Do not use CCA wire in your boat.......when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong!

[redthumper9]

During the winter of 2013/2014, I set out to build a nice stereo system in my AR240. Some of you have followed my thread during the build and have seen it progress from a budget-minded big system.......to me blowing my original budget and continuing to go bigger. A year and a half ago, when I bought my power wire, I figured I could get by with using CCA (copper coated aluminum). The price was at least half of tinned OFC and me, trying to be budget minded, figured I would at least get the length of my ownership out of it. On the way back to the ramp the other day, I saw a friend and his family fishing on a dock nearby. Of course he said, "hey go down to that next corner and turn it up so I can hear how it sounds from far away" (about 500 yards). I did.....and about 10 seconds into the demo......complete audio shut down. The next day, I checked all fuses and connections. I noticed a lot of corrosion on one of my distribution blocks near my Perko switch. When I loosened the set screw to remove it, it was frozen in place. Put a little more elbow grease on it and literally pulled a 1/0 wire in half. Let this be a lesson to me and to any considering the use of CCA. Don't do it! Needless to say, tinned OFC is on the way......to the tune of another $400 on top of the $200 I spent a year and a half ago. On a side note, for the 10 seconds my buddy heard it, he said it sounded incredible at distance.......even said the bass was very pronounced that far away.

 

[David Analog]

In your case you were aware of exactly what you were buying at the time. But, there are many on-line wire deals that prey on those looking to save a buck and do not accurately represent what they are selling, or totally misrepresent what they are selling.
Oftentimes it's not all copper and oftentimes it is not the wire gauge that is stated.
If the cost of a spool is one half the price and the weight of the spool is one half of another wire, either you are not getting copper or you are not getting the gauge of wire that is stated. And there is no one to police this.

 

[redthumper9]

@David Analog ......I did know what I was buying and I even did some research on it. Would I buy CCA for a budget car audio system?.....maybe. But never again for my boat. I never thought I would see that level of corrosion in that short of time.

.....and since I have you on the hook @David Analog ......I have a battery question. I currently and running a simple set up. Two group 29 deep cycles wired together in parallel for my main bank, and one interstate group 27 for basically a back up. I have a nice on board shore charger that is plugged in weekly. It is simple and has worked great for my application. I am thinking of going even bigger with the stereo this winter so I want to add some battery run time. Would you recommend going the 6v route? I was thinking of (4) Trojan golf cart batteries or maybe even interstate golf cart batteries. Or are there some particular 12v batteries that you would recommend?

 

[David Analog]

How much of it was corrosion and how much of it was heat degradation.
It will take more CCA wire to pass the same current as efficiently so you are never ahead buying the cheap stuff.
But again, so many people are not afforded the choice that you made simply because they were totally unaware of what they were getting in both the construction and the true gauge of wire. Many on-line companies simply don't divulge these details.
Speaking to others, you have to be careful and pay attention to red's warning.

 

[David Analog]

Batteries?
Red,
You already have an idea of the amount of playtime you get with your existing system power while not falling below 11.8 volts.
So it will be easy enough to apply that ratio of amp/hours to the power of the new system in order to suit your new battery needs.
You certainly don't need to upgrade your starting battery if it's in good condition.
I like the 6 volt concept. Durable. Built to take many deep cycles when marine deep cycle batteries can still be sort of a hybrid.
Series batteries sum voltage but do not sum amp/hours....opposite of a parallel relationship.
In the end, amp/hours are the focus for this application.
If a Trojan and Interstate battery have essentially the same dimensions and weight at a similar cost then I don't see a big difference in the performance/value equation. Certainly Trojan has the reputation in 6 volt batteries, which has to be earned.
Beyond that, I'm not concerned with either. Of name brand batteries, I've never met a bad one. Just bad battery usage and maintenance routines by owners.
If you increase the battery capacity then you should increase the shore power charger capacity to match.

 

[Addicted]

I run 2ea 6v batteries to power all my accessories, and a group 31 for starting (likely overkill). I have a decent size stereo (4ea Jl6.5's, 4ea JL 7.7's, 1ea JL sub and 2ea REV 10's), and run 3 ballast pumps regularly. I run for hours on end and have never had issue with power or reliability after 3.5 years. I do plug my boat in to AC at the end of every day though. I have installed 6v batteries in many projects over the years and have always been happy. To me, they are much more tolerant to constant discharge/re-charge cycles.

 

[Earmark Marine]

Do yourself a favor and never use CCA wire in anything, vehicle or boat. Over the years I have seen many customers with a variety of problems caused by cheap "Internet wire". Aluminum is a terrible conductor, it doesn't belong in your power/ground wire. Aluminum will be very inefficient, reduce current capacity and increase heat. It's simply dangerous if you are running any serious amount of power.

Many cheap wires say things like "4 gauge" or "4 gage" or sometimes even "4AWG" (American Wire Gauge) but there is nothing keeping the Chinese junk wire manufacturers honest. If you aren't buying wire of a known quality based on the name brand then I wouldn't buy it without holding it in my hand and cutting a piece off to inspect it. We see "4 gauge" wire all the time that is (a) approximately 8-10 gauge and (b) copper clad aluminum not copper. It's a fire hazard.

These pics are from a customer's vehicle that bought cheap Internet wire and the wire became the fuse. The cheap junk wire was unable to carry the current that the system needed. The wire got so hot that it melted and charred inside the plastic jacket and burned through. The cheap fuse holder got so hot that it melted, but the fuse didn't blow because the fuse was the only high quality part in the power supply chain. The fuse won't blow unless the current draw is greater than the fuse's rated capacity, and that didn't happen. But the wire was clearly NOT 4AWG copper wire (looks like about 8 gauge CCA wire from what's left) and the wire was the weak link.

You don't save money with cheap wire, you just run the risk of burning something to the ground (or water). Would you put mismatched retread tires with plugs in them on your trailer?








Odin

 

[David Analog]

Very revealing write-up Odin. And thank you Red for bringing this up and saving a lot of people heart burn.
It should be pointed out that the greatest heat emanates from the terminations, screw downs, and crimped connectors.
Once a wire is beginning to char or a termination is beginning to arc, the resistance skyrockets and the heat that's generated radically multiplies. It quickly becomes a wicked cycle.
Many times the problem isn't measurable with a multimeter because a) the multimeter uses a tiny bit of current for its DCR measurement, and b) the high resistance and poor conductivity isn't exposed without a much higher current level.
Imagine the amplifier power loss from a poor voltage supply. A loss of just a few volts can mean a 50% power loss. At that moment you're not saving money, you're burning power.

 

[Englewoodcowboy]

I will also add there is a difference in Marine wire vs Automotive wire and it is in the strand count. Marine requires a finer strand for a more flexible cable to withstand the boat moving and vibration that is not present in automotive. My #8 cables I bought for my sub panel in the boat are as soft and flexible as rope, compare that to a #8 automotive battery cable that you bend it and it stays in that position. Over time copper getting fatigued will tool harden and snap at the connector or pinch point, this is why marine grade has a much higher strand count and costs more.

 

[Addicted]

I find that welding lead works very well. I have used this product for 3 stereo builds and many battery bank upgrades. It is copper, very flexible, has a high strand count, and the jacket is very thick. I have never had an issue with it in the 15 years that it has been my go to product. Yes, it is expensive but this is one of the last places to save money on a boat.

 

[Speedling]

So how the heck do you know what you have? I have a lot of stuff from installed stereos in the past. A lot of monster brand wire as I had longer lasting installs with it and customers knew the name.

 

[redthumper9]

Thanks @Earmark Marine and @David Analog and the others that chimed in ......I received a portion of my replacement wire in the mail last week and the first thing I noticed was how much heavier the tinned OFC was than the CCA. As soon as it's not 6000 degrees one day here in the southeast, I'm going to go ahead and make my new run from the battery compartment to the D block by the amplifiers. I'll likely have to order some more to re wire the batteries, but wanted to make a decision on how my batteries were going to be set up next year. I'm liking the (4) 6v in a series/parallel.....with each battery being 225ah, that should give me 450ah correct?

 

[David Analog]

Correct. Series sums voltage but not amp/hours. Parallel sums amp/hours but not voltage.

 

[KXCam22]

I avoid aluminum wire in all my installations except hi amp utility-type overhead lines. On those you need the light weight of the aluminum. Aluminum has a characteristic called cold creep where the wire shrinks away from pressure caused by a clamped or crimped connection. It also forms an oxide coating. Both combine to create a high resistance connection. This causes heat and the subsequent melting of the connection, often followed by a fire of some type. I am not sure about the copper coated but I would think that the oxide would be happening under the coating. You can tell aluminum wire by its weight. Use welding cable. Cam.