Ease of surfing setup?

[Ribs77]

Hey all,

I know there are lots of threads about surfing and surf setups with these boats, but on a fundamental level I'm trying to gauge if it's the right choice for me.

I've been looking at getting something in the 190/210 range for years. I see the aftermarket products like wake shapers, fat sacks, etc... then I look at boats that have automatic ballast systems and think "damn, that would probably be nice."

It came to a head recently because I saw a good price on a used 190 in my area. In the ballpark of $24k. Meanwhile, I've gone down the road of looking at $90k Moombas and such.

Something I've done in the past (with motorcycles) is buy something that's not quite what I want, and then spend a lot of time trying to make it what I want. I don't want to do that here. So let me tell you exactly what I want, and I would be extremely grateful if folks could point me in the right direction.

What I want:
Good family boat with simple systems that's easy to maintain.
Ability to bring 8 people comfortably. 10+ would be a bonus.
Towing capability for tubes and wakeboarders, etc... - I know this is going to be possible pretty much out of the box based on my research.
Wake creation ability for wake surfing without lots of setup each time.

I think the last one is the big question mark. I'm a bit older and feel like wake surfing is more my speed than wakeboarding. I've done it in the past and really enjoyed it. I don't need the most elite wave in the world, but something that will push me and my friends ropeless I'd say is the bare minimum. I'm 180 pounds, but I do have friends that are in the 215-220 range.

I don't like the idea of large plastic sacks of water sitting on the swim platform. It feels like too much work. If I were to use just a wake shaper and several friends all sitting on one side of the boat, would that likely do the trick?

I'm also a bit wary of bad fuel economy, but I suppose spending $70k less on the boat buys a lot of gas ?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Cambo]

A few things that keep me from getting a dedicated wakeboard / surf boat

Running mostly in shallow bay water 2 to 4 feet
Salt water is not great for these boats
Towing the boat from NY to Vermont jet boats are less weight
My driveway is on a hill the Momba type boats have a trailer that hangs low My yamaha trailer misses by inches
The amount of time doing water sports is much less than seat time chilling out on the boat and beach
You need the 23 to 25 foot model if you want the best results for water sports and seating capacity

I do like wakeboarding more if you have a good driver, auto speed control and calm flat water. Wake surfing pictures look cool but it gets boring and the slightest change in water depth or boat wakes and the wave diminishes . Snowboarding all winter drives me to want to carve all over while on the wake board

 

[Ribs77]

A few things that keep me from getting a dedicated wakeboard / surf boat

Running mostly in shallow bay water 2 to 4 feet
Salt water is not great for these boats
Towing the boat from NY to Vermont jet boats are less weight
My driveway is on a hill the Momba type boats have a trailer that hangs low My yamaha trailer misses by inches
The amount of time doing water sports is much less than seat time chilling out on the boat and beach
You need the 23 to 25 foot model if you want the best results for water sports and seating capacity

I do like wakeboarding more if you have a good driver, auto speed control and calm flat water. Wake surfing pictures look cool but it gets boring and the slightest change in water depth or boat wakes and the wave diminishes . Snowboarding all winter drives me to want to carve all over while on the wake board

Interesting, thank you for the perspective!

I would be mostly running my boat in Lake Washington, where the water is pretty deep (over 100 feet on average). I live a few blocks from this lake, so towing is not a huge concern, although I might tow it a few hours to another property for winter storage.

Storage is a concern, but my driveway is definitely not steep. (The main concern is that my wife doesn't want me to put it there ?)

What's the deal with salt water? What about mooring the boat in fresh water? I see a lot about flushing the engine out after runs - is that only a salt water thing or do you have to do it all the time?

My main concern with wakeboarding is wiping out at high speed. I have had knee injuries in the past and I'm recovering from a ruptured achilles. I think wake surfing will be doable, but I'm not sure about catching an edge at high speed on a wakeboard!

 

[RightStuff]

Having recently moved on from our beloved Yamaha AR210 to a Moomba Mojo I might be uniquely qualified to comment and help you with some answers. ?

How much do you plan on using this boat, and how much of that time do you intend to be doing watersports? There is a tipping point where a wake boat makes more sense here over a Yamaha. If you are going to be casual about it, save the $$ and go Yamaha. If you see this being a big part of your 'lifestyle' going forward you should look to invest in a ore dedicated wake boat. No easy answer here based on you not having much experience yet, so tough to say one way or the other... One thing you have going for you is the used boat market is softening a bit due to overall demand, but also it's getting closer to the off-season for many parts of the US. Increased chance of getting a good deal on a used boat (Yamaha or wake boat).

"Wake creation ability for wake surfing without lots of setup each time. " <- this right here is what eventually drove us to a wake boat. The setup and ballast dump/'go home' time is next to nothing now on the Moomba. In roughly 7-10 mins we are up and surfing and most of that time is getting ropes/boards/jackets/etc. all set, hardly any waiting time.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

 

[Ribs77]

Having recently moved on from our beloved Yamaha AR210 to a Moomba Mojo I might be uniquely qualified to comment and help you with some answers. ?

How much do you plan on using this boat, and how much of that time do you intend to be doing watersports? There is a tipping point where a wake boat makes more sense here over a Yamaha. If you are going to be casual about it, save the $$ and go Yamaha. If you see this being a big part of your 'lifestyle' going forward you should look to invest in a ore dedicated wake boat. No easy answer here based on you not having much experience yet, so tough to say one way or the other... One thing you have going for you is the used boat market is softening a bit due to overall demand, but also it's getting closer to the off-season for many parts of the US. Increased chance of getting a good deal on a used boat (Yamaha or wake boat).

"Wake creation ability for wake surfing without lots of setup each time. " <- this right here is what eventually drove us to a wake boat. The setup and ballast dump/'go home' time is next to nothing now on the Moomba. In roughly 7-10 mins we are up and surfing and most of that time is getting ropes/boards/jackets/etc. all set, hardly any waiting time.

Let me know if you have any more questions!

Thank you! I do have a few other questions.

"The setup and ballast dump/'go home' time is next to nothing now on the Moomba." Can you describe the process on the Yamaha? Once you were up and running, how did the wake compare?

Would also love to know how the post-run cleanup/flush/whatever compares between the Yamaha and Moomba.

What about fuel economy?

And to answer your questions:

I don't know how much I'd use it. I'd like to think a LOT, being close to the lake and all. But part of that probably depends on what kind of moorage/storage I secure. If the boat is on the lake ready to go, I expect we will use it quite a bit. Probably at least once a week during the peak season, which would be roughly May-September.

As for the time spent doing water sports... probably half? I expect to spend some of the time just cruising around the lake or parked for a swim somewhere. And then some of the time with kids and friends in tubes, doing wake sports, etc. Maybe 50/50ish?

 

[RightStuff]

"The setup and ballast dump/'go home' time is next to nothing now on the Moomba." Can you describe the process on the Yamaha? Once you were up and running, how did the wake compare?

Pretty significant difference in wave size/quality. Moomba pic is stock setup (no add'l ballast, 3 people in the boat), Yamaha was running a 800 lb bag under the port rear seat in this pic and the same 3 people in the boat. I sometimes added a 650lb bag strapped to the swim platform, but that was only when I had more time (and patience) to set that bag up. That made for a better wave, but took more time.

Would also love to know how the post-run cleanup/flush/whatever compares between the Yamaha and Moomba.

Assume you mean after watersports, much less time/effort on a wake boat. Just hit the button to go home (or flip the switches to drain) and the pumps start dumping ballast and you can do whatever else you want until it's empty. Can even slowly drive away to wherever you are going next. I was close to putting in an automated system of bags/pumps in my Yamaha to help here, but eventually just decided to save my money and put that towards the new boat. Writing was on the wall that we were upgrading when we got to that point.

What about fuel economy?

V8s are thirsty... ? But really depends on how much towing you do on the water, pushing 4k of ballast at ~ 11mph will suck some gas. Hard to compare one to the other, but the wake boat will be more expensive (esp. ones that ask for premium!).

I don't know how much I'd use it. I'd like to think a LOT, being close to the lake and all. But part of that probably depends on what kind of moorage/storage I secure. If the boat is on the lake ready to go, I expect we will use it quite a bit. Probably at least once a week during the peak season, which would be roughly May-September.

As for the time spent doing water sports... probably half? I expect to spend some of the time just cruising around the lake or parked for a swim somewhere. And then some of the time with kids and friends in tubes, doing wake sports, etc. Maybe 50/50ish?

Your season isn't too different than ours in MN. We get out a lot and trailer the boat to the same lake (most of the time), at last 1-2 times a week and generally plan our other life activities around being able to boat as much as we can. Boating is expensive if you don't use what you bought and it just sits there un-used. Hope that helps...

 

[URODAVE]

Just purchased a 222xd yamaha. We have enjoyed wake surfing with no external ballast (fat sack). In addition to the factory ballast I have put a few lead weight ballast bags in the back compartments (hidden). Human ballast helps as well. Certainly not as good as a dedicated wake surf boat but the Yamaha is more of an all purpose boat. So far we have been very happy with the boat! Good luck!

 

[Ribs77]

Just purchased a 222xd yamaha. We have enjoyed wake surfing with no external ballast (fat sack). In addition to the factory ballast I have put a few lead weight ballast bags in the back compartments (hidden). Human ballast helps as well. Certainly not as good as a dedicated wake surf boat but the Yamaha is more of an all purpose boat. So far we have been very happy with the boat! Good luck!

I love the look of the 222xd! I guess the boat to compare it to might be a Moomba Mondo? Similar price ballpark at least. Looks like the fuel efficiency is actually about the same as well. (I mainly only care about this because I'd like to have decent range on the boat - would like to take it in the sound occasionally to visit Blake Island, Anderson, etc...)

 

[BigAbe75]

What about the forward drive boats? The thing I would miss about a surf boat is the ability to cruise 30 or so mph for a distance. I rarely go faster than that. But, can these boats go that fast for a 2hr cruise? Are the forward drive boats able to?

 

[Ribs77]

I would imagine that if you dump the ballast you'd be able to cruise at 30-40mph, no?

I have piloted a friend's older Nautique and it surely could do that.

 

[BigAbe75]

I would imagine that if you dump the ballast you'd be able to cruise at 30-40mph, no?

I have piloted a friend's older Nautique and it surely could do that.

Talked to a friend last week about his new mastercraft x26 that he got at beginning of last season. (‘21 model I think). I mentioned that we just got back from lunch at the north end of the lake. 40 minute cruise.

He said, yeah we don’t do that anymore. Sure do miss it. WOT was about 32-34 I think he said and the boat just doesn’t like going that fast. He said his normal cruise is about 28, but even that isn’t super often.

 

[chatt230]

I bought a 230 at the beginning of this season. It’s been a great boat, and a great intro into boating, but the surf wave leaves something to be desired. The setup for me is 30+ minutes and carefully instructing my driver how to drive because I have no perfect pass. Once I get behind the boat, the wave has push, but I find most of it is close to the boat, and you need to learn to pump back into the wave quickly on these boats. Once you learn to get up and go ropeless, you’ll want to move around and play more, and I think that’s what it comes down to whether you love watersports or the Yamaha more. Personally, I’m choosing watersports and looking for a surf boat this winter. Decide what’s most important to you: the many advantages of Yamaha (I don’t need to say then plenty of people will chime in), or the ease of use of a watersports specific boat. I’ll also add, if you goofy foot riders and regular riders in your group, you’ll be spending a lot of time on setup in a Yamaha. That said, Yamaha makes a great boat and you’ll love whatever you get!

 

[Ribs77]

Just this morning I saw a video of someone surfing on a 190 wave that looked great ?

I suppose the reality is that I won't be able to afford a 6 figure boat in the near future, but I could get something in the 30-40k range for next season.

Maybe it boils down to this - will I be able to set up a 190/2/5 type boat with a wave that will be adequate for a novice 180-pound surfer without spending tons of extra money or time to do so? I'm very much sold on all other aspects of jet boats and Yamaha in particular.

 

[chatt230]

Just this morning I saw a video of someone surfing on a 190 wave that looked great ?

I suppose the reality is that I won't be able to afford a 6 figure boat in the near future, but I could get something in the 30-40k range for next season.

Maybe it boils down to this - will I be able to set up a 190/2/5 type boat with a wave that will be adequate for a novice 180-pound surfer without spending tons of extra money or time to do so? I'm very much sold on all other aspects of jet boats and Yamaha in particular.

The 190 will produce the cleanest wave because of its single engine. But if you go with Yamaha, I would set aside the money up front for a Wake Booster or Gantlin Wake Wedge (if you go bigger than 190), and at least 1000 pounds of ballast. Just accept that you’ll have to take some time to set up and you’ll get a surfable wave and I actually think it’s a better wave to learn on because it’s not intimidating and once you find the push you’ll learn quick. Most people here recommend a longer wakeboard construction board, but I prefer more premium boards that are a little big for me for some extra float. I’be been through 10 boards this summer and the Doomswell Neo is one of my favorite surf style boards for the wave I get. Other surf style boards I’ve enjoyed are the Inpand Surfer Flyboy and the Lib Tech Air’n. I haven’t had many skim style boards behind the boat, but I had an O’Brien Space Dust, and it was great for a cheaper board. It allows you to ride far back in the wave but it is a slippery board compared to a surf style. I guess the bottom line is get yourself some ballast, a Yamaha specific shaping device (if possible), and a good board and have fun.

 

[Ribs77]

Haha, found my own thread here while browsing through different surf setup threads.

I ended up getting a '21 AR195. Been out surfing many times on it now but have yet to get the wave dialed to get ropeless.

I have a ~450 transom bag, but it's not the "stepped" style - it's just a flat bag. I usually put it on the port side (I'm regular foot) on the top step. Should I try the lower step? I also recently got a 375lb. ski locker bag.

Last weekend I had three 200-lb guys on the boat, plus both of those bags (transom port side and ski locker) but was not able to go ropeless. I know it's not a board or skill issue, as I've gone ropeless on the wave behind a different boat.

I'm going to try again tonight with 6 people in the boat (although 3 of them are kids who only weigh 100-120 lbs each). Probably try the bag on the lower transom. Any other tips or suggestions? I don't have RideSteady, which may be the next step.

The two boards I have are a 5'3" Liquid Force FSH (which is a bit heavy and slow, but was able to go ropeless on a different boat) and a 4'10" Connelly Baja. The latter is much lighter and feels faster, so I've been using it more.

edit: I'm 6'1", 175 lbs.

 

[Ribs77]

Here's a video of me last night. Was able to briefly go ropeless on one run (5 seconds, lol) but surfed with slack in the rope at times on other runs.

I had a 400lb bag on the port side of the swim platform and passengers weighing a total of probably 700 lbs in the boat. Full tank of gas. I hadn't filled the ski locker bag, however, as I didn't have a lot of time before sunset. I'm thinking if that had been full (extra 375 lbs) it might have lengthened the wave a bit and I could have had an easier time. Thoughts? Advice?

Edit: Around 1:30 to 2:00 I get some good slack in the rope.

 

[Maccam26]

Here's a video of me last night. Was able to briefly go ropeless on one run (5 seconds, lol) but surfed with slack in the rope at times on other runs.

I had a 400lb bag on the port side of the swim platform and passengers weighing a total of probably 700 lbs in the boat. Full tank of gas. I hadn't filled the ski locker bag, however, as I didn't have a lot of time before sunset. I'm thinking if that had been full (extra 375 lbs) it might have lengthened the wave a bit and I could have had an easier time. Thoughts? Advice?

Edit: Around 1:30 to 2:00 I get some good slack in the rope.

Best wave I was able to get was with 650lb fat sac and Wakebooster by Yamaha. As well as the Yamaha cube 155lb in the bow to lengthen the pocket

 

[jetboatjay]

@Ribs77 you are close. Maybe slow the boat down to 10-11 mph and see if that builds the wave a bit. Also, depending on how crowded your waterway is, try slightly turning port side the whole time. Sounds crazy, but it works.

We made a wake wedge for the starboard side of the boat. Helped clean up the top of the wave a little. You can find the project details on this site.

Good luck and great surfing.

 

[Ribs77]

I've got the Yamaha WakeBooster on the way (even though it's pretty much the end of the season here) - I may get a chance to try it out before next season.

I think the magic formula will be 5+ adults (or equivalent, like 3 adults, 4 kids, etc), the 450 lb transon bag, the 375 lb locker bag and the wake booster

We can sometimes get away with a slight turn to port, but on nice days the lake is packed so it's not as feasible.

Edit: I'll also probably save up for RideSteady during the off-season...

 

[Ribs77]

Tried the Wake Booster last night. 3 adults, 4 kids in boat. 400lb ballast on swim platform surf side. I didn't fill the locker ballast bag because kids were getting impatient (after their long turns tubing).

Was not able to go ropeless. I was able to get a tiny bit of slack in the rope at times, but maybe not even as good as some previous runs. The booster seemed to help but I think I still need more weight. Should have filled the locker ballast. It's not a skill issue - I have gone ropeless on other boats with beefier waves.

The wave at times was noticeably sharper and taller but not long enough. I tried moving kids to the bow to see if it would lengthen, but it didn't help much.

Not sure if I can get such a robust crew (of people in the boat) with the season almost over here. Gonna be a long winter thinking about how to make this work next year :|