Hydro lock recovery

[Npbern]

Hello everyone.

It's Wednesday for me. Monday night I pulled hte 2017 SX210 out to de-winterize it. Had a dealer winterize it, and I found a bunch of issues (who needs ignition coils bolted down?). Got to a point to start the engine. Hooked up the hose to the port engine, got it runnning, let it go for 10 minutes until it was properly warmed up.

Then the mistake happened. My neighbor stopped by and chatted, and I forgot to turn off the water. I finished getting the starboard engine going, and put the boat away for the night.

Tuesday (last night) I took the boat to my local launch, put it in, and couldn't even get the port engine to crank. I can hear the starter trying, but it can't crank the engine at all. Starboard started up without issue and idled happily.

I called my dealer and asked for service and they told me it's likely hydro lock from water back-flowing up from the hose.

The engine hasn't ever "Ran" after I unhooked the hose, I tried to start it, but that's it, no actual ignition. My plan tonight is to pull the plugs and try to crank it to get the water out, and do whatever else I need to recover it.

Couple questions: Obviously, I need to change the oil and filter. But, if it turns over, and I can get the water out, at what point do I risk trying to restart it?

Should I pull the plugs and, I dunno, shoot a hair dryer or compressed air into the spark plug holes to try to dry things out for a while? AT what point is it relatively safe to actually try to start it for real? Given this happened so recently, and the engine never started, I feel like I'm in not-the-worst case scenario here. Thoughts?

 

[anmut]

I would pull all the plugs, drain all the oil, fill back up with cheap oil, then run the motor without plugs in for 10-15 seconds, then change oil again, then run without plugs. I would wait until my 3-4th oil change isn't showing any milkyness and there's no water coming out of the spark plug holes.

Then I'd check compression and look for any variances between cylinders. Then I'd "fog" the cylinders, put the plugs back in, put the good oil back in, and see if she starts.

You may have gotten lucky...

 

[fatboyroy]

small chance of hydro lock since when water entered the motor is not running. You have very good chance that after few oil changes that you can get it running fine. Do what @anmut says above.

 

[Cambo]

Was the oil milky ?

How long do you think the hose was running with the motor off ?

Pull the plugs take a video while someone else turns over the motor to show what cylinders the water is coming out of later on post it here. listen if you here any weird knocking noises hydro lock causes internal parts to bend, this usually is from a running engine ingesting water unless you were cranking the starter like crazy I don't think it could bend anything . Spray some fogging oil in the cylinders before doing a compression test. If the compression looks similar and the oil is not milky start it then check again for milky oil you can run it for 15 seconds without the hose hooked up. Keep us posted hopefully it just blows out the water and nothing has happened.

 

[Npbern]

Three oil changes, then new, good oil. New filters, cranked the engine for 3 minutes (6, 30s cranks) w/o plugs. No water coking out out plug holes. Worth noting, none of the oil ever looked milky.

Shot compressed air in the cylinders to try to clean it up as much as possible. Put old plugs in, cranked engine for 30 seconds hoping to push any water I in the exhaust out. Let it sit for 10 minutes. Cranked it again. Replaced coils and tried to crank it for real.

It fired a briefly and then I heard a metallic ping and it died. Won’t crank now.

Realized, despite renting the compression tester I totally forgot to test It.

I’m such a fucking moron. Dropping it off at the dealer tomorrow morning. Puckering and preparing for a $7000 bill. So much for any vacations this summer.
Really wondering if it did fire Monday and I just didn’t hear it. Only other thing I can think is maybe the water pushed into the intake, too? I’m burnt out and way past my level of skill. Dunnning-Kruggered myself into an expense corner.

 

[Cambo]

Curious to see what the dealer says no milky oil no water in the cylinder . Any chance the wear ring has swelled on the impeller. How did it sound when it was cranking by any chance did you notice that the impellers sounded loud and clanky or make any scraping noise ?

Did you put the plug wires in the correct order?

Sounds like you listened to what to what @anmut mentioned changing the oil three times what a waste of time if it wasn't milky no need to change it. I was trying to politely let you no not to do something that's not necessary. Maybe you missed my post

 

[Npbern]

Curious to see what the dealer says no milky oil no water in the cylinder . Any chance the wear ring has swelled on the impeller. How did it sound when it was cranking by any chance did you notice that the impellers sounded loud and clanky or make any scraping noise ?

Did you put the plug wires in the correct order?

Sounds like you listened to what to what @anmut mentioned changing the oil three times what a waste of time if it wasn't milky no need to change it. I was trying to politely let you no not to do something that's not necessary. Maybe you missed my post

Ehh, the time wasted is more annoying that the cost. I had two 5qt containers of older 10-30, so I burned that up plus another two quarts of fomr 5w-20 I had to "flush" the oil. I was trying to be very cautious and oil is cheap. It sounded fine when I was cranking it w/o the plugs in, and even with the plugs in it sounded good. I'm pretty confident the coil wires are correct. I have the cover on so I can't go look right now, but I stared at the engine for a good while after the incident. Partially in disbelief and partially to see if there was something obvious I missed. Nothing stood out, and I also looked at it for a while before the live fire test.

One theory: I suspect the intake might have had water in it. I didn't tear it apart, but I should have. There were drops inside the air filter case I noticed when I took things apart after the incident. The interior of the intake was damp, as well. I'm starting to think there was enough water in that that one you have the more forcefull vacuum of the engine firing, maybe it pulled enough water in to do the damage. I'm a bit shocked, especially because I had leveled the boat between the last oil removal and the final refill, and I did the no-plugs cranking after that. I figured I'd have gotten something spurting out of the plug hole if there was a lot of water in the intake, but who knows.

Either way, off to the dealer it goes. Hopefully the damage isn't terminal.

 

[TeenGee]

Before you take it to the dealer, pull the plugs and crank it. If you find water repeat anmut's procedure. What do you have to lose other than some time and oil?

 

[Julian]

Ehh, the time wasted is more annoying that the cost. I had two 5qt containers of older 10-30, so I burned that up plus another two quarts of fomr 5w-20 I had to "flush" the oil. I was trying to be very cautious and oil is cheap. It sounded fine when I was cranking it w/o the plugs in, and even with the plugs in it sounded good. I'm pretty confident the coil wires are correct. I have the cover on so I can't go look right now, but I stared at the engine for a good while after the incident. Partially in disbelief and partially to see if there was something obvious I missed. Nothing stood out, and I also looked at it for a while before the live fire test.

One theory: I suspect the intake might have had water in it. I didn't tear it apart, but I should have. There were drops inside the air filter case I noticed when I took things apart after the incident. The interior of the intake was damp, as well. I'm starting to think there was enough water in that that one you have the more forcefull vacuum of the engine firing, maybe it pulled enough water in to do the damage. I'm a bit shocked, especially because I had leveled the boat between the last oil removal and the final refill, and I did the no-plugs cranking after that. I figured I'd have gotten something spurting out of the plug hole if there was a lot of water in the intake, but who knows.

Either way, off to the dealer it goes. Hopefully the damage isn't terminal.

You would be the first person that I know of who hydrolocked an engine by running it on the hose with it off. I know Yamaha says this is technically possible....but you'd need some serious water pressure to make that happen....gravity should result in it draining before it gets to the cylinders. I was wondering if there was something else at play when I first read your post.....especially since you said the oil wasn't milky.....did you get water out of the crankcase when you removed the oil? Did the cylinders fire water out when you first cranked it with no plugs in? I'm wondering if one of your safety cutouts is acting up.....but if you did get water out of the cylinders....then that would be definitive.

 

[Npbern]

You would be the first person that I know of who hydrolocked an engine by running it on the hose with it off. I know Yamaha says this is technically possible....but you'd need some serious water pressure to make that happen....gravity should result in it draining before it gets to the cylinders. I was wondering if there was something else at play when I first read your post.....especially since you said the oil wasn't milky.....did you get water out of the crankcase when you removed the oil? Did the cylinders fire water out when you first cranked it with no plugs in? I'm wondering if one of your safety cutouts is acting up.....but if you did get water out of the cylinders....then that would be definitive.

Cylinder three (closest to stern) was a forbidden super soaker when cranked it without plugs. Shot out a ton of water. Blew a hole through the two pieces of paper towel sitting on top of it to deflect anything that shoots out.

It’s at the dealer. I don’t have the cycles to keep troubleshooting it anymore. The next two weekends are booked Solid and I’m traveling for work all of next week and most of Memorial Day week.

 

[TeenGee]

Sorry to hear you don't have time to continue with trouble shooting.
Because cylinder 3 was full of water I doubt any water went out the intake valve. For water to get in the cylinder, the exhaust valve must be open. The only time the intake and exhaust valves could both be open is during the transition from exhaust to intake strokes when the piston passes TDC. Since cylinder 3 had "a ton of water" it was not near TDC and both valves could not have been open.

 

[anmut]

Sorry to hear you don't have time to continue with trouble shooting.
Because cylinder 3 was full of water I doubt any water went out the intake valve. For water to get in the cylinder, the exhaust valve must be open. The only time the intake and exhaust valves could both be open is during the transition from exhaust to intake strokes when the piston passes TDC. Since cylinder 3 had "a ton of water" it was not near TDC and both valves could not have been open.

That's a solid observation.

 

[Npbern]

Update: Skipper Buds was able to get the engine to turn over w/o plugs. Then they did the same thing I did, and were met with the same result once they fired it. At this point, how this happened isn't really germaine. Now I need to figure out how to get the boat sell-able ASAP.

They're putting together a parts list for a new engine. Per them, and another dealer near Chicago, a 2017 is too new for a rebuilt engine option. Further, Yamaha doesn't sell "crate engines", so it's a manual rebuild is the only option (or sourcing an engine from Ebay). Essentially, they said (and the other dealer in Chicago-land confirmed this) that best option to minimize labor costs is to essentially build the new engine and swap it. I'm...skeptical of this, but two authorized dealers told me the same thing. I don't have the skills or time to do this work myself.

I'm exploring an insurance claim, but not hopeful. It's likely due to the garden hose, but it may have happened when I launched it, I can't say for sure either way. I did have comprehensive on the boat, not just liability, so there's some hope, but not much.

I'm bracing for a $10k bill in all of this. Luckily, I own the boat outright, so this is just the equivalent of taking a bath on the boat sale, but still, it friggin hurts.

 

[Npbern]

Sorry to hear you don't have time to continue with trouble shooting.
Because cylinder 3 was full of water I doubt any water went out the intake valve. For water to get in the cylinder, the exhaust valve must be open. The only time the intake and exhaust valves could both be open is during the transition from exhaust to intake strokes when the piston passes TDC. Since cylinder 3 had "a ton of water" it was not near TDC and both valves could not have been open.

Yeah, I thought about this for a while too. IT makes me wonder if something else is going on, like the head gasket failed or something. I can't figure out where the water could have come from after I evac'd it, so it makes me think maybe something else did happen, or it did fire at the launch I just don't remember it. Either way, water under the hull.

 

[TeenGee]

Yeah, I thought about this for a while too. IT makes me wonder if something else is going on, like the head gasket failed or something. I can't figure out where the water could have come from after I evac'd it, so it makes me think maybe something else did happen, or it did fire at the launch I just don't remember it. Either way, water under the hull.

If it turns without the plugs, did they do a compression test?

 

[Npbern]

If it turns without the plugs, did they do a compression test?

I’ll ask next time I talk to them. I forgot to in last discussion.

 

[TeenGee]

I’ll ask next time I talk to them. I forgot to in last discussion.

I wonder if a stuck open fuel injector could hydrolock a cylinder.
Or maybe a blown head gasket allowing coolant into the cylinder but not out.

 

[jocolo21]

Remove the plug and crank the engine to remove all the water