For the battery experts… Lithium??

[Farny]

Lots of posts and threads on here about batteries, adding a second bank, acr etc. Got a lot of good info from the experts on here in the past - lots of debate about lithium also, found this video which was very interesting.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The biggest thing that jumps out is the bit about cycles, the vid host states discharging the battery to 80-100%, you can do that with a LiFePO4 / LFP battery, but if you do that with a FLA / AGM battery its toast. The lead acid batteries can only be discharged to 50% of their amp hour rating with degradation to the number of life cycles. My personal view on cycles is that a cycle is every you charge the battery, depth of discharge / DOD to levels below 80% has the largest cyclical impact.

The question of charging with automotIve style alternators does not apply to our boats. Automotive style chargers use a variable magnetic field / flux density, to adjust the output, our boats use a PMG / PMA or permanent magnet alternator wherein the output is fixed at 100% output all the time and the regulation is done by the rectifier / regulator module which is water cooled on our boats because there is no air flow to cool them, looking at our boats Rec/Reg you can see the air cooling fins on them but since no air flow is available they have a base plate that is water cooled. Therefore, our boats charging systems are well suited to charging the LFP batteries. In boats with automotive style alternators one just needs to use a lead acid start battery, and then use a DC to DC charger to charge the lithium batteries to prevent overloading said automotive style alternators. On our boats making a small modification to the DVSR is all that is required, that’s covered in the link below.

I did a lot of research before I put LFP batteries in my boat, for the trolling and for the house battery, but, I left the starter battery as a AGM battery. The reason for the AGM battery is because at the time I made the conversion to LFP, FLA / AGM batteries are superior to LFP batteries in the amount of discharge current, something the vid host was not limited to, as the BMS system on deep cycle LFP batteries limits their discharge rate to around 100 amps continuous and 200 amps for a few seconds. The vid host did mention amperage / voltage restrictions during charging. Lead acid batteries do not have this limitation, and even the LFP start batteries have a limit of time on their 1000 CCA output. I have no plans on changing out my start battery from AGM to LFP.

As far as the fire hazard goes, LFP batteries are not subject to this, PERIOD. The NMC batteries used in most cars and busses and energy storage facilities have this hazard but also have a higher energy storage density than LFP. It should be noted that Tesla is moving away from NMC and is going to LFP batteries, unlike the other electric car manufacturers.

If you take the time to read through the linked thread below you’ll see all the research I did and the contributions of other members here for fact finding about LFP batteries.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/conversion-to-lifepo-batteries.35834/

I don’t see how the video you reinforces the don’t use in our boats, at least LFP which is the only chemistry available for boats and RV’s, or other boats for that matter. With a couple of very minor modifications LFP batteries are a great addition to our boats.

Ive been running my LFP batteries for a couple of seasons now and the batteries have performed very well.


P.S. There is also the human side of NMC, most Cobalt comes from the DRC or Democratic Republic of the Congo where “artisanal” mining is used, which is mining by hand, a cute way to hide that fact. Most of these mines are owned by china, have zero protection for the human miners of which a large percentage are children down to age four, and zero environmental policies in place. By the way all cell phone batteries use cobalt, all the cell phone companies say they use “non conflict cobalt“ which is bullshit since all the cobalt gets mixed together. As I said to my General Manager years ago when the city council was pushing us towards buying a 32 Megawatt hour battery, “I am not willing to help sentence a lot of sub Saharan African youths to not seeing their 18th birthday due to cobalt poisoning“. She agreed and we did not move forward with that project.

 

[Farny]

The biggest thing that jumps out is the bit about cycles, the vid host states discharging the battery to 80-100%, you can do that with a LiFePO4 / LFP battery, but if you do that with a FLA / AGM battery its toast. The lead acid batteries can only be discharged to 50% of their amp hour rating with degradation to the number of life cycles. My personal view on cycles is that a cycle is every you charge the battery, depth of discharge / DOD to levels below 80% has the largest cyclical impact.

The question of charging with automotIve style alternators does not apply to our boats. Automotive style chargers use a variable magnetic field / flux density, to adjust the output, our boats use a PMG / PMA or permanent magnet alternator wherein the output is fixed at 100% output all the time and the regulation is done by the rectifier / regulator module which is water cooled on our boats because there is no air flow to cool them, looking at our boats Rec/Reg you can see the air cooling fins on them but since no air flow is available they have a base plate that is water cooled. Therefore, our boats charging systems are well suited to charging the LFP batteries. In boats with automotive style alternators one just needs to use a lead acid start battery, and then use a DC to DC charger to charge the lithium batteries to prevent overloading said automotive style alternators. On our boats making a small modification to the DVSR is all that is required, that’s covered in the link below.

I did a lot of research before I put LFP batteries in my boat, for the trolling and for the house battery, but, I left the starter battery as a AGM battery. The reason for the AGM battery is because at the time I made the conversion to LFP, FLA / AGM batteries are superior to LFP batteries in the amount of discharge current, something the vid host was not limited to, as the BMS system on deep cycle LFP batteries limits their discharge rate to around 100 amps continuous and 200 amps for a few seconds. The vid host did mention amperage / voltage restrictions during charging. Lead acid batteries do not have this limitation, and even the LFP start batteries have a limit of time on their 1000 CCA output. I have no plans on changing out my start battery from AGM to LFP.

As far as the fire hazard goes, LFP batteries are not subject to this, PERIOD. The NMC batteries used in most cars and busses and energy storage facilities have this hazard but also have a higher energy storage density than LFP. It should be noted that Tesla is moving away from NMC and is going to LFP batteries, unlike the other electric car manufacturers.

If you take the time to read through the linked thread below you’ll see all the research I did and the contributions of other members here for fact finding about LFP batteries.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/conversion-to-lifepo-batteries.35834/

I don’t see how the video you reinforces the don’t use in our boats, at least LFP which is the only chemistry available for boats and RV’s, or other boats for that matter. With a couple of very minor modifications LFP batteries are a great addition to our boats.

Ive been running my LFP batteries for a couple of seasons now and the batteries have performed very well.


P.S. There is also the human side of NMC, most Cobalt comes from the DRC or Democratic Republic of the Congo where “artisanal” mining is used, which is mining by hand, a cute way to hide that fact. Most of these mines are owned by china, have zero protection for the human miners of which a large percentage are children down to age four, and zero environmental policies in place. By the way all cell phone batteries use cobalt, all the cell phone companies say they use “non conflict cobalt“ which is bullshit since all the cobalt gets mixed together. As I said to my General Manager years ago when the city council was pushing us towards buying a 32 Megawatt hour battery, “I am not willing to help sentence a lot of sub Saharan African youths to not seeing their 18th birthday due to cobalt poisoning“. She agreed and we did not move forward with that project.

Thank you! Just the kind of response I was hoping for- very thorough ?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thank you! Just the kind of response I was hoping for- very thorough ?

You are welcome ! I put a lot of energy, see what I did there?, into that thread and wanted to share all the results that I found.

I also noted that the vid host mentioned that you get what you pay for, and in the case of these LFP (man I like that acronym its way easier to type) batteries its the BMS, especially in relationship to temperature. I did like that he mentioned the bit about the batteries performance below freezing and having to be heated to be charged, but, he was incorrect about on aspect of charging them below freezing, you can charge them between 15-32* but only at .1C or 1/10th the rated Ah, where as normally you can charge them at .5C or 50% of the rated Ah. Below 15* if a charge current is applied to a LFP battery or any other Li battery chemistry it will destroy the battery. While lead acid batteries can be charged at any temp, that is why a good battery charger will have temperature compensation, higher voltage in cold temps and lower voltage in hot temps for FLA or AGM batteries but is not something you want to do with Li batteries. Also, LFP and NMC batteries will have reduced storage so to speak in freezing temps unless the battery is heated. If you watch the Morgans on the Move vid I included you will see how they used the internally heated Battle Born batteries which power the heaters with the battery itself to get more Ah’s out of the battery.

Speaking of BMS and cold temps, at the time of my research there were only two internally heated batteries available, ReLion and Battle Born. ReLion used the charging current to power the heaters, which is similar to the way the high end battery in the video you linked, and BB used internally powered heaters but externally activated. The other thing that led me to using the BB batteries is that the heated BB batteries could be hooked up in series, whereas the ReLion could not. Another big shout out to @Can0n11 for bringing that to my attention! As I had missed that initially, because that info was buried on a back page of ReLions web site. For a lot of folks they don’t need the heated batteries, but I do as it gets so cold in the shoulder seasons here, it is not uncommon for over night temps to be in the teens at the beginning and end of the seasons here.

The other big thing that I found out shortly after cancelling my ReLion order, ( which was a circuitous ordeal since while it appears you are ordering from them direct but instead went through one of their dealers even though you place the order through them, and a roughly $4000 charge showed up on my cc that I did not recognize) was that BB batteries are almost entirely made in the USA. To the best of my knowledge now BB only has one small printed circuit board made in china, the rest is all done here, in Nevada, including the Lithium itself. BB’s tech staff are the csr’s that you deal with directly. Relion as the only other company that had a staffed tech service dept that answered the phone. There was no way I was making that kind of purchase and not be able to talk to their tech staff and not just sales like Dakota Lithium. In the end you get what you pay for.

I see that you have a centurion boat, I’m going to guess a V8 powered ski or wake boat? You can easily go with a LFP house battery, you just need to use a DC to DC charger. I would look at Victron Energy’s web site and see what they have. The Minnkota one is only good for 10A’s per battery, but I wonder if the Victron energy one has a higher output? I use the Victron Energy IP67 120 AC ones for my trolling motor batteries and they charge at 25A’s, BB is a Victron dealer and will help you set those chargers up through the bluetooth connection, super easy, I can also give you the parameters. In my option the Victron stuff is the best, Bluetooth visibility and all.

 

[Farny]

You are welcome ! I put a lot of energy, see what I did there?, into that thread and wanted to share all the results that I found.

I also noted that the vid host mentioned that you get what you pay for, and in the case of these LFP (man I like that acronym its way easier to type) batteries its the BMS, especially in relationship to temperature. I did like that he mentioned the bit about the batteries performance below freezing and having to be heated to be charged, but, he was incorrect about on aspect of charging them below freezing, you can charge them between 15-32* but only at .1C or 1/10th the rated Ah, where as normally you can charge them at .5C or 50% of the rated Ah. Below 15* if a charge current is applied to a LFP battery or any other Li battery chemistry it will destroy the battery. While lead acid batteries can be charged at any temp, that is why a good battery charger will have temperature compensation, higher voltage in cold temps and lower voltage in hot temps for FLA or AGM batteries but is not something you want to do with Li batteries. Also, LFP and NMC batteries will have reduced storage so to speak in freezing temps unless the battery is heated. If you watch the Morgans on the Move vid I included you will see how they used the internally heated Battle Born batteries which power the heaters with the battery itself to get more Ah’s out of the battery.

Speaking of BMS and cold temps, at the time of my research there were only two internally heated batteries available, ReLion and Battle Born. ReLion used the charging current to power the heaters, which is similar to the way the high end battery in the video you linked, and BB used internally powered heaters but externally activated. The other thing that led me to using the BB batteries is that the heated BB batteries could be hooked up in series, whereas the ReLion could not. Another big shout out to @Can0n11 for bringing that to my attention! As I had missed that initially, because that info was buried on a back page of ReLions web site. For a lot of folks they don’t need the heated batteries, but I do as it gets so cold in the shoulder seasons here, it is not uncommon for over night temps to be in the teens at the beginning and end of the seasons here.

The other big thing that I found out shortly after cancelling my ReLion order, ( which was a circuitous ordeal since while it appears you are ordering from them direct but instead went through one of their dealers even though you place the order through them, and a roughly $4000 charge showed up on my cc that I did not recognize) was that BB batteries are almost entirely made in the USA. To the best of my knowledge now BB only has one small printed circuit board made in china, the rest is all done here, in Nevada, including the Lithium itself. BB’s tech staff are the csr’s that you deal with directly. Relion as the only other company that had a staffed tech service dept that answered the phone. There was no way I was making that kind of purchase and not be able to talk to their tech staff and not just sales like Dakota Lithium. In the end you get what you pay for.

I see that you have a centurion boat, I’m going to guess a V8 powered ski or wake boat? You can easily go with a LFP house battery, you just need to use a DC to DC charger. I would look at Victron Energy’s web site and see what they have. The Minnkota one is only good for 10A’s per battery, but I wonder if the Victron energy one has a higher output? I use the Victron Energy IP67 120 AC ones for my trolling motor batteries and they charge at 25A’s, BB is a Victron dealer and will help you set those chargers up through the bluetooth connection, super easy, I can also give you the parameters. In my option the Victron stuff is the best, Bluetooth visibility and all.

Yes we traded in our beloved Yamaha. Looking to upgrade batteries and add amps to the boat for additional sub and maybe stern thruster (uses a ton of power) . 450hp v8 PCM engine. Already did all the RGB upgrades. Boats are kinda like jeeps, It’s like an addiction upgrading things ??. Not like the boat needs it.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Yes we traded in our beloved Yamaha. Looking to upgrade batteries and add amps to the boat for additional sub and maybe stern thruster (uses a ton of power) . 450hp v8 PCM engine. Already did all the RGB upgrades. Boats are kinda like jeeps, It’s like an addiction upgrading things ??. Not like the boat needs it.

You made quite the upgrade from your 195S!

There are alternators out there that are thermally protected that may work well with your application to get the most charge with the automotive style alternators, the typical automotive style alternator only has a full output duty cycle of around 30% or 3 mins in 10 at full power, some marine or heavy duty alternators have 100% duty cycles or 10 mins in 10 at full output. The tag on your boats alternator should have a duty cycle rating on it. I still would not charge a LFP battery with an automotive style alternator unless A-the manufacturer explicitly states that it can or B-it is thermally protected or preferably both. That is why the DC to DC chargers work great limiting the current to roughly 35 amps for a 10x3 charger, a three bank charger with 10A per bank.

I guess we could call them VMG / VMA’s for variable magnetic generators / alternators. Another thing about the Yamaha PMA system, it is a three phase AC alternator with a full wave rectifier / regulator that converts the AC voltage to DC voltage. Your VMA uses diodes to accomplish the task of ”rectifying“ the AC voltage to DC, and the regulator on the alternator varies the voltage on the rotor which is how the magnetic flux density is changed to vary the output, more voltage / current applied to the rotor, the stronger the magnetic field = more output from the alternator.

A 100Ah LFP battery has roughly 2.5-3 times as much power as a 100Ah FLA or AGM battery, they are roughly half the weight of a 100Ah FLA battery, but are 1/4-1/5 the weight of FLA/AGM batteries of an equivalent size FLA that has the same power storage, in other words you would need a 250-300Ah FLA battery to get the same storage capacity of a 100Ah LFP battery.

Be sure to install victron smart shunts as necessary to give you accurate state of charge and amps in and out, voltage of your start battery etc… All of the victron products use the same app, once installed on our phone if you add another device the app automatically recognizes it and you are off to the races.

They’re a lot of money for sure, but, once installed you will never want for battery storage capacity on your boat. A quick check of the smart shunt on our phone makes it super easy to see what the SOC is of the batteries

 

[Dave burke]

Great info @FSH 210 Sport. My original batteries will be 6 years old in the spring and while they work fine, I’m thinking I should replace them soon. If you were me, what would you do? Still LFP for the house and AGM for the starting? No significant mods except for 3 amps and 2 bilge pumps. Thx

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Great info @FSH 210 Sport. My original batteries will be 6 years old in the spring and while they work fine, I’m thinking I should replace them soon. If you were me, what would you do? Still LFP for the house and AGM for the starting? No significant mods except for 3 amps and 2 bilge pumps. Thx

Yes, AGM for the start battery and LFP for the house battery.

Im not yet sold on the LFP battery for starting, although I am warming up to them for that. I know one member on here has tested the BB batteries as start batteries even though they are not rated for it. Dakota Lithium sells a dual purpose start / deep cycle that battery has 1000 CCA. https://dakotalithium.com/product/d...r-starter-deep-cycle-lifepo4-battery-1000cca/ It is not heated, but the BMS will keep it from beingcharged if its too cold. Here is my reservation on these batteries.

Our boats starters don’t draw very much current, I’m going to guess no more that 80-90 amps, I don’t have a way to measure that at this time. But if one had a full size engine, like @Farny 450 hp V8 I’m guessing that’s going to be in the 400-500 amp range, maybe more. So to me, as the Morgans on the move testing showed, lead acid batteries are superior for starting.

Im guessing your boat has group 24 batteries? If so, you can get a 75Ah LFP that will drop right in and have at a minimum 2X the KWh as a FLA equivalent. 75Ah 12V Group 24 LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery My boat had a molded recess in the liner of the battery compartment for group 24 batteries, I left my start battery as a group 24, but modified the battery location so I could put in a group 27/31 aka 100 Ah LFP battery. If it was me, and there was room, I’d put in a 100Ah LFP.

Are you using your boat when overnight temps are below 35°?

You will have to modify the DVSR to only function when the engines are on, I set mine up with a rocker switch on the dash so it’s totally manual, or @lazergeek just set his up with a couple of relays so that when ever either ignition switch is on the DVSR is active. Let me know if you need help with this.

Battery charger; Again if it was me I’d put in two Victron IP67 chargers, one set up for the AGM for the start battery and set up for the LFP house battery. These chargers are user configurable through the app, easy to do. They can charge at a max of 25 A’s, both your AGM and the LFP can take that level of charge with no reduction in life to either battery.

Long term; Save your current battery charger, if you ever decide to upgrade your boat take the LFP battery out and put in an AGM battery and reinstall the old charger. The LFP battery is going to last you 15 years. I know that’s what I’ll do with all four of my LFP batteries if I decide to upgrade at some point, I’ll put new FLA batteries in and put my old chargers back in.

 

[BlueBulls]

"[Battle Born] batteries are almost entirely made in the USA. To the best of my knowledge now BB only has one small printed circuit board made in china, the rest is all done here, in Nevada, including the Lithium itself."


Battle Born may produce a quality product but don't be deluded into thinking that any of their components are any different from any other lithium battery manufacturer - made in China.

From the most recent quarterly filing of Dragonfly Energy, Battle Born's parent company:

"We currently rely on two carefully selected cell manufacturers located in China, and a single supplier, also located in China, to manufacture our proprietary battery management system, and we intend to continue to rely on these suppliers going forward"

The reference to a Nevada lithium production is from an agreement that has been made with a pie-in-the sky mining claim development company called Ioneer and their Rhyolite Ridge Project. It has been soaking up tens of millions of dollars of government funding for 'feasibility studies' and 'environmental impact statements' while having its construction start date pushed back almost four years (original completion date was supposed to be last year) and even still has no hard start date. The end goal appears to be the issuance of a $700 million DOE loan to fund their construction.

https://www.ioneer.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/300420-dfs-executive-summary-metric_final.pdf

https://rhyolite-ridge.ioneer.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/RR-Quarterly-Newsletter_Q4_2023.pdf

Ioneer looks like a pending rug pull that will use any coming dip in the economy to pack its bags (in the figurative and financial sense) and disappear back to Australia with its $700 million of American tax-payer dollars.


Both companies are incidentally at 52-week lows this very day and have absolutely appalling financials.

Dragonfly Energy

https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/DFLI

Ioneer

https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/GSCCF

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Thanks for the info….i thought BB had started making their own cells in NV a while back.
from your post in the linked thread above.


The other thing that BB has done is to perfect the dry method of cell manufacture which is highly less toxic.

I’m not mistaken that lithium deposit you referenced is up near the border of NV and OR, I used to spend my summers up there shooting ground squirrels and Jack rabbits off of farms. I think it’s interesting that Musks lithium mine is near Reno and this other deposit is also in NV.

Whats the difference between DFLI and DFLIW? I was told, but did not verify, that the ca governor recently signed into law that only allows electric cars with American made batteries to drive with a single occupant in the HOV lanes. I still think that bullshit as HOV lanes are for carpools, not for the accepted “correct” car of the day. Ca did that with the Prius when they first came out, and then pulled the rug out from under them.

 

[jimbobalu]

I'm going to try this one out this summer. I only have a single engine and I think this 200A max discharge will be sufficient to start my boat.

https://aolithium.com/collections/all-products/products/12v100ah-4s-lithium-lifepo4-battery

 

[SamN44]

I want to report my experience trying a lithium battery as the only battery in our 2020 SX 190. It seemed safe enough considering I fly with an EarthX battery in a small airplane, so I decided to give it a try. The TLDR version is that the charging system really matters and a lithium battery didn't work well with the Yamaha stator.

I had a Redodo 12V 100Ah Mini LiFePO4 Battery that was at about 75% state of charge when installed to the boat. They make a Group 24 with the same BMS, but this is what I had. Both allow for 100A continuous and up to 250a for starting. The first outing was flawless. The Connext screen was reading around 13.6v while running, while the lead acid would read 14.3v. I've read there's a voltage drop because the lithium absorbs energy much faster than lead acid.

When I got home, I put the battery on a Noco lithium charger to 100%. Unfortunately, this is where the lithium stopped working well. Although the boat ran, it appears the BMS on the lithium cycles the battery off and on to prevent overcharging and so the boat idled and ran poorly each time that would happen. It was a surging effect along with poor power. The Connext screen also showed spikes well into 15v when the battery would cycle and the stereo also sounded strange.

I turned the boat off so that nothing would be damaged and floated around near the ramp to run the battery down and troubleshoot some. Upon restart, everything worked great until the battery reached full charge and then it would cycle off and on. I spent 10 minutes and put in a regular flooded lead acid and went about the day.

Although I really want to have a single lithium that can function as a start and house battery, I just don't think that's possible with the stator setup on these boats. I'm also open to using a lead acid as the starter and the Redodo as a house battery and running a dc/dc charger, but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to wire that up and I've read that causes lots of grief too.

Has anyone else with a single engine Yamaha tried this?

 

[David Martin]

I'm an AGM fan had mine going or 4 years on a single batt set up. I use a trickle/flote batt maintainer and it has been a great set up. AGM batts charge easer than normal plate battery's so the stators don't have to work quite as hard to charge. I carry a portable lithium back up batt just in case I run the single to low for a start......nice portable insurance for the just in case scenario.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I want to report my experience trying a lithium battery as the only battery in our 2020 SX 190. It seemed safe enough considering I fly with an EarthX battery in a small airplane, so I decided to give it a try. The TLDR version is that the charging system really matters and a lithium battery didn't work well with the Yamaha stator.

I had a Redodo 12V 100Ah Mini LiFePO4 Battery that was at about 75% state of charge when installed to the boat. They make a Group 24 with the same BMS, but this is what I had. Both allow for 100A continuous and up to 250a for starting. The first outing was flawless. The Connext screen was reading around 13.6v while running, while the lead acid would read 14.3v. I've read there's a voltage drop because the lithium absorbs energy much faster than lead acid.

When I got home, I put the battery on a Noco lithium charger to 100%. Unfortunately, this is where the lithium stopped working well. Although the boat ran, it appears the BMS on the lithium cycles the battery off and on to prevent overcharging and so the boat idled and ran poorly each time that would happen. It was a surging effect along with poor power. The Connext screen also showed spikes well into 15v when the battery would cycle and the stereo also sounded strange.

I turned the boat off so that nothing would be damaged and floated around near the ramp to run the battery down and troubleshoot some. Upon restart, everything worked great until the battery reached full charge and then it would cycle off and on. I spent 10 minutes and put in a regular flooded lead acid and went about the day.

Although I really want to have a single lithium that can function as a start and house battery, I just don't think that's possible with the stator setup on these boats. I'm also open to using a lead acid as the starter and the Redodo as a house battery and running a dc/dc charger, but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to wire that up and I've read that causes lots of grief too.

Has anyone else with a single engine Yamaha tried this?

I‘ve been running a 100 Ah Battle Born LFP for my house battery and have zero issues with it in use or being charged with the Yamaha charging system. It sounds like there is a problem with the BMS in the battery you are using. Such is the case of the inexpensive LFP batteries.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I'm an AGM fan had mine going or 4 years on a single batt set up. I use a trickle/flote batt maintainer and it has been a great set up. AGM batts charge easer than normal plate battery's so the stators don't have to work quite as hard to charge. I carry a portable lithium back up batt just in case I run the single to low for a start......nice portable insurance for the just in case scenario.

The alternators in our boats are always at full output, that is the nature of a PMA (Permanent Magnet Alternator) alternator, excess voltage and current are shunted to ground via the regulator / rectifier. Thats one reason why the regulator / rectifier has a water cooled base plate.

 

[JetBoatPenguin]

New batteries going in on the boat this year along with all new battery cables:
House battery will be Lithium. LiTime 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery BCI Group 31 Lithium Battery Built-in 100A BMS, Up to 15000 Deep Cycles <-- this is so light...hard to believe. Bought via Amazon. Has a BMS. $239.

Starting battery will be the Duracell bought from Sam's Club. Duracell AGM Deep Cycle Marine and RV Battery , Group Size 31. $219

These are replacing 2 Duracell 31 AGM's from 2019 (House and starter)...which decided not to hold a charge anymore this winter.

Charger is onboard and will be a Noco GenPro 10x2. Which says can support AGM Charging and Lithium Charging.
I'll report back if there is anything significant either way.

I also carry a lithium Jumpstarter pack....as a backup.

The weight difference between the two batteries is amazing.

 

[Sherwood]

I really appreciate these discussions.
I cheaped out with 2 100 AMP hour AGM batteries for my trolling motor and I been very happy with them.
I can spot hop in the gulf or troll around docks all morning and normally not break 90%.
I have 90 hours on the engines think I definitely have more hours on the trolling motor.

 

[HangOutdoors]

New batteries going in on the boat this year along with all new battery cables:
House battery will be Lithium. LiTime 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery BCI Group 31 Lithium Battery Built-in 100A BMS, Up to 15000 Deep Cycles <-- this is so light...hard to believe. Bought via Amazon. Has a BMS. $239.

Starting battery will be the Duracell bought from Sam's Club. Duracell AGM Deep Cycle Marine and RV Battery , Group Size 31. $219

These are replacing 2 Duracell 31 AGM's from 2019 (House and starter)...which decided not to hold a charge anymore this winter.

Charger is onboard and will be a Noco GenPro 10x2. Which says can support AGM Charging and Lithium Charging.
I'll report back if there is anything significant either way.

I also carry a lithium Jumpstarter pack....as a backup.

The weight difference between the two batteries is amazing.

I was checking out the LiTime LiFePo4 as well this week. Thinking one for house and one for start.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Have any of you checked out Amped LFP batteries? I saw that Scheels is carrying them.

 

[Bruce]

I want to report my experience trying a lithium battery as the only battery in our 2020 SX 190. It seemed safe enough considering I fly with an EarthX battery in a small airplane, so I decided to give it a try. The TLDR version is that the charging system really matters and a lithium battery didn't work well with the Yamaha stator.

I had a Redodo 12V 100Ah Mini LiFePO4 Battery that was at about 75% state of charge when installed to the boat. They make a Group 24 with the same BMS, but this is what I had. Both allow for 100A continuous and up to 250a for starting. The first outing was flawless. The Connext screen was reading around 13.6v while running, while the lead acid would read 14.3v. I've read there's a voltage drop because the lithium absorbs energy much faster than lead acid.

When I got home, I put the battery on a Noco lithium charger to 100%. Unfortunately, this is where the lithium stopped working well. Although the boat ran, it appears the BMS on the lithium cycles the battery off and on to prevent overcharging and so the boat idled and ran poorly each time that would happen. It was a surging effect along with poor power. The Connext screen also showed spikes well into 15v when the battery would cycle and the stereo also sounded strange.

I turned the boat off so that nothing would be damaged and floated around near the ramp to run the battery down and troubleshoot some. Upon restart, everything worked great until the battery reached full charge and then it would cycle off and on. I spent 10 minutes and put in a regular flooded lead acid and went about the day.

Although I really want to have a single lithium that can function as a start and house battery, I just don't think that's possible with the stator setup on these boats. I'm also open to using a lead acid as the starter and the Redodo as a house battery and running a dc/dc charger, but I'm not sure I'm smart enough to wire that up and I've read that causes lots of grief too.

Has anyone else with a single engine Yamaha tried this?

@FSH 210 Sport, @srf32 and everyone else could I get your thoughts on this?

My thinking is that the cheap BMS in the Redodo is cutting off charge and discharge at the upper voltage cutoff while the BattleBorn batteries may only cut off charge while leaving discharge active. I have experienced this with inexpensive BMS circuits that I have used in building LIon battery packs and with LifePo4 batteries that I have used in wheelchair projects.

One of the pair of AGM batteries that I installed in 2014 is showing 12.25 volts fully charged so I am thinking that it is time to replace them.

I am thinking that I may install a pair of low cost LifePo4 batteries to replace the AGMs. I want to tackle the LFP starter battery hurdle.

I have two thoughts on how to make this work.

1. Install 20A buck convertors after the factory rectifier regulators to prevent the stators from fully charging the batteries.

2. Replace the rectifier regulators with LFP compatible versions. Likelly MOSFET based rectifier regulators limited to a lower voltage.

Lots of good info in this thread https://jetboaters.net/threads/bad-...est-of-season-before-pulling-to-repair.29032/

This thread is interesting https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/lithium-batteries-mosfet-regulators-big-shunting-probs.1503976/