Generel Questions... AR190 vs AR195S vs AR220

[Bcollins111900]

In the market for a boat and I believe I have it narrowed down between the AR190, AR195s, and AR220. I had a few general questions that I hope someone might be able to shed some light on. Boat would be used for hitting the lake to cruise around, do some tubing, wake board (maybe), drink at the sandbar, little bit of fishing but not much, typically would never have more than 4-5 people total on the boat...

1. The AR220 would be nice due to the extra space/size, dual motors in case one fails, in the long run is it worth the extra $7,600 - $16,700?
2. I understand the supercharged motors are creating more horsepower, however does the super charged motors come with more maintenance/headaches or less reliable compared to a non-supercharged motor?
3. I have a 2024 Grand Cherokee L that has a towing capacity of 6,200 lbs. Is anyone else towing a AR195s or AR220 with a similar sized SUV... any issues?
4. What is the tongue weight on these boats?
5. Is there a better boat option in the same price ranges of these boats $40k-$56k? I'm open to other manufactures....

Ideally wanting to make sure I make the right choice so I'm early on in the planning stages...

 

[Maccam26]

The 3.6 in the grand Cherokee will not like the 220. I’m towing with a Gladiator 19’ boat and even that is 5th-6th gear towing on highway.

 

[Maccam26]

4-5 people is doable on a 19’ boat. That’s the reason I chose mine, fits in garage, doable with a few friends and tows easy

 

[Bcollins111900]

Thanks Maccam26, great information! I'm leaning towards the AR195s I'm just apprehensive with the superchargers on them. From research it seems they have more issues when compared to the AR190 that doesn't have the supercharger.

 

[toddaltpeter]

I have a 21 AR190. Love the boat, cruises at 30 MPH with 4 or 5 adults on it, Can comfortably have 6 people on it and not feel cramped. but it's not a speed demon. It's quick on the low end and can pull skiers, Tubes and wakeboarders with ease. Best part of it is it take regular gas vs the 195's that requires premium. If you are all about top end, get the 195s. If not save the 10K for when you buy your next boat. Every boat owner is always looking at their "Next boat". Which ever one you go with, buy Cobra fins or Thrust Vectors before you put it in the water. Really helps with low speed steering, especially if your new to jet boats.

 

[Bottom Bracket]

Thanks Maccam26, great information! I'm leaning towards the AR195s I'm just apprehensive with the superchargers on them. From research it seems they have more issues when compared to the AR190 that doesn't have the supercharger.

Please share your research regarding the Yamaha Superchargers reliability.
Forced induction helps with altitude.

 

[Bcollins111900]

From my limited understanding, 2017 and older motors with superchargers need re-built anywhere from the 100-200 hour mark from what I have read on the net and general research. It appears 2018 and new is the "maintenance" free version of these motors in regards to the superchargers. Granted I am looking at boats that are of course newer than 2018 so it seems to be the bugs have been worked out. What I have not came across yet and have been looking for is a post or information such as if a Yamaha supercharged or non supercharged motor has more than "X" hours it should be avoided or historically will require major maintenance soon.

 

[Btsnhos]

In the market for a boat and I believe I have it narrowed down between the AR190, AR195s, and AR220. I had a few general questions that I hope someone might be able to shed some light on. Boat would be used for hitting the lake to cruise around, do some tubing, wake board (maybe), drink at the sandbar, little bit of fishing but not much, typically would never have more than 4-5 people total on the boat...

1. The AR220 would be nice due to the extra space/size, dual motors in case one fails, in the long run is it worth the extra $7,600 - $16,700?
2. I understand the supercharged motors are creating more horsepower, however does the super charged motors come with more maintenance/headaches or less reliable compared to a non-supercharged motor?
3. I have a 2024 Grand Cherokee L that has a towing capacity of 6,200 lbs. Is anyone else towing a AR195s or AR220 with a similar sized SUV... any issues?
4. What is the tongue weight on these boats?
5. Is there a better boat option in the same price ranges of these boats $40k-$56k? I'm open to other manufactures....

Ideally wanting to make sure I make the right choice so I'm early on in the planning stages...

1. Both the SVHO and the TR-1 are very reliable engines. The 220 is going to have more torque which will be better for sports and from what i have seen on the water they get up to plane faster and create alot more wake, but the 195 is going to be a faster boat. My boat does not really create wake like the 220 does so we can surf behind it but its nothing like the 220 gets you. I own a AR195 and with 5 adults and 3 kids hit 43 mph last saturday. With myself and my wife we hit 50 all day. The 220 is going to be double the money for everything so cost of ownership is...doubled. If you aren't regularly taking it out to the ocean this might overkill.

2. There is no different on the maintenance between the 190 and 195. The supercharger just adds more compressed air at high rpms. Maintenance is the same (spark plugs, air filter, oil etc). But, if you are going to buy a used 195 make sure you check those upper RPMs to ensure the clutch is not destroyed on the supercharger. (usually happens from people always running at wide open throttle or neglect) there are multiple threads on here on what to look for. There are 500+ hours on some of these boats as long as you actually do the maintenance there is no difference. You can always add a blow off valve on the supercharger to relieve back pressure when throttling down, but if you don't drive it like a F-18 you shouldnt have that problem.

3. 190 & 195 yes, 220 no. 195+trailer is 3000lbs but the boat is wide. People pull them with SUVs just be careful

4. no clue, i would guess around 400lbs but thats a real swag.

5. Depends on what you want, scarabs are really nice but i have seen cost more money. I went with the AR195 due to the reliability of the engine, the amount of room it has onboard, and the affordability. Mine was $33k from a private seller (recently), they are all over facebook marketplace in my area (jacksonville) but the cheaper ones tend to be north of atlanta and around nashville. 2022's for $35k.

Final thoughts. I like the 220 but I did not want dual engines due to the maintenance costs and fuel costs and its a larger boat which is not something i need. I also know the sounds system on the 220 sucks. Turns out the 195 isnt much better so plan to upgrade that upon purchase. I also wanted a boat that as fast and easy to trailer. I went with the AR195 instead of the SX195 because i liked the bench seat on the port side, my kids love to lay there and nap but I would go to a dealer and sit in each one, the 195 has alot of room. As far as the 190, they are great boats but i like passing them on the water.

 

[Bcollins111900]

1. Both the SVHO and the TR-1 are very reliable engines. The 220 is going to have more torque which will be better for sports and from what i have seen on the water they get up to plane faster and create alot more wake, but the 195 is going to be a faster boat. My boat does not really create wake like the 220 does so we can surf behind it but its nothing like the 220 gets you. I own a AR195 and with 5 adults and 3 kids hit 43 mph last saturday. With myself and my wife we hit 50 all day. The 220 is going to be double the money for everything so cost of ownership is...doubled. If you aren't regularly taking it out to the ocean this might overkill.

2. There is no different on the maintenance between the 190 and 195. The supercharger just adds more compressed air at high rpms. Maintenance is the same (spark plugs, air filter, oil etc). But, if you are going to buy a used 195 make sure you check those upper RPMs to ensure the clutch is not destroyed on the supercharger. (usually happens from people always running at wide open throttle or neglect) there are multiple threads on here on what to look for. There are 500+ hours on some of these boats as long as you actually do the maintenance there is no difference. You can always add a blow off valve on the supercharger to relieve back pressure when throttling down, but if you don't drive it like a F-18 you shouldnt have that problem.

3. 190 & 195 yes, 220 no. 195+trailer is 3000lbs but the boat is wide. People pull them with SUVs just be careful

4. no clue, i would guess around 400lbs but thats a real swag.

5. Depends on what you want, scarabs are really nice but i have seen cost more money. I went with the AR195 due to the reliability of the engine, the amount of room it has onboard, and the affordability. Mine was $33k from a private seller (recently), they are all over facebook marketplace in my area (jacksonville) but the cheaper ones tend to be north of atlanta and around nashville. 2022's for $35k.

Final thoughts. I like the 220 but I did not want dual engines due to the maintenance costs and fuel costs and its a larger boat which is not something i need. I also know the sounds system on the 220 sucks. Turns out the 195 isnt much better so plan to upgrade that upon purchase. I also wanted a boat that as fast and easy to trailer. I went with the AR195 instead of the SX195 because i liked the bench seat on the port side, my kids love to lay there and nap but I would go to a dealer and sit in each one, the 195 has alot of room. As far as the 190, they are great boats but i like passing them on the water.

Thank you for the insight, very very helpful. I’m going to go with a AR195 or AR195s. I found a super clean 2018 scarab 195 but it has 310 hours on it which makes me hesitant due to that many hours. Going to look at a 2023 AR195s this weekend with only 5 hours on it.

 

[Btsnhos]

Thank you for the insight, very very helpful. I’m going to go with a AR195 or AR195s. I found a super clean 2018 scarab 195 but it has 310 hours on it which makes me hesitant due to that many hours. Going to look at a 2023 AR195s this weekend with only 5 hours on it.

Good luck, i would say the 195s is nicer, i just wish it had the bench seat.

 

[Jim_in_Delaware]

From my limited understanding, 2017 and older motors with superchargers need re-built anywhere from the 100-200 hour mark from what I have read on the net and general research. It appears 2018 and new is the "maintenance" free version of these motors in regards to the superchargers. Granted I am looking at boats that are of course newer than 2018 so it seems to be the bugs have been worked out. What I have not came across yet and have been looking for is a post or information such as if a Yamaha supercharged or non supercharged motor has more than "X" hours it should be avoided or historically will require major maintenance soon.

Hope someone else chimes in on this, but is there a recommended supercharger rebuild time for Yamaha?

I believe Scarab had 200 hour rebuild recommendations on their older Rotax engines, but have gone to maintenance free superchargers on the newer boats. Personally, I would stay with a 2018, or newer, Scarab over an older Scarab, for other reasons.

We all have our personal likes and dislikes on different boats, but I personally like the Scarab 195 layout over the Yamaha 190/195 layout. In part, I think the rear deck is a better platform for fishing.

Most of the boats here are Yamahas, but there is a pretty active Scarab FB page, as well.

Jim

 

[Bcollins111900]

Hope someone else chimes in on this, but is there a recommended supercharger rebuild time for Yamaha?

I believe Scarab had 200 hour rebuild recommendations on their older Rotax engines, but have gone to maintenance free superchargers on the newer boats. Personally, I would stay with a 2018, or newer, Scarab over an older Scarab, for other reasons.

We all have our personal likes and dislikes on different boats, but I personally like the Scarab 195 layout over the Yamaha 190/195 layout. In part, I think the rear deck is a better platform for fishing.

Most of the boats here are Yamahas, but there is a pretty active Scarab FB page, as well.

Jim

Thank you for the insight Jim. I like the looks of the Scarabs better as well as the interior in my opinion is nicer in appearance. The 310 hours on the motor and the boat not having clean out ports like the Yamaha is leaning me more towards a new 195s or AR195.

 

[Jerlane]

Thank you for the insight, very very helpful. I’m going to go with a AR195 or AR195s.

FYI, it's AR195 or 195S, there is no AR195S. Not trying to be snarky, but just pointing it out so you can talk the talk correctly.

 

[biffdotorg]

Final thoughts. I like the 220 but I did not want dual engines due to the maintenance costs and fuel costs and its a larger boat which is not something i need.

I don't put any weight on the maintenance costs, as an oil change kit is what $36 for the TR1 and you need two. (unless you are paying someone to do it) I would love to see the numbers on a 220 running at 35mph with both engines and a 195 with one SC engine. I would bet the 220 may be eating a bit more fuel. But at WOT, that SC in the 195 may be eating as much or more than a pair of TR1's. (although at a higher speed)

Either way, cost of fuel and maintenance will not be top of the list. Space to store and tow capacity of his tow vehicle may be a bigger concern. There are no wrong choices here. Lots of fun to be had on any of them.

 

[Ribs77]

FWIW I tow an AR195 with a hybrid Highlander. It does just fine, although the gas mileage suffers as you'd expect.

 

[mtudb24]

I just got a AR 220. I tow it with a gladiator with a 7000+ tow rating. It did fine on the 130 miles I towed it from the Dealer to our cottage. The 220 is 4700 on the trailer not including fuel etc. The 195 I think is like 3100 on the trailer.
Would I want to tow it every weekend to the lake if I had to go on highways? Nope Nope Nope. If your talking about a 1 time tow from dealer to home or its a short distance between home and your lake on roads at or under 55mph, then you GC might not be too bad.

Being my first jet boat ( all my previous boats being single or twin engine outboards), I wanted twin so I can work the throttles and have more control until I get used to how these jet boats handle.
If you care more about top speed then anything else, then the AR220 isn't your first choice.

I'm torn on the whole "reliability" thing between normally aspirated engines vs forced induction engines. While there is a shit ton more moving parts and more that can go wrong (and you have to run premium or rec fuel which will hit the wallet especially if you are buying fuel on the water), major OEM's have been running SC motors for a long time. Its not like you slapping on a whipple charger on your GC's 3.6 as an aftermarket modification and praying for somebody to make a decent calibration for it and hope their mapping of fuel and air doesn't grenade the motor in 10K miles.

 

[AuburnVFR]

195s require 91+ premium fuel. 190, 220 does not. If you wish to run ethanol free, make sure your required octane level is available in your area, as ethanol free choices are often limited.

 

[Channelkill]

I have a 2019 195SX Yamaha. I didn't bother with the 10 hour change of spark plugs at the beginning and lived to regret it. I pulled the first two plugs they still looked brand new so I put them back in and ran the boat the rest of the year. I did change the oil at the 10 hour mark. I live in Florida so the season is most of the year. I pulled the first two plugs and they showed some corrosion and carbon buildup. When I got to the third it was stuck. I backed it out about .25" then it stopped and after much cranking on it with a standard 3/8" rachet I broke the plug off. I then spent days spraying lube and various anti seize on the threads. then broke off some more of the threads but the plug wouldn't budge. Took it to the dealer and had them pull the head and back what was left of the plug out. they then serviced the rest of the engine and replaced the SC clutch which was bad under warranty. The head removal wasn't under warranty. Turns out Yamaha doesn't put anti seize on the plugs from the factory plus the plugs are so long half the threads are in the cylinder exposed to the weather on cylinder 3 and carbon build up on the threads so when you try to remove them if there's too much rust on the threads they won't come out.

I towed it with a Toyota sienna van and now have a Honda pilot. The pilot handles it much better. Stick with at least a 2019 or newer they changed the hull design for the better and the rudder is super helpful. My wife loves the dual captain’s chairs instead of the bench. The 195S came out the next year. Wish I had the tower. I actually bought another captain chair with the flip up seat cushion wife was jealous that I could sit up higher than her. The radio died after year 2, so replaced it with rockford marine unit that has remote control stations for the co pilot to control the radio from their seat, very helpful.

Mine tops out fastest I’ve had it at 47MPH with two adults, two kids and glassy conditions. I run 89 octane ethanol free because it’s what’s available near me and she’s happy with the fuel. I always top it off when I go out and burn about half the tank each time.