Float Plane - Danger?!

[tracerrx]

So we were out on the lake doing some skiing this weekend (small 400 acre lake in FL). The skier dropped and I was turning back to pick them up when a FLOAT PLANE dropped out of the low cloud cover and landed on the lake!

The guy came within 25 yards of my downed skier (wearing a neon pink vest). Tried to raise the guy on VHF 09/16 but he didn't answer. He did several more takeoff's and landing on the far side of the lake afterwards. No one (I had 4 adults + kids) noticed this guy doing any overflights checking for traffic etc.

I would think that it would just be common courtesy to overfly the lake and check for traffic prior to landing, and make a call out on VHF 09/16 declaring your intentions prior to landing.

I did grab his tail number file a complaint with the FAA as I feel that this guy came way to close (however I havent heard anything back from them), and if I remember correctly all planes have VHF radios, and when on water are considered vessels, therefore he's required to monitor 09/16 right?

 

[tracerrx]

IMG_0040

• tracerrx
• Aug 14, 2017

IMG_0044

• tracerrx
• Aug 14, 2017

 

[ar240owner]

Wow !!! That would piss me off if a plane landed that close to a guy in the water !!

 

[tracerrx]

I was/am livid... Way too close in my opinion. Called the FAA hotline and they said they were too busy, send an email.

But if there are any pilots out there i'm curious if this guy just used poor judgement or if he actually broke regs? From his tail number and a lookup online this plane is registered to a company that does float plane flight training.

 

[KXCam22]

The pilot is probably inexperienced. We regularly interact with float planes and waterbombers. They generally do a downwind pass to show intent then do a 180 and land. Water bombers we treat like a fire truck and all boats stop and let him pick up a load. Cam

 

[tracerrx]

The pilot is probably inexperienced. We regularly interact with float planes and waterbombers. They generally do a downwind pass to show intent then do a 180 and land. Water bombers we treat like a fire truck and all boats stop and let him pick up a load. Cam

Thats my experience in the past as well, a quick flyover to show intent then land. This guy just popped out of low cloud cover and landed... I cant find anything in FAA regs requiring them to perform a flyover first or announce intent on VHF 9/16 prior to landing however.

 

[tracerrx]

Contacted the USCG Southeast station via twitter and this was their response:

"The Coast Guard does not require float planes to have or monitor a VHF radio. If you would like additional information for float plane requirements the FAA maybe able to assit you further. Also, if a plane is making way on the water, recreational traffic is supposed to give way. Please let us know if you require any additional information."​

How are they not required to monitor VHF if they are equipped with VHF? From the USCG website:

"In general, any vessel equipped with a VHF marine radiotelephone (whether voluntarily or required to) must maintain a watch on channel 16 (156.800 MHz) whenever the radiotelephone is not being used to communicate.

Source: FCC 47 CFR §§ 80.148, 80.310, NTIA Manual 8.2.29.6.c(2)(e), ITU RR 31.18, 52.244"
​

 

[Bruce]

Are float planes equipped with marine VHF radios? My limited understanding is that they have radios that may be able talk on our frequencies but are not used like simple marine VHF radios.

 

[biglar155]

Not all VHF is VHF as you know it.

Civil Aircraft use 118 - 137 MHz and guard on 121.5. I believe marine channels start somewhere around 156 MHz. My guess is that an aircraft radio won't go that high. (Also, aircraft don't use pre-set channels, they tune to a frequency.)

Even if he did have a marine VHF, I believe that it would technically be illegal for him to transmit on that band while in the air (since it is defined as for ship-to-ship use) so it wouldn't have done any good anyway.

Sounds like you had a good scare. Not fun.

Since it's clear you won't be getting any satisfaction from the local governing body any time soon, if you are concerened that this situation will repeat itself it might be a good idea for you to get a hand-held aircraft VHF and tune to the local "traffic" frequency for your area. If he was doing it right, he should have been calling out his intentions LONG before touchdown and you'd have had a chance to high-tail it out of there.

 

[RightStuff]

That was my understanding too... It's recommended that pilots make a low pass in the area they intend to land in, but it's not a law/requirement that they have to make that pass first.

Maybe you can look up the tail numbers (I can't read them all from your pictures) and get some contact info from that. You can look up the plane's registry into on the FAA's website:http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

 

[tracerrx]

That was my understanding too... It's recommended that pilots make a low pass in the area they intend to land in, but it's not a law/requirement that they have to make that pass first.

Maybe you can look up the tail numbers (I can't read them all from your pictures) and get some contact info from that. You can look up the plane's registry into on the FAA's website:http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNum_Inquiry.aspx

I have the tail number in other pics, and reported incident to FAA (via email). The registry is for a Float Flight Training school. Ughhh

 

[Scottintexas]

this looks like the facility that rents the plane, I googled sebring, fl float plane rental,
the last picture on their home page looks to have the same tail number,
maybe contact them directly
http://www.adventureairinc.com/

 

[tracerrx]

Not all VHF is VHF as you know it.

Civil Aircraft use 118 - 137 MHz and guard on 121.5. I believe marine channels start somewhere around 156 MHz. My guess is that an aircraft radio won't go that high. (Also, aircraft don't use pre-set channels, they tune to a frequency.)

Even if he did have a marine VHF, I believe that it would technically be illegal for him to transmit on that band while in the air (since it is defined as for ship-to-ship use) so it wouldn't have done any good anyway.

Sounds like you had a good scare. Not fun.

Since it's clear you won't be getting any satisfaction from the local governing body any time soon, if you are concerened that this situation will repeat itself it might be a good idea for you to get a hand-held aircraft VHF and tune to the local "traffic" frequency for your area. If he was doing it right, he should have been calling out his intentions LONG before touchdown and you'd have had a chance to high-tail it out of there.

Thats helpfull, I was assuming that their VHF were full spectrum. But its ship to ship when hes on the water, they are technically considered a boat by law when floating.

Weve been recreating on this lake for years without this every happening... Definitely scared the $$$$ out of all of us... I know its hard to imagine but with the low cloud cover there was no time at all to see him coming.

 

[tracerrx]

this looks like the facility that rents the plane, I googled sebring, fl float plane rental,
the last picture on their home page looks to have the same tail number,
maybe contact them directly

Thats definitely the company, was trying to spare them the public linking!

 

[Coheeba]

If a plane is operating on the water it is considered a "vessel" and has to abide by the CG "rules of the road".

 

[tracerrx]

If a plane is operating on the water it is considered a "vessel" and has to abide by the CG "rules of the road".

Agree, but apparently theres no CG rules stating "dont land in top of a skier or boat"

 

[Coheeba]

Per CG Navigation Rules

RULE 18 Responsibilities Between Vessels

(e) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.

 

[tracerrx]

Per CG Navigation Rules

RULE 18 Responsibilities Between Vessels

(e) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this Part.

Thanks! I wasnt able to locate that. Will tweet it back to USCG station southeast.

 

[itsdgm]

I would be just as upset as you are @tracerrx that would've scared the hell out of me.

I agree with @Scottintexas, if you're not getting any response from the FAA, call the planes owner directly. They're the ones who are renting to the guy. I'd imagine they'd be just as pissed off when they find out what he's doing with their airplane. Follow up the phone call with emails to document your complaint. Make sure whoever you talk to realizes that you're making an "electronic paper trail". That way if the complaints add up and god forbid something bad happens in the future, they will have no way to state that they had no idea of how that pilot uses their equipment. To them, he's only one customer, so they can easily shut him down if he generates enough complaints. It it's quite possible that they could be shut down if he has a massive accident and they were proven to know score hand how irresponsible he was using their equipment.

At the very least, maybe they'll educate the pilot on how to safely operate the airplane when making water landings.

 

[tracerrx]

@itsdgm thanks, have been tracking it all electronically. Im very surprised however at the lack of response from the FAA.