Cold hard start

[danzr1]

Last summer my portside engine became harder to start everytime I went out. I would turn the key, and it would almost fire up, then stop, usually it took 5 attempts or more, and would be fine for the day. The longer I left it unused, the harder it would be to start. Also, I would need to turn the key completely off between attempts. Any tips? I'm thinking fuel injection pump? Started up fine the rest of the day.

 

[AZMark]

Start with new spark plugs if you haven’t tried that. One motor worse than the other is probably something else but it’s weird how much plugs can impact performance sometimes.

 

[danzr1]

Yes, I had put new plugs in, no chamge.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

-How many hours on the engines?
-Has the boat been used in salt water, fresh water, both?
-Have you been running ethanol laced gasoline without treating it at every fill up?
-If you suspect a fuel pump, have you tried swapping the hoses on the fuel tank so that the starboard side engine uses the port side pump ?
-When was the last time you ran a tank of gas fuel system cleaner through ? Techron is the best on the market so you might start there as an easy fix.
-Does this engine require valve lash check / adjustments? Has that ever been done?
-Have you gone through all of the electrical connections, quick connector type, for that engine, pulled them apart and checked for corrosion, cleaned with contact cleaner and dielectric grease on them? Same goes with the fuses in the fuse block.
-Check the grounding on each engine as well for tightness and or corrosion.
-Does this engine have coil packs for the plugs? If so have you tried swapping those coil packs with the other engine?

 

[danzr1]

300 hours, Salt water, no to ethanol, I haven't tried anything other than fix the clean out hatch switch, wasn't being depressed enough, now to think of it, perhaps it's corroded? It only happens when sitting for a week or longer, so that's why I'm thinking fuel or pump, and the ignition switch needs to be completely turned off and back on every attempt, otherwise it won't even sputter.

It's shrink wrapped, so I will be soon taking it out of storage and will start looking at that list you sent. Problem is once it starts, it it will start up fine right after. Could that eliminate some items likes valve needing to be adjusted? I definitely should have tried a fuel system cleaner first.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

300 hours, Salt water, no to ethanol, I haven't tried anything other than fix the clean out hatch switch, wasn't being depressed enough, now to think of it, perhaps it's corroded? It only happens when sitting for a week or longer, so that's why I'm thinking fuel or pump, and the ignition switch needs to be completely turned off and back on every attempt, otherwise it won't even sputter.

It's shrink wrapped, so I will be soon taking it out of storage and will start looking at that list you sent. Problem is once it starts, it it will start up fine right after. Could that eliminate some items likes valve needing to be adjusted? I definitely should have tried a fuel system cleaner first.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Good on you for running the non ethanol fuel! Do you put stabilizer in your fuel and run it through the engine before wrapping it? Is the fuel tank left full for the time it is stored?

So, if you don’t turn the key off, will the starter still work? E.G., the starter motor turns the engine over but it won’t fire? If so that makes me think that either the fuel pump isn’t running-it’s been my experience thus far that I cannot hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned on like other power sports equipment but I haven’t pulled the access hatch and tried to listen for it either, on my dirt bikes and on my vehicles in the past I could hear the fuel pump run when I put the key in the run position, in the case of my dirt bikes I just give the starter a bump and I can hear it run for a few seconds-that’s why I suggest swapping the fuel lines at the pumps to either confirm or eliminate the fuel pump. There could be an issue with the key switch, the safety cutoff switch for the clean out hatch. What about the safety lanyard switch? Have you exercised that switch by pulling the tab and then reinserting I a few times?

Sometimes a tight valve hard start condition will go away after the engine is warmed up. If the engine starts right up the next day after a cold soak then thst is probably not it. The valve lash check should still be done if it’s on the list.

 

[danzr1]

I'll insert the key, turn on, yes I can't hear the pump either. I'll turn to start it, it will turn over, fire for a split second. If I try to turn it over again it will not fire up no matter how long. I'll turn the key completely off, try again, another small sputter. I'll fo this several times before it stays running. I did use a fuel preserver, and had about a half a tank, but had to siphon a bunch out as we had a hurricane in the fall, and I needed fuel for the generator. Lol. I'll check all the switches, I thought for sure it was the clean out hatch switch, as it stopped working, but I epoxied a little on the hatch to make the switch depress more, engine symptoms never changed really. Just slowly got worse as the summer went on. Taking more attempts to start. Problem is once it starts, it's fine, so it may take days to figure out. I do have a yamaha diagnostic tool I read injectors can be tested, so I'll try that out.

 

[AZMark]

Switching the fuel lines is a great idea @FSH 210 Sport.

If you do that before you start you should know right away since your problem will switch engines and you won’t have to spend days diagnosing.

 

[danzr1]

Great idea. What's the easiest way to swap?

 

[AZMark]

I don’t know where they go into the engines on yours. Either there if you can get to them and they are long enough, or at the fuel tank side where they should be a lot closer together.

 

[danzr1]

Ok, I ran the yamaha diagnostic tool and tested each injector. The fuel pump seemed to run fine. Here are the results. I ran the same test on the other engine, with exact same result.
Injector 1 quiet clicking
injector 2 loud clicking
Injector 3 quiet clicking
Injector 4 loud clicking

I swapped injectors 1 and 2 same symptoms. This time injector 3 didn't work, tapped.it and it worked. I think a cleaning if possible, or just replace the injectors maybe? Worth trying an injector cleaner?


I'm unsure if louder is more worn, or a good thing. Doing more research but I thought I'd post in case someone knows that answer.

 

[Tacolpastor]

Hi, I am experiencing the same problem on my 2007 sx210, with only one of the engines. Did you find a solution? I am going to have the valves adjusted.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Ok, I ran the yamaha diagnostic tool and tested each injector. The fuel pump seemed to run fine. Here are the results. I ran the same test on the other engine, with exact same result.
Injector 1 quiet clicking
injector 2 loud clicking
Injector 3 quiet clicking
Injector 4 loud clicking

I swapped injectors 1 and 2 same symptoms. This time injector 3 didn't work, tapped.it and it worked. I think a cleaning if possible, or just replace the injectors maybe? Worth trying an injector cleaner?


I'm unsure if louder is more worn, or a good thing. Doing more research but I thought I'd post in case someone knows that answer.

-Did you run the same tests on the other engine as a benchmark?
-Hearing the fuel pump is well and good, but checking the fuel pressure would be a good idea.
-Since you swapped the wiring to the injectors and got the same results there’s an issue with those injectors, again, run the test on the other engine and see what happens. It could be that you have some sticky injectors. I’d run a tank full of fuel through it with a heavy dose of Techron it.
-Speaking of swapping, did you ever try swapping fuel pumps to see if that made any difference?
-Did you ever check the valve lash?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hi, I am experiencing the same problem on my 2007 sx210, with only one of the engines. Did you find a solution? I am going to have the valves adjusted.

Well @danzr1hasnt been around since May 28th… hopefully he is blissfully enjoying his boat and forgot about these issues.

Having the valve lash at least checked when it’s due is pretty important in a solid lifter / roller / bucket over shim type valve train is important.

Have you checked the rest of the things in this thread? What’s the stats on your boat based on the original set of questions I asked?

One of the easiest things to do is add a clean up dosage of Techron fuel system cleaner and then fill the tank with fresh fuel and then go out and burn that tank of fuel.

 

[danzr1]

Hey sorry for no update! I had removed all injectors and cleaned them. Diy injector cleaner method using brake cleaner with tubing modified to fit the injector, and applying voltage to it on and off. Boat has been starting with no issues. I also added some injector cleaner to the tank as well.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Hey sorry for no update! I had removed all injectors and cleaned them. Diy injector cleaner method using brake cleaner with tubing modified to fit the injector, and applying voltage to it on and off. Boat has been starting with no issues. I also added some injector cleaner to the tank as well.

Thank you for checking back in with your success ! Hope you are having an excellent boating season so far!

There you go @Tacolpastor !

 

[danzr1]

The hard cold starts have come back. I had ordered new injectors, and 2 of them were bad right of the package. I cleaned and put 2 of my old ones back. I still get a short stumble trying to start it, take about 5 tries before it stays running. I think I swapped the coils, but I may try that again. I may try Techron, but the boat won't be in the water for a few days. I'm not seeing a lot of info on the valve adjustment online. Fuel pump seems fine, as I have tested it with the Yamaha diagnostic tool I have.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The hard cold starts have come back. I had ordered new injectors, and 2 of them were bad right of the package. I cleaned and put 2 of my old ones back. I still get a short stumble trying to start it, take about 5 tries before it stays running. I think I swapped the coils, but I may try that again. I may try Techron, but the boat won't be in the water for a few days. I'm not seeing a lot of info on the valve adjustment online. Fuel pump seems fine, as I have tested it with the Yamaha diagnostic tool I have.

Are you buying your fuel at the same station ?

 

[danzr1]

Are you buying your fuel at the same station ?

Yes, but the other side engine is fine.

What I did earlier, is I removed the clean out hatch switch and clean its internals. It seemed a bit dirty and is a bit stuck. I recalled today that I did have an issue with that switch where the hatch wasn't activating the switch fully, and had glued in some epoxy to push it down further when closed. I did realize today, I could have just adjusted the thread on the switch, I also did that. It starts fine now, but I really need to wait a day for 2 to really test it as I started it this morning. I will report back.

 

[Tacolpastor]

Have you tried cleaning the top end by fogging with seafoam or something similar? I bet your valves are crusted up with carbon. I was having similar issues and did a top end cleaning and now I have trouble free startups (knock on wood).