Has anybody done a custom ballast install with permanent plumbing on a 190/192/195?

[d_coyne1984]

I am probably going to add some larger ballast tanks this spring for wakeboarding, but I hate havingto dick around with the portable pump and asking people to move around the boat while I fill each one so I think I am going to try and do a permanent install with through hull fittings, solenoid valves to control bag fill, and permanently install lines/drains/vents.

My question is has anybody done this in their 190/192/195? I am hoping for some mounting location ideas for the pump mounting and distribution plumbing as that will be the most difficult part.

My other thought is, has anybody removed the panel underneath the transom wet-storage/clean-out port lid to see what kind of free space is back there? If it's fairly open I may try and fit the bags bags back there to free up storage space in the boat.

 

[swatski]

I am probably going to add some larger ballast tanks this spring for wakeboarding, but I hate havingto dick around with the portable pump and asking people to move around the boat while I fill each one so I think I am going to try and do a permanent install with through hull fittings, solenoid valves to control bag fill, and permanently install lines/drains/vents.

My question is has anybody done this in their 190/192/195? I am hoping for some mounting location ideas for the pump mounting and distribution plumbing as that will be the most difficult part.

My other thought is, has anybody removed the panel underneath the transom wet-storage/clean-out port lid to see what kind of free space is back there? If it's fairly open I may try and fit the bags bags back there to free up storage space in the boat.

Oh yes, there is a TON of space back there in the 190s!
I 'll look for better pics latter, but I was very surprised how much space there was when I first opened it up, strbd side of the water box - it is a huge void:


There is also room under the swim platform and on the sides:


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[blacksapphirez]

wouldn't the exhaust possibly melt the bag?

 

[swatski]

wouldn't the exhaust possibly melt the bag?

No. Everything past water box and resonator is all cool.
I have had some sound deadening mat on the water box part of the exhaust, never seen any deterioration.
I guess it could get hot if you ran it without water... but then you have bigger things to worry about than a ballast bag, LOL.




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[d_coyne1984]

No. Everything past water box and resonator is all cool.
I have had some sound deadening mat on the water box part of the exhaust, never seen any deterioration.
I guess it could get hot if you ran it without water... but then you have bigger things to worry about than a ballast bag, LOL.
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How did the sound deadening work back there? I have added a little to the cockpit area, and it now sounds like most of the sound is coming from the rear of the boat. It sounds like the noise is reverberating around back there and the hull is acting like a drum to the sound as it vibrates. So adding some deadening back there is on my list of things to try too.

 

[swatski]

How did the sound deadening work back there? I have added a little to the cockpit area, and it now sounds like most of the sound is coming from the rear of the boat. It sounds like the noise is reverberating around back there and the hull is acting like a drum to the sound as it vibrates. So adding some deadening back there is on my list of things to try too.

Most definitely - the stern in 19s is like an acoustic guitar box. I took a multi-prong approach to sound deadening there, all at one time, so it is difficult to separate relative contributions of individual components. That said, anything and everything helps.
One of the advantages/clever design features of the "quiet ride" technology in newer models is they chopped up the space back there into smaller and partially filled compartments. Makes it super difficult for access, but is great for sound deadening.

I am still working on my new boat, and one lesson (I think) I have learned is that trying to emulate car industry approaches has limits here, particularly when it comes to the number one strategy: mass loading. I find that the way fiberglass hull responds to mass loading treatments (such as Dynamat Extreme and equivalents) is dramatically less impressive than what you get with a car panel. I think it is a matter of simple ratios of the mass of the dampener you are applying to the mass of the panel you are trying to silence -- which is many times skewed comparing a sheath metal car panel and a fiberglass hull.

I think @dan144k used some filler acoustic foam, I did too but not to the same extent, as I kind of ran out of steam (and time).


I have also injected some polyurethane foam into the spaces under the swim deck.

Here are some pics of Dynamat extreme and foam. I have since switched to Raamat and Ensolite.



Whatever you do, DO NOT use the cheap HD or Lowes roofing mat material. It will not stay put and create a big mess. It may work on car sheath metal panels, but does not work on fiberglass and in boats. I tested some out of curiosity, and it was pretty bad. I would NOT recommend using those.

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[dan144k]

I thru some accustic bass wedges back in the corners. Was trying to absorb the harmonics. It helped some.

 

[Jgorm]

[QUOTE="swatski, post: 211161, member: ]
Whatever you do, DO NOT use the cheap HD or Lowes roofing mat material. It will not stay put and create a big mess. It may work on car sheath metal panels, but does not work on fiberglass and in boats. I tested some out of curiosity, and it was pretty bad. I would NOT recommend using those.

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Did you try jiffy seal? I've spent thousands on dynamat and similar products and jiffy seal is all I use now. Been using it for over 7 years with no issues on cars.
If a panel doesn't resonate, adding mass Will do nothing for sound control. Suspended mass damper is where it's at when thickness is an issue. West Maine makes some great stuff. It's Mylar-open cell foam-vinyl mass damper-closed cell foam-adhesive. When thickness is not an issue, go for 2"+ of insulating material. Gluing 2" closed cell foam boards to the deals, and 1.5" egg crate on top of that will have a huge effect. I'd bet that throwing a trash bag full of regular construction insulation in the back would have way more effect than $500 worth of dynamat and 10+ hours of installation. You will gain the largest reduction by concentrating on sealing, sound absorption (open cell, egg crate style, poly fill, fiberglass, etc), reflection and redirection (think 1" Styrofoam foam baffle boards)

 

[swatski]

Did you try jiffy seal? I've spent thousands on dynamat and similar products and jiffy seal is all I use now. Been using it for over 7 years with no issues on cars.

@Jgorm All great points!

I do not recall which brand of asphalt tape/mat i've used, I will try to dig it up in my notes later. It was a $25-35 a roll kind of a deal - I HAD TO give it a try (while spending insane amount of money on dynamat extreme and hashmat, LOL). In temps that were kind of in the 60+F rolling it onto flat horizontal parts/areas of fiberglass that were very smooth produced acceptable results as far as adhesion. However, when installed in the bulkheads and inside the gunnels (vertical, inside, raw fiberglass) - it was a shit show. I did not use a heat gun, that might have helped I would imagine, but since I was just trying things out, I did not want to get myslef in a bind.

I would totally imagine that in a car - over sheath metal - that stuff is probably as good as butyl rubber, and I would not hesitate to use it. But over fiberglass, especially vertical surfaces - no way.

I agree with everything you say about sound-absorbing foams, with some caveats:
1. things get wet, and some of those materials can make a moldy mess in a boat, even if those are "closed cell"
2. there are mods you may be planning down the road which may come int he way of soundproofing, for example PefectPass - that is mounted on the bulkheads in the engine comprtment; same with some electrical;

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[Jgorm]

Jiffy seal is probably 98% butyl rubber. I don't use a great gun. Agreed on making sure nothing gets moldy!

 

[swatski]

Jiffy seal is probably 98% butyl rubber. I don't use a great gun. Agreed on making sure nothing gets moldy!

I think I will need to check it out, I was not aware of this product. It claims to be a hybrid of asphalt and butyl, so that sounds like a great tip actually!
Have you had any experience installing it over raw fiberglass?

The other asphalt mat/rolls I was warning about where different and 100% asphalt roofing material, not membrane like this.

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