For the sound system guru's

[robert843]

Ok have decided an off season project this year will be a sound system up grade. I upgraded the interior speakers to Kicker Km's so will probably get 2 Kicker KM 10 inch subwoofers add a amp to them but will need to upgrade head unit as well any suggestions? Looking for suggestions on amps and head unit and if anyone hates the kicker subs. I really think I would like to find a head unit powerful enought to power the interior speakers on its own and the sound good and just a sub for the woofers am I dreaming or is that possible? Also saw this amp which would power all but the really low price point and claim of 3000 watts of power is scaring me off a little as that sounds way to good to be true at this price point.

https://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PLMRA82...=1468277665&sr=1-2&keywords=kicker+marine+amp

 

[Bruce]

Pyle == Massively Overrated!

That amp has a single 50 amp fuse. Very optimistically 14 volts * 50 amps = 700 watts.

 

[robert843]

Pyle == Massively Overrated!

That amp has a single 50 amp fuse. Very optimistically 14 volts * 50 amps = 700 watts.

Thats what i kind of figured. I have only ever used Orion, Fultron and Rockford Fosgate in cars but its been years so those guys may suck by now to but I remeber Pyle not being a great brand on cars back then either.

 

[LyonsAR210]

@robert843 I am in no way a sound system guru, but wanted to let you know about this amp:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004T0WFVE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a Rockford Fosgate and I'm very happy with them. Bought 2, one for the cabin speakers and one for my tower speakers. Good price I thought too...

 

[robert843]

@robert843 I am in no way a sound system guru, but wanted to let you know about this amp:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004T0WFVE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It's a Rockford Fosgate and I'm very happy with them. Bought 2, one for the cabin speakers and one for my tower speakers. Good price I thought too...

Is it 400 watts rms sorry did not see it on there?

 

[veedubtek]

You're definitely gonna wanna amplify the interior coax speakers as well homey. You can do both coax's and sub with a single amp if you choose. I ran the JL 1000/5 to do the same on the 242, and I was quite satisfied. My doo also runs a single Wetsounds amp to run both coax's and sub, and I'm equally impressed.

 

[LyonsAR210]

@robert843 total power is 400 watts RMS. Here is what I found on Rockford Fosgate's website...

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/details/r400-4d

 

[Sotally Tober]

Only two audio products I trust are Wetsounds http://www.wetsounds.com/ or Arc Audio http://www.arcaudio.com/c/amplifiers. I run my system long, hard and in 120 degree weather for days on end and they have held up with no problems. Tried and tested.

It is possible for you to bypass the head unit all together by utilizing a Wetsounds EQ with Bluetooth: https://wetsounds.com/pages/products/WS-420BT.html or https://wetsounds.com/pages/products/WS-220BT.html

 

[Ryan Cassidy]

All the amps above are good amps... Really it comes down to what you want to spend and how much of an audiophile you can really be in an "open air boat". For example, Class A/B vs a Class D amp. I'd go with a Class D every-time. More efficient. Also remember you are in a boat.. not a sound proof sound stage, so there are significant points of diminishing returns in my opinion. Now I just installed a system in my boat, but since I busted up my knee I haven't been able to document it. I will try and do so when they let me walk again. I followed Maniahs' approach, but used the Polk DB651's (6 of them, 4 in the factory locations and 2 mid ship) and a Polk 10" dual voice coil sub. Matted with a pair of Planet Audio DB1200.4 (yeah, cheap o amp, but class D and I knew the real power output and didn't buy into the whole 12o0 watts things.) Anyway, this a fused distribution block, cabling/wiring, fuses, screws, mounting boards, RCA cables etc I did for under $550 with smart purchases. Not advocating going cheap on everything, but just saying you don't have to spend $2-3-4k on a decent system being mindful that this is a boat (ie open air) and not a sound studio is all. My system sounds terrific.. but am I blasting it in a cove covering 300 feet in each direction? No... Just me and the family cruising or while swiming around the dock is all I needed.

 

[Sotally Tober]

All the amps above are good amps... Really it comes down to what you want to spend and how much of an audiophile you can really be in an "open air boat". For example, Class A/B vs a Class D amp. I'd go with a Class D every-time. More efficient. Also remember you are in a boat.. not a sound proof sound stage, so there are significant points of diminishing returns in my opinion. Now I just installed a system in my boat, but since I busted up my knee I haven't been able to document it. I will try and do so when they let me walk again. I followed Maniahs' approach, but used the Polk DB651's (6 of them, 4 in the factory locations and 2 mid ship) and a Polk 10" dual voice coil sub. Matted with a pair of Planet Audio DB1200.4 (yeah, cheap o amp, but class D and I knew the real power output and didn't buy into the whole 12o0 watts things.) Anyway, this a fused distribution block, cabling/wiring, fuses, screws, mounting boards, RCA cables etc I did for under $550 with smart purchases. Not advocating going cheap on everything, but just saying you don't have to spend $2-3-4k on a decent system being mindful that this is a boat (ie open air) and not a sound studio is all. My system sounds terrific.. but am I blasting it in a cove covering 300 feet in each direction? No... Just me and the family cruising or while swiming around the dock is all I needed.

Go for the cove =)

 

[Ryan Cassidy]

LOL I hear you man! I'd like to sometimes!

 

[Mainah]

Anything pyle or boss audio = pile of steaming dog doo that will crap out on you. With 2 10 inch subs you will want a two channel or bridgeable 4 channel amp dedicated just to the subs. Most certainly class D in a boat that only has stators. Subs are the most power hungry type of speaker so don't forget the battery system.

As far as amp quality there certainly are some differences between brands. Wetsounds is a great quality independent brand that will holdup to the moisture in a boat compartment or getting wet. JL audio has been the standard by which others are measured and could probally produce great sound with the amp submerged. Polk and Jensen marine products are both developed by the same company (ASA electronics) so if you have to go cheap in a class d amp jensen is not a bad choice. Kicker is an ok brand but keep in mind they may be a bit overrated.

For the subs consider how they will be mounted . I free air mounted a polk db because the location worked for not taking up any space and my results were poor. I swapped that to a free air capable sub and results were much better. A sealed box is best and subs desigend for free air require less air space and therefore a smaller box which really helps with limited space.

It would seem that every boat head unit craps out at some point. Go quality and it will be less likely to happen too soon. The cabin speakers will always sound better with an amp but a high end head unit will sound better than a cheap one. Fusion seems to be a good head unit brand and Jensen would be a safe bet as well.

Last tip is do not go cheap on the wire. CCA (copper clad aluminum) wire = please set my boat on fire. Individually tinned strands of ofc is the way to go aka TOFC or CSA. This stuff is not cheap and there are many imitators but here is a link to the best price for the best quality I have personally found. www.knukonceptz.com/marine-audio/marine-power-wire/

The off season is still a ways off so enjoy the rest of the season we have. Good luck.

 

[David Analog]

As mentioned above, you definitely want to stay clear of all things labeled Pyle or Boss. These are bottom feeders, won't come remotely close to spec, and don't perform well at any level.
Kicker is a decent brand. Kicker has some reasonable Class D amplifiers that compete well with the Rockford Fosgate price point amplifiers (either being a good solution). Just stay with 100% Class D in any case. No Class AB. No Hybrid amplifiers. The Kicker subs are not a true Infinite Baffle but can be used in IB applications as long as the power is moderate. With a goal of running two 10-inch subs I'm thinking the goal is more than just moderate. Both JL Audio and Wetsounds offer true IB woofers. Or use the Kicker subs in enclosures for better results. The JL Audio amplifiers are the standard that all must compare to and have the best front end sections by far, making JL Audio amplifiers the easiest to properly tune.

 

[robert843]

Thanks for the replies guys. I wasnt really going to look at Kicker amps but I just figured I would go with the subs since the rest of the s[peakers are kicker but may look deeper into it. If I go kicker I will need to build an enclosure it sounds like which is fine are you guys porting or sealing those? I have not looked at IB subs at all is itr worth looking at them or just butter to suck it up and make an enclosure? Last question which may sound terrible have done installs on vehicles before so have no fear on tackling this project but I have never had to cut a subwoofer hole before what are you guys using to do so I really hate to by a tool to use once.

 

[Mainah]

@robert843 If you have the room then build a sealed enclosure it will sound the best and hit the hardest (just build it with the right amount of volume based on the subs you are using. I wish that is what I had done and I had to go with an IB type sub since the hole was already cut. I still want a sealed box even after upgrading to the IB type sub but if free air mounting location must be used then go with an IB/free air type sub. What @David Analog said is great advice about building the box and he is by far the audio expert on this site. Another method would be to build the box such that it matches up with a hole in the fiberglass perfectly then mount it through both the fiberglass and box secured behind it. Make sure to seal up the box with fiberglass resin, epoxy, truck bed liner or something like that. Maybe even be the cool kid on the block and build your own custom fiberglass box. Lost foam method may be the easiest for a beginner at that.

Lots of tools will work to cut fiberglass like routers, jigsaws, sawsall, body saw, rotozip, etc. Just make sure you tape it off and use a new sharp bit/ blade and if reciprocating type saw a high tpi count metal cutting blade or smooth blade will make clean cut, leave the least mess and get the job done quickly. Router with a jig to follow will make the smoothest cut but make the most mess (I did this but would not do it again). Applying light consistent pressure with the tool shoe firmly and flatly in place and letting the blade do the work is a great rule of thumb for all types of material cutting but even more so with fiberglass. I think there are lots of tips on fiberglass cutting on this forum as well. Last tip would be gloves, googles, respirator, and perhaps a disposable painters suit.

 

[David Analog]

Quote from Mainah: ["Another method would be to build the box such that it matches up with a hole in the fiberglass perfectly then mount it through both the fiberglass and box secured behind it."]

^^^ More on this. This is the best of everything. Acoustic suspension (small sealed airtight enclosure) for more excursion and control. But direct-radiating as to completely eliminate the impact of the expansive compartments that would otherwise conceal the subwoofer.

 

[robert843]

@robert843 If you have the room then build a sealed enclosure it will sound the best and hit the hardest (just build it with the right amount of volume based on the subs you are using. I wish that is what I had done and I had to go with an IB type sub since the hole was already cut. I still want a sealed box even after upgrading to the IB type sub but if free air mounting location must be used then go with an IB/free air type sub. What @David Analog said is great advice about building the box and he is by far the audio expert on this site. Another method would be to build the box such that it matches up with a hole in the fiberglass perfectly then mount it through both the fiberglass and box secured behind it. Make sure to seal up the box with fiberglass resin, epoxy, truck bed liner or something like that. Maybe even be the cool kid on the block and build your own custom fiberglass box. Lost foam method may be the easiest for a beginner at that.

Lots of tools will work to cut fiberglass like routers, jigsaws, sawsall, body saw, rotozip, etc. Just make sure you tape it off and use a new sharp bit/ blade and if reciprocating type saw a high tpi count metal cutting blade or smooth blade will make clean cut, leave the least mess and get the job done quickly. Router with a jig to follow will make the smoothest cut but make the most mess (I did this but would not do it again). Applying light consistent pressure with the tool shoe firmly and flatly in place and letting the blade do the work is a great rule of thumb for all types of material cutting but even more so with fiberglass. I think there are lots of tips on fiberglass cutting on this forum as well. Last tip would be gloves, googles, respirator, and perhaps a disposable painters suit.

If I build a box it eill be as you described custom fit to mount to the fiberglass as one piece and sealed. I will likely build it out if wood but may explore the fiberglass option.

 

[Derek Fosbury]

Quote from Mainah: ["Another method would be to build the box such that it matches up with a hole in the fiberglass perfectly then mount it through both the fiberglass and box secured behind it."]

^^^ More on this. This is the best of everything. Acoustic suspension (small sealed airtight enclosure) for more excursion and control. But direct-radiating as to completely eliminate the impact of the expansive compartments that would otherwise conceal the subwoofer.

I did this on my last boat, and even with a super cheap ($40) pioneer amp and a relatively cheap MTX 10" sub, it rocked. I plan to do this again on my new boat.

 

[robert843]

I'm wondering if I couldn't even just buy something like this from @Earmark Marine and mount it to the the hole through tthe fiberglase and using other materials to make sure its fully sealed.

 

[robert843]

also is there any danger in running a car audio amp? I know it may clunk out on me early but just curious about risk.