors led us to talks about selling them and getting into a boat. Well once the Waverunner/Boat shortage hit (Thanks COVID), we sold at a premium with the knowledge that we would have a hard time getting a boat for the rest of the season.

With that being said, we are now starting the process of really looking at what we would like to purchase. As I mentioned, we are close to the St. Croix on the Minnesota side so boating season is basically May - September. Currently going through a Refi with a closing in October so I'm looking to purchase over the winter. I've spent hours looking at the 2020 models and have obviously started looking at the 2021 models. We have narrowed our choices down to the 195S, 210Xor the 212. Obviously quite a difference in price between the 195S and the 212.

This is where I ask for help from the forum. We're both in our early 40s and our daughter is working on her masters so a majority of the time, it will be the two of us and our two large breed dogs. However, on occasion we will have friends (and their kids) with occasional tubing for them. Couple things I'd like advise on:

1. We like the look of the 195S but I wonder if it will be too small for us? Are two engines worth it? Is the lack of a boarding ladder in front something we would miss? When I decided to upgrade the stereo, will I need to add a second battery?

2. If the 21 foot is the better route are the engines in the 212 that much better over the 210? The captains chairs (w/ arm rests) on the 212 look like they may be more comfortable than the standard chairs? Is that the case? Is the teak style marine mat vs the marine grade woven mat better in quality or is simply aesthetics? We will be out on night so are the docking lights on the 212 a game changer?

3. Engines - I see the 195S has the 1.8 Super Vortex HO and the 212 has the 1.8. Are these the same engines and did Yamaha just omit the Super Vortex description?

4. Since I'm not looking at purchase before the end of boating season, assuming a boat show may happen, are boat show discounts typically significant?

Sorry for the long post and I'm sure I'll have more questions but thanks for any advise/thoughts/questions.

Hey there! I am in River Falls and have used the St. Croix so can offer some good, local advice with that river. Go bigger if you plan to use the river often. I recently bought a AR195 and we absolutely love it, BUT we use it on lakes. We took it on the river once and it was okay - but you can definitely feel the waves from those big river cruisers. It got to the point of being scary when we were trying to make our way back to the landing at one point because the waves were so overwhelming with my wife and young kids on board. Hope this helps!

 

[Rammrodd]

Hello from a fellow StCroix/Mississippi boater! This is our first year with our 2019 SX 195. We love every second of it. We haven't had any issue with waves on the river. I grew up on the river and we used to jump waves in my buddy's 97 Exciter, so I'm alos used to the waves. But, that being said, we are already discussing upgrading to a 212s in the next year or 2 to gain the extra capacity. With 2 young boys, they are only going to get bigger and bring people along. I also saw that River Valley has 225 Yamahas coming on order, so there should be plenty to pick from. The old adage is so true, buy your second boat first!

 

[212s]

The advise above is good. If you can swing it, and it fits your requirements, the 212 with the tower is well worth it. The extra thrust from the twin jets makes the boat a rocket, and the wake tower is rock solid and doesn't move at all. We had a regular bimini top on our last boat and while it was great at slower speeds and floating, rough water shaking of the poles always made us think it would snap off or break one day (never did but still). A boat from years ago was performance oriented and had no bimini or top of any kind. Once you have a bimini out in the sun, you will never go without one. You can also consider the AR210 which is the same hull with TR-1 twin engines and also has great performance and a solid tower. We will never buy another boat without a tower and bimini top - worth every penny to us. But everyone has specific needs which is why there are choices out there.

If it was only going to be 2-4 people for you, the 19' models are great and the SVHO engines have plenty of power as the 19' weigh about 1000 lbs less, but if you want to take more people/cargo or crave the extra power of twin engines, the larger 21' models are well worth it. We looked for a while at several brands and models, and we went from a 20' closed bow to a 21' bow rider and the space is huge by comparison with much more seating and space.

I did a mini review of our boat here with updates if you want to read:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/2020-212s-mini-review.27572/

And there's plenty of other posts with details on both the 19 and 21 foot models. No matter what you choose, come here for info, hints, mods, etc. There's just so much info out there.

Did I mention the boat is a rocket with the twins?

 

[Sean R]

??

 

[shnknapp]

Hey there! I am in River Falls and have used the St. Croix so can offer some good, local advice with that river. Go bigger if you plan to use the river often. I recently bought a AR195 and we absolutely love it, BUT we use it on lakes. We took it on the river once and it was okay - but you can definitely feel the waves from those big river cruisers. It got to the point of being scary when we were trying to make our way back to the landing at one point because the waves were so overwhelming with my wife and young kids on board. Hope this helps!

Thanks for your insight on the wake from the cruisers. I spoke to another owner I ran into at the gas station and he indicated they upgraded to a 21 and while it's still a little rocky, the extra 1000 lbs really made a difference compared to the 19.

Hello from a fellow StCroix/Mississippi boater! This is our first year with our 2019 SX 195. We love every second of it. We haven't had any issue with waves on the river. I grew up on the river and we used to jump waves in my buddy's 97 Exciter, so I'm alos used to the waves. But, that being said, we are already discussing upgrading to a 212s in the next year or 2 to gain the extra capacity. With 2 young boys, they are only going to get bigger and bring people along. I also saw that River Valley has 225 Yamahas coming on order, so there should be plenty to pick from. The old adage is so true, buy your second boat first!

Thanks for the imput. Based on the advise I have received so far, I think the 212S is the best option for us. Did you work with the Red Wing River Valley on your boat? I had a great experience with them when I got the Waverunners but unfortunately the sales people that work the boats haven't really seemed that interested in speaking with me. I'm tempted to head over to the Minnetonka location and see if I have better luck.

The advise above is good. If you can swing it, and it fits your requirements, the 212 with the tower is well worth it. The extra thrust from the twin jets makes the boat a rocket, and the wake tower is rock solid and doesn't move at all. We had a regular bimini top on our last boat and while it was great at slower speeds and floating, rough water shaking of the poles always made us think it would snap off or break one day (never did but still). A boat from years ago was performance oriented and had no bimini or top of any kind. Once you have a bimini out in the sun, you will never go without one. You can also consider the AR210 which is the same hull with TR-1 twin engines and also has great performance and a solid tower. We will never buy another boat without a tower and bimini top - worth every penny to us. But everyone has specific needs which is why there are choices out there.

If it was only going to be 2-4 people for you, the 19' models are great and the SVHO engines have plenty of power as the 19' weigh about 1000 lbs less, but if you want to take more people/cargo or crave the extra power of twin engines, the larger 21' models are well worth it. We looked for a while at several brands and models, and we went from a 20' closed bow to a 21' bow rider and the space is huge by comparison with much more seating and space.

I did a mini review of our boat here with updates if you want to read:

https://jetboaters.net/threads/2020-212s-mini-review.27572/

And there's plenty of other posts with details on both the 19 and 21 foot models. No matter what you choose, come here for info, hints, mods, etc. There's just so much info out there.

Did I mention the boat is a rocket with the twins?

Thanks for your input along with the link. Unless something changes, it looks like the 212s is the way to go for our needs. I've looked at the SE and SD and just don't know if I can justify the added cost for those features. Based off the forums, it seems many people have done just fine without the added features.

 

[212s]

Thanks for your input along with the link. Unless something changes, it looks like the 212s is the way to go for our needs. I've looked at the SE and SD and just don't know if I can justify the added cost for those features. Based off the forums, it seems many people have done just fine without the added features.

Funny you mention that...we looked at the 24' models, but my wife said we didn't need the extras or the added room. Coming from an older boat, the new 212s was a huge change with fancy electronics and simple design. We just love it and have no regrets. Now that we have the 212, we feel the 195 would not have fulfilled our needs, and the 240 would have been too much and not needed. We're happy with our choice.

 

[ctyke]

Thanks for the imput. Based on the advise I have received so far, I think the 212S is the best option for us. Did you work with the Red Wing River Valley on your boat? I had a great experience with them when I got the Waverunners but unfortunately the sales people that work the boats haven't really seemed that interested in speaking with me. I'm tempted to head over to the Minnetonka location and see if I have better luck.

I bought from Ref Wing and wasn’t super impressed with their service. next time I’ll look for a dealer in WI.

 

[Rammrodd]

I purchased mine through the Minnetonka location. They have some good sales people out there. They are all boats, unlike the Red Wing location which sells all their power sports products. Their main Yamaha service center is in Red Wing but they can service the boats out of the Minnetonka location as well. Luke Stoker is who I dealt with, and he took care of us.

One side note, this year has been crazy for all boat sales people. Plus this time of year is the product roll out for a lot of manufacturers so the sales people may be in and out of contact as they usually travel this time of year for product introduction.

Good luck!

 

[ctyke]

I purchased mine through the Minnetonka location. They have some good sales people out there. They are all boats, unlike the Red Wing location which sells all their power sports products. Their main Yamaha service center is in Red Wing but they can service the boats out of the Minnetonka location as well. Luke Stoker is who I dealt with, and he took care of us.

One side note, this year has been crazy for all boat sales people. Plus this time of year is the product roll out for a lot of manufacturers so the sales people may be in and out of contact as they usually travel this time of year for product introduction.

Good luck!

Maybe if I upgrade I'll try out that location. I did buy my boat before 2020 went down the tube, but picked it up during the early craziness. Still no excuse for treating people the way they treated me.

 

[Drag]

I’m in the same boat(pun intended). I have a deposit down on a 195s. The three main things I like about the 195s are the engine, the tower, and the 7” screen. But the last couple weeks I’ve been thinking about whether to go up to an AR210 because you can’t add space after the fact. Do the 21’s have significantly more space than the 19’s? I haven’t seen a 21 in person, but looking at the pictures, it doesn’t email that much bigger.