Cobra steering, choppy at slow speed

[seventyeight]

@Cobra Jet Steering LLC - I’ve had the cobra steering installed for at least 3 years now on my 2017 AR190. While generally satisfied, I was worried about the wear and tear on steering components as steering at high speed requires quite a bit of muscle. So I decided to try and set the cross bar to 6th and 7th hole so the steering lifts up at speed. While at higher speed the steering feels lighter, at lower speed, maybe higher than +2 no wake setting, and up to approx 15 mph, steering feels very choppy. Almost feel like steering plated bounce up and down.
Any idea, did I do something wrong? I hope this is not considered normal ?
TIA

 

[4wheeldeal]

Sounds like more R&D are needed, mines sloppy too, its wearing the housing. Poor design in my opinion. I was told that the fin doesn't produce drag at high speeds when I first got it...yeah right..

 

[Wake_Dude]

Sounds like more R&D are needed, mines sloppy too, its wearing the housing. Poor design in my opinion. I was told that the fin doesn't produce drag at high speeds when I first got it...yeah right..

That's interesting. What part of your housing is getting the most wear? The reason I ask, is that mine is wearing the housing as well; right where the spring rests on the steering arm. It's beginning to wear a notch in it. Going to file the notch smooth and slip a piece of tubing over the spring portion that contacts the arm.

EDIT: However the above issue, I love the way these fins make the boat handle. It's an upgrade I couldn't live without.

 

[Ronnie]

I’m interested not about the topic generally, there are pros and cons to every boat upgrade/modification, but for Jeff’s response.

 

[Ronnie]

Curious about the impact of installing fins on boats with an articulating keel (aka traditional keel and small rudder). I thought the AK would eliminate the need for supplemental fins.

 

[4wheeldeal]

That's interesting. What part of your housing is getting the most wear? The reason I ask, is that mine is wearing the housing as well; right where the spring rests on the steering arm. It's beginning to wear a notch in it. Going to file the notch smooth and slip a piece of tubing over the spring portion that contacts the arm.

EDIT: However the above issue, I love the way these fins make the boat handle. It's an upgrade I couldn't live without.

same. and it has a lot of slop since new. I keep saying I'm going to take it off but it does help a bit at low speed and if my wife is driving I would like something.

 

[Wake_Dude]

same. and it has a lot of slop since new. I keep saying I'm going to take it off but it does help a bit at low speed and if my wife is driving I would like something.

Same deal here. It's all about the wife and her driving at slow speed, especially since she drives the boat onto the trailer (she can't back down the ramp, lol).

I had a feeling the wear was in the same spot; thanks for confirming. I think it's time I machine a bracket that positively locks the system in place and removes that spring and slop altogether.

 

[Wake_Dude]

Curious about the impact of installing fins on boats with an articulating keel (aka traditional keel and small rudder). I thought the AK would eliminate the need for supplemental fins.

I had that same notion when purchasing the boat; that the articulating keel would get rid of the poor low speed handling stigma of jet boats. Buuuuutttt.......noooope. Was definitely bummed about that. IMO, a system like the Cobra Jet Steering is definitely needed. At least it has helped for us a ton. But as a machinist/engineer, the system does need a little attention. Again, just an opinion.

 

[RobbieO]

Curious about the impact of installing fins on boats with an articulating keel (aka traditional keel and small rudder). I thought the AK would eliminate the need for supplemental fins.

I can't speak to the Cobra Fins as I have the TV's from JBP. They only help at no wake speeds and for docking. They work excellent for that purpose. Other boaters on the forum say you can use the two throttles to manipulate the boat. I agree, but one wrong move can be costly. I rather drive my boat like a car when docking. That's just me.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I have always made myself available to customers and potential customers and after 20 years of making jet boats steer and drivers smile and over12 thousand Yamaha customers, 5 US patents and over 100 patented claims, I feel that if someone really had a question or any valid issue they only had to contact me and I would do my best to resolve that issue or explain that it is not an issue. I have seen this in years gone by and I know exactly what is going on and I am not playing the game.
If you have a slight mark where your spring touches the steering arm forgetaboutit that mark will be there without causing any harm for decades probably way beyond the life of the boat. If it really bothers you place a small piece of rubber tubing commonly found on the lid of 5 gallon buckets over the end of the spring just release it from the fin slide on the rubber and then reload the spring . I always ask for pictures of the installation when someone is thinking something is wrong and I have some real doozies in my collection including fins installed upside down and other things that I have decided to never assume anything and ask for pictures for that reason.
Understand that the nozzles pivot on 2 bolts with stainless steel collars the factory does not use any bushings so it is always a good idea to spray white lithium grease on the pivot points of the nozzle and the reverse gates.
If you do that also spray the cable ends that come out of the cables for the steering and the reverse. I have put over 800 hours on Yamaha nozzles with some serious high speed systems with no issues. I usually spray them every time I change the oil. Remember this the water being forced through that steering nozzle is placing more force on the nozzle than any fins that I make could produce.

 

[4wheeldeal]

I have always made myself available to customers and potential customers and after 20 years of making jet boats steer and drivers smile and over12 thousand Yamaha customers, 5 US patents and over 100 patented claims, I feel that if someone really had a question or any valid issue they only had to contact me and I would do my best to resolve that issue or explain that it is not an issue. I have seen this in years gone by and I know exactly what is going on and I am not playing the game.
If you have a slight mark where your spring touches the steering arm forgetaboutit that mark will be there without causing any harm for decades probably way beyond the life of the boat. If it really bothers you place a small piece of rubber tubing commonly found on the lid of 5 gallon buckets over the end of the spring just release it from the fin slide on the rubber and then reload the spring . I always ask for pictures of the installation when someone is thinking something is wrong and I have some real doozies in my collection including fins installed upside down and other things that I have decided to never assume anything and ask for pictures for that reason.
Understand that the nozzles pivot on 2 bolts with stainless steel collars the factory does not use any bushings so it is always a good idea to spray white lithium grease on the pivot points of the nozzle and the reverse gates.
If you do that also spray the cable ends that come out of the cables for the steering and the reverse. I have put over 800 hours on Yamaha nozzles with some serious high speed systems with no issues. I usually spray them every time I change the oil. Remember this the water being forced through that steering nozzle is placing more force on the nozzle than any fins that I make could produce.

So no fix I'm guessing

 

[Ronnie]

I had that same notion when purchasing the boat; that the articulating keel would get rid of the poor low speed handling stigma of jet boats. Buuuuutttt.......noooope. Was definitely bummed about that. IMO, a system like the Cobra Jet Steering is definitely needed. At least it has helped for us a ton. But as a machinist/engineer, the system does need a little attention. Again, just an opinion.

I heard the same about the first boats that had an AK but assumed that yamaha tuned/redesigned the AK to be more effective over the years.

I just took a look at my cobra fin/thrust diverter set-ups and don’t see any premature wear but understand that we may have different reverse buckets,Steering nozzles, etc. so our fins may be different or touch different stock parts as well.

 

[RobbieO]

I heard the same about the first boats that had an AK but assumed that yamaha tuned/redesigned the AK to be more effective over the years.

I just took a look at my cobra fin/thrust diverter set-ups and don’t see any premature wear but understand that we may have different reverse buckets,Steering nozzles, etc. so our fins may be different or touch different stock parts as well.

View attachment 154465View attachment 154466

Looks good...even the patented stickers are holding up well...

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Now Ronnie here is the game, using your pictures , look where the spring contacts the steering arm next to where the steering cable attaches and see the very slight " if any" mark in the 1 inch thick 1/2 inch wide arm and you will see why , there is no problem and why I am wondering why someone would even suggest it is a problem in the end it is nonsense, and intentional .

 

[Wake_Dude]

Now Ronnie here is the game, using your pictures , look where the spring contacts the steering arm next to where the steering cable attaches and see the very slight " if any" mark in the 1 inch thick 1/2 inch wide arm and you will see why , there is no problem and why I am wondering why someone would even suggest it is a problem in the end it is nonsense, and intentional .

Nonsense? Hardly. I'm picking up my boat from the hangar tomorrow and I'll take pics. It's not just a "mark". IMO, it's significant groove.

If you had a clue, you'd take something like this very seriously. I sure hope you have good liability insurance. A gouge, or "mark" as you call it, can turn into a stress crack. What happens when all steering is lost at high speed due to the failure? That's right, people get hurt. Someone like myself can spot problems like this and fix them myself. Most cannot identify the issue and won't see the inevitable failure. So while you won't expect a lawsuit from me, it might be in your future from another party. Just friendly advice.......

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Well all these years and no problem yet not even a gouge but I have not seen your nozzle or your installation . There is really no reason for any concern as this very spring has been in use for over a decade with no issues. Not a single one.

 

[Wake_Dude]

Well all these years and no problem yet not even a gouge but I have not seen your nozzle or your installation . There is really no reason for any concern as this very spring has been in use for over a decade with no issues. Not a single one.

Perhaps it's a non-issue. Who knows? Maybe I received a shit casting. In any event, you'll see the pics tomorrow. For what it's worth, when it comes to mechanical stuff, I program/machine continuous 4th/5axis parts on Moris/DMGs, and Doosans. Typically holding +/- 0.0001 tolerances on many parts for both aerospace and semi-conductor industries. It's very, VERY, hard to pull the wool over my eyes. Just saying. I see things most don't.

 

[BigAbe75]

So no fix I'm guessing

I guess I’m still not understanding the issue. Looking forward to seeing a pic.

 

[4wheeldeal]

I asked right after install why its got so much slop, if I remeber correct he said it was normal and will not effect anything...

 

[motomandan]

Typical. Ask a general question and get blasted instead of trying to help. I spent over 15 yrs in the boat business. NEVER would I consider buying anything from CJ due to the poor attitude and people skills exhibited on this forum!