Getting swamped by cruise ship

[CastawayRK]

I saw a story this week about a small boat capsized by massive cruise ship in Tampa. Fortunately both people and dog were saved. I really don’t know details or who was primarily to blame. To this point I have only operated on lakes with nothing really big to worry about but have plans in future to travel with boat. This is a case where I don’t know what I don’t know. I couldn’t find much in my Coast Guard book on the subject. It looks like ships of that size are to be afforded a 500 yard buffer. Is that enough? What sort of wake does a 900’ boat throw even at modest harbor speeds? Any direction where to find the regs would be appreciated.
Cheers
Randy

 

[zipper]

I am not familiar with this incident, but in a nut shell...the vessel is restricted by draft and must stay in the channel and maintain steerage. For a vessel of this size it means speed could be 18-20 kts. As some of the wake surfers here know about wake size as they roll from a channel into shallower water. As I previously stated, I don't know the details, how close they were, size of their boat, freeboard, how they took the wave, from the bow or abeam. The larger vessel had the ROW, so boaters need to pay attention and plan ahead on how you are going to take action to survive. Sometimes you not have 500 yards to play with, ATONS, will mark the channel. Charts or chartplotter will give info on depth outside the channel. We encountered big wakes in LI Sound and the Hudson from container ships and barges, but we saw them coming and planned ahead. We also were on a 36' catamaran.

Adobe Acrobat

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[zipper]

Found this video, it shows where the channel was and the ATON number.

 

[spatty99]

I think there are other restrictions that apply here (I recall reading 500 yard clearance for cruise ships in this particular channel), but constrained by draft is technically not a part of US inland water regulations (in the US, if you aren't in open water/ocean you're probably in inland water)...

Vessels Constrained by Draft - Means that a vessel can't deviate from a course/channel because they might run aground. A freighter in a narrow channel is an example of this. Note: This is for International waters only, not Inland.

Rules of the Road : BoatUS Foundation

The BoatUS Foundation provides this study guide to not only help with passing our free online boating safety course, but to provide a knowledge base for anyone wanting to learn about boating.

boatus.org

I am not familiar with this incident, but in a nut shell...the vessel is restricted by draft and must stay in the channel and maintain steerage. For a vessel of this size it means speed could be 18-20 kts. As some of the wake surfers here know about wake size as they roll from a channel into shallower water. As I previously stated, I don't know the details, how close they were, size of their boat, freeboard, how they took the wave, from the bow or abeam. The larger vessel had the ROW, so boaters need to pay attention and plan ahead on how you are going to take action to survive. Sometimes you not have 500 yards to play with, ATONS, will mark the channel. We encountered big wakes in LI Sound and the Hudson from container ships and barges, but we saw them coming and planned ahead. We also were on a 36' catamaran.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[zipper]

I have been studying for my 6 pack USCG captain's license. Not quite there yet. And I slept in a Holliday Inn Express last night, lol. I just screenshotted this from my link above. Maneuverability May play into it also, but that is usually vessels engaged in trawling, dredging, towing, pushing barges etc. The exception to inland waters, rule 1b, is all inland waters that connect to the high seas. ie, coastal rivers and bays, Great lakes, Mississippi River, Hudson River, Lake Champlain etc. where commercial traffic can be present.





The video above talks about the 500 yard rule, but some channels may not provide that distance.






@Thermobrett or @Adrian @ JB Solutions May have additional info for clarity.

 

[CastawayRK]

So yeah there’s lots to this subject. I would assume a 1000’ vessel is the stand-on vessel due to channel and other practical constraints. Best I can tell the wake will be 5-6’ waves, but round swells not sharp breaks (aided by the ugly bulbous nose). It will also be impacted by bottom contour. Certainly our boats can deal with this but I wouldn’t want it coming abeam. In the charts @zipper posted it looks like there is plenty of shallow water beyond the channel for folks like us to avoid the behemoth.
PS - this board is great place to discuss such stuff
Cheers
Randy

 

[svana]

So take it for what it's worth, this exact thing almost happened to us this past year. We were returning back to port in the bay in the afternoon as one of the ships were coming out. I'd say we were maybe 1km away (complete guesstimate) - south of it (the cruise ship was on our port). We were cruising at around 20-25mph and got caught looking at the ship for a little bit as we passed it. I look forward again and a rolling wave taller than the boat was coming right at us created by the wake of the ship. Looked at it deer in headlights but for whatever reason muscle memory kicked in and navigated it appropriately (thank you Bimini runs! lol). If someone told me I was exaggerating I'd be willing to believe them but man was it a shit your pants moment.

All that to say when I read the story I completely sympathized. I'd believe that if we had been stationary and broadsided by that wave I could totally see us getting capsized.

 

[Beachbummer]

Very very large swells are easy... A gentle bump on the road, adjust speed accordingly.... But when the swell exits the dredged area and hits a shallow spot, as the wave lifts from the bottom, it will eventually rise enough to break... That wave will look gnarly and will really mess with you if you are not paying attention.

Be safe!!!

 

[Thermobrett]

My boat was swamped back in 2023 at Egmont Key. Two passing freighters in that shipping channel caused a big enough wake from miles away to fill the boat to the bottom of the windshield. Luckily I was anchored in about 3 ft of water, so the boat only sank and bottomed out. if I was any deeper, just the bimini arch would have been above the water. We were able to float the boat by bailing water out with the Yamaha provided cooler until the bilge pump outlet was above the waterline. I had to have the engine burned out as it was full of saltwater. Been there a million times, never seen two freighters pass by at the same time.

 

[svana]

Very very large swells are easy... A gentle bump on the road, adjust speed accordingly.... But when the swell exits the dredged area and hits a shallow spot, as the wave lifts from the bottom, it will eventually rise enough to break... That wave will look gnarly and will really mess with you if you are not paying attention.

Be safe!!!

That's exactly the situation there - it goes from the dredged channel of 45' to 25' to 15' real quick, all the water got pushed up but thankfully didn't break.

My boat was swamped back in 2023 at Egmont Key. Two passing freighters in that shipping channel caused a big enough wake from miles away to fill the boat to the bottom of the windshield. Luckily I was anchored in about 3 ft of water, so the boat only sank and bottomed out. if I was any deeper, just the bimini arch would have been above the water. We were able to float the boat by bailing water out with the Yamaha provided cooler until the bilge pump outlet was above the waterline. I had to have the engine burned out as it was full of saltwater. Been there a million times, never seen two freighters pass by at the same time.

Of all the things that get me, those damn tug boats create their own wake across the bay when they're cruising at speed...

 

[Sherwood]

I wonder what the sea state was. When it's flat ..waves can really travel. I got rolled of my kayak and as far I know.. I'm the only person to roll a Kaku Zulu inshore. Its 12.5 feet long, 38 inches wide and 500lb capacity. Flat glass day and large center console came about 20 yards outside of the channel. Got me lol.
I lost one little pop light and one probably 14 year old flip flop.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

My boat was swamped back in 2023 at Egmont Key. Two passing freighters in that shipping channel caused a big enough wake from miles away to fill the boat to the bottom of the windshield. Luckily I was anchored in about 3 ft of water, so the boat only sank and bottomed out. if I was any deeper, just the bimini arch would have been above the water. We were able to float the boat by bailing water out with the Yamaha provided cooler until the bilge pump outlet was above the waterline. I had to have the engine burned out as it was full of saltwater. Been there a million times, never seen two freighters pass by at the same time.

View attachment 230513

I remember…bad day at slippery rock for sure. Question, did you have the bow or stern facing the shore?

 

[Thermobrett]

Flat side in and pointy end out, with about 50-70’ of anchor line.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

You were probably in shallow enough water that the boat would not “float” on the internal foam.. boats like ours will still “float” aka fully swamped with the rated number of people and cargo in them.

 

[tdonoughue]

I had always learned that I was responsible for my own wake. Hmmm. @zipper quoted the Nav Rules, but didn't see that in there. So I dug out my Nav Rules myself... and didn't find it there. Did find a Texas law that applies to inland Texas waters...

This article explains it is at common law and interpretation of the Nav Rules (at least for Inland Rules--can't imagine why it would be different in International): Boat Wake Damage Liability . Basically, a wake is considered to 'collide' with another craft, so when it says safe speed so as to avoid a collision, that includes a safe speed so as to not cause a damaging collision of your wake with another boat. Interesting (so I am posting it).

Practically speaking, yes, it would be wise to steer clear of these biggies (and sometimes, as pointed out, it is an anti-terrorism law). But equally they don't have the right to exceed steerage speed and cause a damaging wake.

 

[zipper]

Inland rules are somewhat different than international rules, as we know. Inland rules can be modified by the State that they are in, setbacks from shore, banning MV's, etc. Typically, Inland lakes and rivers are not navigable by ships of the high seas, which follow the rules of the country they are flagged in. So, in this case the Tampa Bay channel is considered an International waters shipping channel. That cruise ship is most likely not flagged in the US and does not really care about it's wake. The captain wants to keep it in the channel maintaining steerage so as not to run aground. To maintain steerage, you need speed to overcome windage and any wave effects and we know you cannot slow or stop these vessels on a dime.
Vermont recently implemented some new inland rules, Vermont's New Wakeboat Rule Goes into Effect for the 2024 Boating Season | Department of Environmental Conservation and Wakeboating and Wakesports in Vermont | Department of Environmental Conservation they do not have any jurisdiction on Lake Champlain. We share the Lake shores with New York and Quebec. This Lake is considered international rules because of it being navigable both from the North and South to/from the high seas. Which is similar for all waters on the "Great Loop".
Inland waters are mostly recreational boaters and small commercial operations, registered in the US and subject to it's rules and liabilities.
IDK, that is my understanding of this situation.

 

[tdonoughue]

Fully agree. But my observation was that International Rule 6 is the same as Inland Rule 6. So I think technically, they are still responsible for safe speed. If they are going minimum to maintain steerage and a wake causes damage, they have likely met their obligation. If they are going faster (to make schedule, makeup time, etc.) and cause damage then they likely are not at safe speed and may be liable.

But, yes, they don't care. Few people get their license plate number and have a dash cam to prove what happened, can judge steerage speed of a large craft, hire a maritime lawyer, and file a federal case (literally). Many people take the same attitude on the road--doesn't mean it complies with the law or is right.

 

[zipper]

I agree, however their definition of safe speed may be different than our/your recreational boaters definition. Good luck proving that in a maritime court.

 

[spatty99]

Scroll in, the entirety of Tampa Bay is inland water...

Koordinates

koordinates.com

Pretty much anything wet in the US that isn't the Atlantic, Pacific or Gulf is likely demarcated as inland waters. Think about when a cruise ship is allowed to open the casino after leaving a US port, only after they reach international waters (google says the casino on a cruise ship leaving Port Tampa Bay doesn't open for a couple hours).

"U.S. collision regulation boundaries are lines of demarcation delineating those waters upon which mariners shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 (72 COLREGS) and those waters upon which mariners shall comply with the Inland Navigation Rules. The waters inland of these lines are subject to the Inland Navigation Rules Act of 1980. The waters outside these lines are subject to the International Navigation Rules of the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 (COLREGS). The Coast Guard has the legal authority to effect regulatory changes to COLREGS. Creation of features was interpreted from descriptions published in the Code of Federal Regulations Title 33, Part 80."

Inland rules are somewhat different than international rules, as we know. Inland rules can be modified by the State that they are in, setbacks from shore, banning MV's, etc. Typically, Inland lakes and rivers are not navigable by ships of the high seas, which follow the rules of the country they are flagged in. So, in this case the Tampa Bay channel is considered an International waters shipping channel. That cruise ship is most likely not flagged in the US and does not really care about it's wake. The captain wants to keep it in the channel maintaining steerage so as not to run aground. To maintain steerage, you need speed to overcome windage and any wave effects and we know you cannot slow or stop these vessels on a dime.
Vermont recently implemented some new inland rules, Vermont's New Wakeboat Rule Goes into Effect for the 2024 Boating Season | Department of Environmental Conservation and Wakeboating and Wakesports in Vermont | Department of Environmental Conservation they do not have any jurisdiction on Lake Champlain. We share the Lake shores with New York and Quebec. This Lake is considered international rules because of it being navigable both from the North and South to/from the high seas. Which is similar for all waters on the "Great Loop".
Inland waters are mostly recreational boaters and small commercial operations, registered in the US and subject to it's rules and liabilities.
IDK, that is my understanding of this situation.

 

[CastawayRK]

What @tdonoughue said about being responsible for your wake was one of the thought starters for me on this one. A good friend of mine that has crewed sailboats literally all over the world said "That is more or less true. But we just stay the f*** away from boats that big. They usually have narrow lane to travel in the channel and you can't win an argument from the bottom of the bay". So size does matter.