House battery - extra juice needed?

[Chickenfoot]

Hi All -

So last summer at the sand bar I became increasingly annoyed with my music not being loud enough, so I did what any fine American would do, I went and significantly upgraded the sound system by adding a 10" sub, amp and four 6" speakers across the part between the 2 levels of the transom (didn't want speakers on the tower) all JL brand.

So I have the start and house battery, but something tells me the house is going to need some help to get me through a full day of music.

I'm all thumbs mechanically and know nothing about cars much less boats so trying to be a good student and learn from those that know. I humbly ask again for some help with the following questions:

Is my assumption correct in that I will need some help/extra juice for the house battery?
i've heard of a trickle charger, does that help? is that kept on the boat and while i'm out or is that just overnight to ensure full charge for next day?
Am I just all wrong and need to be shown the way?

Thanks in advance!
Eric

 

[ShesCrafty]

Did you have an external amp prior to your upgrade... now having two? This might help others (more experienced in 3-battery set-ups) offer advice.

My only advice would be to watch out for listing, to the port side, if you add a third battery. Consider counter weight in the starboard rear quarter.

 

[Chickenfoot]

Hi Crafty - no, there was not an amp in place before this one being installed. so just the one. Thanks.

 

[meegwell]

Look up the specs on your current house battery. If you want to spend the money, there are usually considerable upgrades available (AGM or Gel).

 

[Coryd]

Get an onboard battery charger/conditioner to be sure the batteries are getting topped off after each outing and you should be fine. I use a ProMariner 20 amp onboard charger. I have eight 7.7's, two 8.8's, three 10" subs and 3 amps in my boat running off of two group 27 AGM deep cycles in my house bank and no issues in over 2 years. That being said, I do keep a NOCO jump pack onboard as well, just in case.

 

[Julian]

Before you add a third battery, you want to know if you NEED one. Have you killed your battery running this setup? Also, as others have said, you would upgrade your house battery to one with more capacity....that alone might extend your listening to cover you. And yes, you will want to put the boat on a charger when not in use. Adding an onboard charger is easy peasy. I installed a dual bank Guest charger in my boat - the more AMP capacity you buy, the faster it can charge your batteries. I went with 10/10 (10 amps times 2 banks/batteries).

 

[Chickenfoot]

Thanks cory/Julian. I will go ahead and add the onboard charger for sure and look to upgrade the house battery as well. I got the upgraded audio at the end of last season so I haven't been able to go through a full day on the water and with it playing all day, just thinking a bit ahead for once in my life haha. Thanks everyone for the assist.

 

[Chickenfoot]

Ok, solved the cleanout plug issue, now back to concentrating on this one.

So spec on current start and house battery is 12v 85ah. I ended up just going ahead and replacing the house battery yesterday with a deep cycle. installed that (boy I'm on a roll haha) and now....

So I know I def need a trickle charger for when I come back to the slip after being out on the water all day and playing music - is there one that is just head & shoulders above the rest better than others? do I need certain amount of volts considering battery is 12v?

My final question is this. So when I'm out on water and I'm playing my music at sand bar, I understand I should let batter get under say 11.5v and at that point I assume I either need to start it up and let alternator charge or is it ok/appropriate/the thing to do/ to have some type of portable charger that is charged up and just simply hook that to the house battery to charge it? if so, should that be a certain voltage? Can I have that hooked up to the batter while using it and would it charge or just maintain where it has dipped to and I really need to cut it off and let this external charger I've brought on board do its thing?

a lot to unpack. Thanks for all the help. I'm ready to go for a test fun this weekend.

 

[biffdotorg]

Before everyone jumps in and starts adding in what battery brand they bought, just understand the nature of what you have already and what you are trying to accomplish. The tips from those above are good points and very valid to your question. Start there.

If you have a separate start and house battery, then you are safe with putting any big deep cycle battery on the house side. Knowing that they will go through charge and drain cycles, and possibly discharging to almost dead, a deep cycle fits the bill. You are not limited to anything other than 12v and the size of your space.

Your stereo system/amps will tell you when you have dropped below a certain voltage for safe operation. If stock, the screen will give you a warning. If you are using third party amps, they usually have voltage protection and the amps will shut down first, even if the head unit is lit. (good amps anyway) You are safe to run them down, but get a charger on them right away when home, as you do not want to leave them in a depleted state.

As for charging, our boats have stators, not alternators. And there is no real amount of tubing or boarding or running that will charge a depleted deep cycle to capacity. Just assume you will need to put it on a charger. Trickle chargers and maintainers are just that, .5-3a maintainers to keep a battery charged when not in use. To do it properly a "charger" will start around 10a and be able to charge up a big deep cycle overnight.

If you do this on a regular basis, an onboard charger with thru-hull outlet is ideal. But any charger will work, it's just a matter of convenience. If you care to charge more than one battery without moving cables, a multi bank charger is ideal (optional) Many good brands, and folks will chime in. Trust the amazon reviews of the most common ones. It will be obvious by reviews and price.

Once you have a grasp on how much you run your stereo at "11" then you can decide if you need more than one house battery running in Parallel (tied together for capacity, not voltage) Many will find that one group 27 can run a 1000w amp and sub/speaker setup for days. Your mileage may vary, and don't spend the money till you need it, as it's easy to add additional capacity as needed.

Keep that in mind if buying a multi-bank charger, as it is nice to have a bank for each battery, as good chargers have the ability to understand the health of each battery that way, rather than having multiple batteries per bank and not knowing when one has failed.

Good luck,

 

[Gwade8808]

Get an onboard battery charger/conditioner to be sure the batteries are getting topped off after each outing and you should be fine. I use a ProMariner 20 amp onboard charger. I have eight 7.7's, two 8.8's, three 10" subs and 3 amps in my boat running off of two group 27 AGM deep cycles in my house bank and no issues in over 2 years. That being said, I do keep a NOCO jump pack onboard as well, just in case.

What brand of batteries are you running and how long can you play the stereo with them? Looking to upgrade my batteries as well.

 

[Coryd]

What brand of batteries are you running and how long can you play the stereo with them? Looking to upgrade my batteries as well.

I have two Duracell AGM deep cycles for my house bank and an Interstate starting battery. We anchor for probably 7-8 hours most Saturdays and Sundays, playing music the entire time. I always plug it in when the boat is home on the trailer.

 

[Gwade8808]

I have two Duracell AGM deep cycles for my house bank and an Interstate starting battery. We anchor for probably 7-8 hours most Saturdays and Sundays, playing music the entire time. I always plug it in when the boat is home on the trailer.

Awesome feedback thank you! I have a NOCO 20 amp 2 bank charger. Do you use "one bank" of your charger to charger the two house batteries (assuming there wired in parallel) and one to the starter or do you have a 3 bank charger?

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

One amp? You only need one battery. Even at that, JLs don't pull a ton of amps.... so anything deep cycle will get the job done.

 

[Coryd]

Awesome feedback thank you! I have a NOCO 20 amp 2 bank charger. Do you use "one bank" of your charger to charger the two house batteries (assuming there wired in parallel) and one to the starter or do you have a 3 bank charger?

I have a two bank charger and yes, my house bank is wired in parallel so it's connected to one bank on the charger.

 

[Gwade8808]

One amp? You only need one battery. Even at that, JLs don't pull a ton of amps.... so anything deep cycle will get the job done.

I have a 1000w Skar amp powering six 6.5's and a 300w powering 2 Skar 8's for now. Nothing crazy but we want to be able to anchor and not worry about running out of power for the day. I was looking at two because of the price. Either one Duracell group 27 deep cycle AGM or two duralast deep cycle group 27's. The duralast are only $99.00. The duracell is $160

Duralast 27 DC, 85 amp hr. $99

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/rv-battery/p/duralast-27dc-group-27-deep-cycle-marine-and-rv-battery/315062_0_0?cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:GEN:71700000069889792&gclid=CjwKCAjwjdOIBhA_EiwAHz8xm8JUyOXy-X025O4VWhnygTsgTuP4ubidwJh0-n5bAdcX1v6omhDy7hoCh1kQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Duralast AGM DC $160

Duracell AGM Marine Battery, Group Size 27M - Sam's Club

Buy Duracell AGM Marine Battery, Group Size 27M : Marine Batteries at SamsClub.com

www.samsclub.com

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

IMHO.

If you are going to install an onboard charger, make sure it has a separate charger for each battery. Smart chargers like the MinnKota have several charging modes- Bulk, Absorption, float, equalize.

If you are going to go with a flooded lead acid battery like the duralast, you need the ability to do an equalize charge. The MinnKota I have does a short equalize each time the charger cycles, and also has the ability to do a manual equalize charge which is recommended at least once a year. Also, each battery needs to have at least 10A of charger power to properly clean the plates and mix the electrolyte. Deep cycle batteries need these types of charging to maintain their output / performance and to assure the longest service life possible.

I would argue that having a separate quality charger for each battery is just as if not more important than the brand of battery you buy.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I have a 1000w Skar amp powering six 6.5's and a 300w powering 2 Skar 8's for now. Nothing crazy but we want to be able to anchor and not worry about running out of power for the day. I was looking at two because of the price. Either one Duracell group 27 deep cycle AGM or two duralast deep cycle group 27's. The duralast are only $99.00. The duracell is $160

Duralast 27 DC, 85 amp hr. $99

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/rv-battery/p/duralast-27dc-group-27-deep-cycle-marine-and-rv-battery/315062_0_0?cmpid=LIA:US:EN:AD:NL:1000000:GEN:71700000069889792&gclid=CjwKCAjwjdOIBhA_EiwAHz8xm8JUyOXy-X025O4VWhnygTsgTuP4ubidwJh0-n5bAdcX1v6omhDy7hoCh1kQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Duralast AGM DC $160

Duracell AGM Marine Battery, Group Size 27M - Sam's Club

Buy Duracell AGM Marine Battery, Group Size 27M : Marine Batteries at SamsClub.com

www.samsclub.com

Realistically a single 27 would probably be fine. For reference though I run two 6v golf cart batteries for 225AH. $89 each.

 

[Gwade8808]

IMHO.

If you are going to install an onboard charger, make sure it has a separate charger for each battery. Smart chargers like the MinnKota have several charging modes- Bulk, Absorption, float, equalize.

If you are going to go with a flooded lead acid battery like the duralast, you need the ability to do an equalize charge. The MinnKota I have does a short equalize each time the charger cycles, and also has the ability to do a manual equalize charge which is recommended at least once a year. Also, each battery needs to have at least 10A of charger power to properly clean the plates and mix the electrolyte. Deep cycle batteries need these types of charging to maintain their output / performance and to assure the longest service life possible.

I would argue that having a separate quality charger for each battery is just as if not more important than the brand of battery you buy.

I will have to look into the "equalize charge". I bought a NOCO genius 20amp (10 per bank). It has manual and maintenance mode and the ability to charge different battery types at the same time. I Will definitely have look into the equalize mode. Hopefully it can do it. Thank you for bringing it up!

 

[Gwade8808]

Realistically a single 27 would probably be fine. For reference though I run two 6v golf cart batteries for 225AH. $89 each.

Never thought of that!? I guess if you wire them in series you get 12v right. There is a golf cart shop next to where the boat is stored. May be worth a look! Thanks!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I will have to look into the "equalize charge". I bought a NOCO genius 20amp (10 per bank). It has manual and maintenance mode and the ability to charge different battery types at the same time. I Will definitely have look into the equalize mode. Hopefully it can do it. Thank you for bringing it up!

It appears NOCO‘s repair mode is what they call their equalize setting, remember equalization is for flooded lead acid batteries only.

There are not any charts that show the charging profiles, but it appears to be a quality unit and many members here have them in their boat and I’ve yet to see a complaint about them.

Its important that you have a quality charger like this unit. Plug the unit in as soon as possible after a day on the water to extend the life of your batteries.