Bigger Boat? Trim Tabs?

[2kwik4u]

This ended up being longer than I anticipated TL;DR at the bottom.

So, we've been boating with our 2017 AR190 since new. Bought in early 2017, and used it all that season. It's been an amazing little boat for us. Handles the family of four really well. It's cheap to own, operate, tow, and store. We've largely been inland lake boaters on smaller lakes in the southeast/Midwest. Southern IN, KY region with vacations to places like Destin, FL, Douglas Lake, TN, Old Hickory Lake, TN, and St. Augustine FL. We moved to Buffalo, NY this summer, and have had the boat out on Lake Erie a few times, as well as Chautauqua Lake twice now.

We are having some REALLY mixed results with these northern lakes. They're much different than what we're used to in terms of shape/size. Obviously Lake Erie is absurdly HUGE compared to the little ponds we used to spend time on. Chautauqua Lake is also an anomaly to us, as it's not overly large, but it's straight and relatively wide. I'm sure that's a function of it being a glacier formed lake, not a man made dammed reservoir. We're finding we're just getting beat to dammit on these lakes with waves and wakes. There's nowhere to "take shelter" from the main lake like we were used to. Previously we might have some rough going getting to the favorite cove/anchor spot, but once there is was relatively still and easy to deal with. Up here, there's no escaping other boats wakes and the wind appears to never stop, creating a constant battle to find "smooth" water. I don't know how any one does watersports up here unless you're on the water at sunrise, even then it feels like it's likely too choppy/wavy to do much of anything.

SO, yesterday was kind of the "final straw" for us. We launched at Buffalo Harbor and went north up the Niagara River. Total route was ~10mi from launch to where we found a spot to anchor. We were absolutely beat to dammit due to water conditions. We never felt in danger, but it certainly wasn't a comfortable ride at much of any level. I have no idea how big the waves were, or how much the current is around that area, but I couldn't find a speed on plane that wouldn't just pound the boat and passengers. When we dropped back to idle speed, we had a few times where the waves were large enough that the rub rail on the nose of the boat was near the waterline. I don't think it was a traffic issue, but just a "this is what the waters like up here" issue.

We're near the end of the season, so finding a solution isn't an emergency. If I was a betting man, we likely only have 1-2 more outings this year, and we want to explore a few other local area lakes before the cold sets in. Doubt we'll be back on Lake Erie/Niagara River again until we find something different to do with the boat. The new house is ~6mi from the ramp to get onto Lake Erie. Would really like to find a way to capitalize on that proximity to water with a solution that lets us get out more often in the summer, especially considering the relatively short season up here.

Do I need to look at trim tabs? I'm worried about scrubbing speed with them deployed, as coming back up river yesterday I was nearly full throttle (7.2k rpm) and only running about 25mph. Boat drops off plane at ~17mph or so, and while I know that goes lower with tabs deployed, I'm not a fan of running that close to the edge of capability. Would trim tabs keep the bow more "tucked" in heavy wavy water like this? Would it make any appreciable difference in ride comfort? Ideally, I would keep the AR190 another few years until we really get sorted here, but if it's the wrong tool for the job all around, I'll move onto replacing it with something more appropriate. At this point, I think a boat upgrade might actually be the easier sell to the "finance committee chairwoman".

Do we need just go to a bigger boat? If so, how much bigger? We like the Yamaha's, but is something like an AR250 enough? Do we need to look at something with an OB, and a deeper vee shape with a flared bow? We're not trying to go out in storms, or honestly, even relatively windy conditions. Is a 255FSH a better option for ride quality over an AR250? I've been a SouthEast/MidWest boater my whole life, and have never really paid much attention to things like deadrise, freeboard, and specs like that, as it never really mattered much before. Goals are going to be something we can still "day boat" on. Not much watersports currently, but want to leave that as an option. Something with a tower (or hard top) is preferred. No idea on budget, as I have no idea what's out there, but not going to spend $250k on anything, honestly $100k would be a stretch I would rather not make. Don't mind used, especially if it's a Yamaha based solution. Still want to be towable, preferably with my current Q7 (7,700lb tow rating), I have no idea what direction to head here, aside from looking at the 25ft Yamaha's.

There you have friends. Help me choose the next step. I'm really looking for ideas and where to go from here. TIA!

TL;DR - We've moved from the SE to the NE and the water is "bigger" than I'm used to. it's beating us up. Do I mod the AR190, or replace. Please discuss and support your answer

 

[TeenGee]

We had a 210 FSH Sport with Lector trim tabs. Upgraded to a 255 FSH with Seakeeper Ride.
With the 210 used to get bounced around and wet from spray every time there was anything more than light chop. The trim tabs only helped removing the heel due to cross wind. A couple of days ago we went off shore in the 255. Moderate chop and 2 foot swells. A couple of times we got sprayed. the full windshield helped. The Seakeepers are great. Well worth the cost. Takes out the heel and puts the bow down a little to soften the ride.
Downside is that we needed to rent a 3/4 ton pick-up truck to make the trip to the Keys. We keep the boat on a lift in our back yard.

 

[Acard7]

I’ve also thought about adding trim tabs to our AR230. Feel like it would make LOTO much smoother on our long trips up or down the lake. Also our home lake is getting rougher and rougher due to the wake surfing popularity. The wife eventually wants a newer boat instead so I know who will win

Hopeful that when we are ready to buy in a couple years the older 250 models will be around 50k used.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

If you think you are wanting to go out on Lake Erie, I definitely would since the ramp is 6 miles, a lot and to stay in your budget I’d look at larger used boats that have big water features, a sharp entry, good bow flare, a dead rise of 20° or more, I think your 19’ boat has a 19° dead rise. There are a lot of good used low hour boats out there with either outboards or I/O’s for under $70K, some lower than $40K, I’ve been looking at these boats for proper overnighting and shoulder seasons use. Some just need a bit of TLC and others are just cream puffs. With an I/O you’d have the ability to have hot and cold running water, heating, and a lot of DC charging power, and if it has a cabin, then a berth and a way to put on eisenglass etc…. if it has a hard top. The Yamahas while super fantastic boats just aren’t designed for big water and a dry ride, you need bow flare for the dry ride, but that comes at a cost of interior deck space in the bow. The higher freeboard is very nice to have in bigger water as well. The challenge I see for you is the tow capacity of your Audi, you may need a used TV with more towing capacity for one of these larger more rough water capable boats.

 

[YamahaForMe]

When the water gets rough, I slow down. I won’t go above 25 MPH unless it’s pretty smooth. If it’s uncomfortable, you will find me going minimum planning speed. I have an SX230 with trim tabs. Tabs don’t make the water smoother.

 

[Daren and Heather]

Most boats have trim tabs from the factory but Yamaha jet boats do not. I have a 21ft with twin engine, but I experience the same thing as you when I’m on the Mississippi River or any body of water with waves. I think you’ll have a similar problem with a stock AR250 too. Assuming you love jet boats and all the benefits that come with them, I would install trim tabs on your current boat first and see the difference. It’s $1,000 but a lot cheaper than your depreciation and cost of buying a new boat. I bought the Lectrotab kit for this reason but haven’t installed it yet because I’ve been on smaller lakes all year.

 

[drewkaree]

Is there anyone in the Test Drive thread here that's around you, or some way for you to even test out a 25' on Lake Erie?

At home, we're in about the same situation as you with Lake Michigan, but there's SO many other lakes around to choose from, and at the lake house, the water choices abound for us. Is there nothing reasonably close? It sounds as if Lake Erie isn't the boating experience you guys typically enjoy, even if you did have a boat that was better suited to it. For what it sounds like you're describing, it sounds like what my experience with Lake Michigan would be. Good for occasional outings, and specific experiences, but not the water I would choose 80-90% of the time.

Looks like Silver Lake is the closest, not sure what 53 miles means or what direction it is from you. Gotta wonder if there's other lakes as well, that just weren't considered for this article, or if there just aren't any in the area

9 Fantastic Recreational Lakes near Buffalo, NY

 

[Babin Farms]

You know my story and the trim tabs are a must in the waters down here.

 

[obrien19]

Wish I had other suggestions, besides larger boat, but for Lake Erie/Lake Ontario, it's mainly about weather/wind on the given day. And on the nicer days, there are going to be more people on the river as well as the lake. I've personally given up on Lake Erie/Niagara River unless it's an early weekday. Weekend on the river get chaotic. I will usually drive out to Wilson, (About an hour from buffalo) to go out on Lake Ontario, less busier, and will drive up from Wilson to Old Fort Niagara, again all depending on weather.

 

[obrien19]

Also, you could try out Rushford Lake and Cuba Lake. They are both smaller, both have boat length requirements and are about 1-1.5 hour trip. My wife and I have gone to both. Haven't had any issues, other than i think both only have one ramp, and ramp traffic can get chaotic. Silver lake, is another small "glacier lake" and can get pretty rough, also there is a wake boat dealership on that lake, so you will be subject to surf waves. My wife didn't enjoy her time in the yamaha on silver lake, but when we went an demo'ed a surf boat she had a better time. We demo'ed a Moomba Kaiyan, so obviously a little bigger, and way heavier boat.

 

[2kwik4u]

Is there anyone in the Test Drive thread here that's around you, or some way for you to even test out a 25' on Lake Erie?

At home, we're in about the same situation as you with Lake Michigan, but there's SO many other lakes around to choose from, and at the lake house, the water choices abound for us. Is there nothing reasonably close? It sounds as if Lake Erie isn't the boating experience you guys typically enjoy, even if you did have a boat that was better suited to it. For what it sounds like you're describing, it sounds like what my experience with Lake Michigan would be. Good for occasional outings, and specific experiences, but not the water I would choose 80-90% of the time.

Looks like Silver Lake is the closest, not sure what 53 miles means or what direction it is from you. Gotta wonder if there's other lakes as well, that just weren't considered for this article, or if there just aren't any in the area

9 Fantastic Recreational Lakes near Buffalo, NY

I love the Yamaha brand and the simplicity of jets. Would like to "stay in the family". Olson Marine is nearby, I'm sure I could get a test drive on an AR250, as well as an FSH252 if I wanted. I think they have both in stock. I'll have to check the test drive thread. No idea why I hadn't already thought about that.

I really love the proximity and clarity in Lake Erie. Beyond that, I think it's likely our best bet to find "boat friends" up here as well. So that's the big draw. 6mi from the house is a big deal as well. We don't feel like we have to "stay out all day" if conditions aren't great. It's an easy pivot to something else if we aren't feeling it.

We've tried Chautauqua lake which is about 60min SE from us. We weren't a huge fan of that lake because of the floating algae, and honestly, the water there wasn't much smoother. Lakes up here are weird, there aren't any coves to hide from the wind/wake.

One of my engineers took his families boat to Silver Lake this past weekend. It's MUCH smaller than we're used to at ~1.5 mi^2. Even the smallest lakes back in KY/IN were around 4.5mi^2. Nervous we would "get bored' on a small lake like that. It's really turning into a goldilocks problem for certain.

We're going to try the Alleghany Reservoir this weekend. Closest ramp looks to be ~90min from the house. It's a man made reservoir, so it looks like it might be more what we're used to. I've had Keuka Lake suggested a number of times as well. It's ~120min from the house to the closest ramp.

Talked with the wife a bit more about it last night. I think we're on the "mod the 190 for a season" plan at the moment. We don't want to toss out the boat we've loved for 8 seasons now just because of 2-3 poor outings in a place we've never experienced before. Need to try all the locations, and all the options before we go nuclear on buy a new boat......we think. Will admit, I was lusting over some Axopar 27ft'ers already .

SO........I think based on this premise, and the resounding response about how trim tabs help. I want to try the Nauticus "smart tabs" again. I put these on our 19ft Rinker, and they made a world of difference. I mostly used them to help plane faster, and to lower the planning speed while tubing. The completely destroyed the wake, so I installed the "trolling brackets" with them, but backwards from intended. This let me pull up and fully retract the tabs when doing watersports, but still use them the rest of the day. They're relatively inexpensive, so if they don't work, it's less of a big deal.

 

[2kwik4u]

Wish I had other suggestions, besides larger boat, but for Lake Erie/Lake Ontario, it's mainly about weather/wind on the given day. And on the nicer days, there are going to be more people on the river as well as the lake. I've personally given up on Lake Erie/Niagara River unless it's an early weekday. Weekend on the river get chaotic. I will usually drive out to Wilson, (About an hour from buffalo) to go out on Lake Ontario, less busier, and will drive up from Wilson to Old Fort Niagara, again all depending on weather.

Also, you could try out Rushford Lake and Cuba Lake. They are both smaller, both have boat length requirements and are about 1-1.5 hour trip. My wife and I have gone to both. Haven't had any issues, other than i think both only have one ramp, and ramp traffic can get chaotic. Silver lake, is another small "glacier lake" and can get pretty rough, also there is a wake boat dealership on that lake, so you will be subject to surf waves. My wife didn't enjoy her time in the yamaha on silver lake, but when we went an demo'ed a surf boat she had a better time. We demo'ed a Moomba Kaiyan, so obviously a little bigger, and way heavier boat.

Thanks for the info. Appreciate the local perspective. While we're sneaking up on the end of the season up here, I think we'll keep the 190 one more summer and see if we can't find a better location for us, or maybe some mods to the 190 to help with the rougher water.

 

[obrien19]

Did you make the trip out to Alleghany Reservoir this past weekend? Was just curious how it was if you did, how you enjoyed it.

 

[2kwik4u]

Did you make the trip out to Alleghany Reservoir this past weekend? Was just curious how it was if you did, how you enjoyed it.

We did not make that trip. Got caught up with house stuff, and then the cool weather up here spurred some other activities for us.

Not sure if we'll make it this year or not. Looks like it's going to rain this weekend, and it's sneaking up on time to toss the boat in storage for the winter.

Speaking of storage. I've heard Olsens Marine will winterize, wrap, and store the boat indoors for a reasonable fee. Any input on that?

 

[obrien19]

We did not make that trip. Got caught up with house stuff, and then the cool weather up here spurred some other activities for us.

Not sure if we'll make it this year or not. Looks like it's going to rain this weekend, and it's sneaking up on time to toss the boat in storage for the winter.

Speaking of storage. I've heard Olsens Marine will winterize, wrap, and store the boat indoors for a reasonable fee. Any input on that?

To have them winterize and store the boat, it was about $900 for last winter. I don't know if they wrap the boat or not, i've never really asked. I do know they are stored indoors though. I've had them store the boat for me every winter since purchasing the boat, but this year I'm undecided on if I will use them this year.

 

[2kwik4u]

To have them winterize and store the boat, it was about $900 for last winter. I don't know if they wrap the boat or not, i've never really asked. I do know they are stored indoors though. I've had them store the boat for me every winter since purchasing the boat, but this year I'm undecided on if I will use them this year.

Any reason to be undecided? Poor service? Not a good value?

I've been paying $400 to have the boat stored all winter in a horse barn in Indiana. That's now 500mi away, so not really feasible. $900 is a little steep I think, but if they are doing things like checking/changing the oil or other such work I can see it being somewhat worth it. Plus the price of real estate up here is more, so I get the price is higher.

First winter in Buffalo and I want the car in the garage. Definitely got to move the boat somewhere, and I prefer indoors. Seems like a logical choice given how little I know about the area.

 

[obrien19]

Any reason to be undecided? Poor service? Not a good value?

I've been paying $400 to have the boat stored all winter in a horse barn in Indiana. That's now 500mi away, so not really feasible. $900 is a little steep I think, but if they are doing things like checking/changing the oil or other such work I can see it being somewhat worth it. Plus the price of real estate up here is more, so I get the price is higher.

First winter in Buffalo and I want the car in the garage. Definitely got to move the boat somewhere, and I prefer indoors. Seems like a logical choice given how little I know about the area.

Sent you a PM to discuss.