Different take on how to create a better surf wave

[Nauticajetter]

Hey guys, so I have been pondering making the boat more capable for wake surfing. General consensus seems to be that you need a lot of weight and something to clean up the wave ( wake wedge) to really make it enjoyable. I just keep thinking there has to be an easier way other then installing and flipping the wedge to clean things up and switch sides. From everything I have read it seems like when you turn the jets you can clean up the wave for one side. The downside is that you are now doing circles and we all want to go straight line. What if instead of a surf gate that extends out sideways to delay convergence we rotate something 90 degrees and create a drag on one side of the boat. We would then be forced to turn the jets slightly to keep the boat moving straight forward. Am I crazy or would this not clean up one side of the wave and allow more thrust at a slower speed ( bigger wave?) One could install an actuator on each side and be able to raise and lower to switch sides. Someone with more understanding of thermodynamics please straighten me out or congratulate me. Ha ha

 

[jcyamaharider]

Hey guys, so I have been pondering making the boat more capable for wake surfing. General consensus seems to be that you need a lot of weight and something to clean up the wave ( wake wedge) to really make it enjoyable. I just keep thinking there has to be an easier way other then installing and flipping the wedge to clean things up and switch sides. From everything I have read it seems like when you turn the jets you can clean up the wave for one side. The downside is that you are now doing circles and we all want to go straight line. What if instead of a surf gate that extends out sideways to delay convergence we rotate something 90 degrees and create a drag on one side of the boat. We would then be forced to turn the jets slightly to keep the boat moving straight forward. Am I crazy or would this not clean up one side of the wave and allow more thrust at a slower speed ( bigger wave?) One could install an actuator on each side and be able to raise and lower to switch sides. Someone with more understanding of thermodynamics please straighten me out or congratulate me. Ha ha

The Wake Wedge is not a convergence type system like the others, it is a jet deflection device which is a must for wake surfing behind a Yamaha. Without that you are not cleaning up the face you are surfing on.

 

[Blenderhead]

I think the theory makes sense. I am also ready to invest into anything that will make my wave better.

So, really the question is.... once the disturbance from the jets are cleaned up (ala Wake Wedge).... how do you integrate a convergence wedge that will be far enough in the water to actually be effective. Being that the only "flat" side of the boat that is underwater is mostly horizontal... maybe a suction system that secures on that surface that points out sideways?

 

[Mainah]

I like that folks are trying to think up different things. IMO the only thing that has not been done and should be tried is a trim nozzle and or place diverter. This is something on my someday list but hopefully someone will give it a try sooner.

 

[jcyamaharider]

I think you are thinking backwards and it would lift the boat out of the water because unlike a power wedge ( Malibu ) there would be nothing holding the boat down into the water.

 

[jcyamaharider]

I like that folks are trying to think up different things. IMO the only thing that has not been done and should be tried is a trim nozzle and or place diverter. This is something on my someday list but hopefully someone will give it a try sooner.

It has been tried......... Didn't work.

 

[Mainah]

Thanks. Glad someone at least tried it.

 

[scokill]

In addition to deflecting the jet stream you can't cheat physics. The wave is about displacing water. The 23' purpose built boats weigh between 6,000 and 7,000 lbs (or more) and some have 3,000 lbs (or more) of ballast built in....not to mention optimized hull shape and the ideal propulsion (in addition to any other devices for tuning the wake) and seating for a small army.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Thanks. Glad someone at least tried it.

Yeah we did a pump wedge and it just didn't have an noticeable effects.

 

[Nauticajetter]

Sorry @jcyamaharider if I made it sound like I wanted to create a delayed convergence system, I was just stating that the device would mimic something like a surf gate only mounted 90 degrees. My idea was just to create drag on one side of the boat so you could turn the jets slightly to clean up the jet wash and still maintain keeping the boat going straight.

 

[jcyamaharider]

I think @trace did something like the 90 degree down flap to his 212SS, if I remember correctly. Maybe he can chime in......

 

[Englewoodcowboy]

I think the key to getting a better wake with our boats is trying to find a way to reduce list. This past weekend I had a boat load and we decided to load my stock ballast, with the boat level at surf speed and weighted down evenly it was making a very impressive wake face, problem was if I turned the boat it really would get larger on the inside turn. I surfed it some and could feel a pocket developing but my boat does not have a cruise control system yet and we were more focused on the tom foolery however I was liking what we were seeing by happenstance. My thoughts were something along the lines of the new trim tab system we have seen advertised, but make it so it can be bolted to existing tabs, would be nice to remove when not out for surfing so the tabs can be used as designed. It would also then be very possible to add more weight evenly and mostly below decks to make the hull sink down for displacing. I a.so think some kind of wedge would still be required to deflect surf side jet wash down. Clean up the face.... just spitballing ideas at the moment.

 

[jcyamaharider]

Everyboat that I have setup or told to setup, you have to list the boat to get a good wake. Our hulls are like older centurion boats, you had to list the crap out of those boats but once you did they were wake machines! We have a deeper V hull and all of the new style surf boats have flatter back portions of the hull to make a nice wake, the list of our boat puts the flatter portion of our hull into the water better to make a better surf surface.

 

[Jgorm]

What if you mounted a wake wedge (pull down fin thing) on the side of the boat. You could mount it at a slight angle so you need to counteract the rudder effect and shoot the jets off to the side. A place diverter would be bad ass. It looks like they angle down quite a bit. (And you could throw bad ass twin roster tails)

 

[swatski]

Don't mean to be negative, but I'm not sure about that.

My thoughts were something along the lines of the new trim tab system we have seen advertised, but make it so it can be bolted to existing tabs, would be nice to remove when not out for surfing so the tabs can be used as designed.

I have made some ten different tab attachments trying to rip off the wakemakers branded surf tabs, nothing works. The only one that showed minimal promise is so large you would have to take it off for cruising - there is very limited enough room under the swim deck for tabs/actuators to retract. I have posted soemwhere.

And a "list" seems the only way to get a surfable wake - in pretty much all cases of a surfable wake behind a yamaha I've seen.

We have a deeper V hull and all of the new style surf boats have flatter back portions of the hull to make a nice wake, the list of our boat puts the flatter portion of our hull into the water better to make a better surf surface.

I don't think so, not the new 240s:

I think those new hulls, while awesome in rough water especially when combined with trim tabs, are a disaster for surfing.
I have not yet seen an awesome surf wake behind a new (2015+) 24ft. Has anyone? I think the 212s are a bit more forgiving, with less "keel".

What if you mounted a wake wedge (pull down fin thing) on the side of the boat.

Several members here tried delayed convergence, and it just does not work, could be the hull or the twin pumps or both.
Diverters will also not work, will beat the jet wash but lift the stern.

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[swatski]

This is a tough issue in general. I think that for now - ton of ballast, list and a wake wedge/flap - are the only things that work/show promise. Am I missing anything?

Advertising those new 242x as surfing boats is a joke. Even the factory commercial is fake - running with a ton of aftermarket ballast and a pro surfer who can BARELY find a sweet spot and keep up.

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[haknslash]

I don't think the 21' and 24' keel is any different. They share the same part numbers for the rudder (item 20) and the retaining plate (item 21) that is mounted to the hull and fits the same keel profile.

 

[jcyamaharider]

@swatski I have set up many new style boats with the keel and they have all done what I wanted them to do and expected them to do. Your boat would not be any different. Your hull is a deeper V then surf boat.

 

[ar240owner]

We set up a 2015 with awesome results , it was a surf machine !!! List the boat !! And his ballast wasn't that much , jerry do you remember how much weight we had in mikes boat ?

 

[Englewoodcowboy]

It was a thought and I did not consider the fact that we are a Deep V vs most surf boats being a modified V so yes, we would have to list to get that side flatter in the water for the wake. How much ballast and placement is needed on a '15 212X to surf? I will have to buy the surf wedge but that is down the road, right now I am wanting to plumb in ballast, hide as much as I can and what I cannot, make it as easy as possible to fill etc. Then my next purchase will be the wedge followed by the Perfect Pass.