I'm contemplating making a DIY speed control system

[d_coyne1984]

I really want to add Perfect pass to my AR192, but I just can't justify dropping over a grand into a bout that I owe money on, with my current budget, so I started thinking... I know, dangerous.

Yamaha already has an actuator built in to the throttle control in the back of the boat (if I'm not mistaken) which is utilized by the no wake mode/cruise system. So why can't I automate the control of that to keep a constant speed by using the paddle wheel signal and a little Arduino action?

Based on my brief research the paddle wheel produce either a square wave or a sine wave signal. So I am guessing the faster you go, the higher the frequency. I know the Arduino has pulse width modulation (PWM) inputs so I should be able to map that out and create a speed profile in the Arduino or at the very least, a very basic system that rather than holding RPM, it will hold the speed, bumping the throttle up or down based on paddle wheel input, so you would set the speed just like you would the cruise control in your car. It probably won't be as accurate as GPS control, but hey it should be good enough for wakeboarding at about 1/60th of the price.

The only real issue I see is if the stock paddle wheel is sinusoidal instead of square in which case I would swap it out to a square wave transducer to utilize the PWM inputs of the Arduino. Of course there is the distinct possibility that I burn out the actuator from over use...

Please let me know if you see any flaws or other issues in the idea!!!

 

[Mainah]

@d_coyne1984 - I had a similar idea and got it working but was not happy with it (read the September 29th post). https://jetboaters.net/threads/diy-gps-speed-control-project.11103/

For your boat it would be much simpler though assuming you have both no wake and rpm cruise (I don't know with you model) and don't have Connext. I recommend a Mega or a Due for the horse power and a external GPS module. Simply tap into the existing cruise switch and add a momentary switch for set/on (think car cruise control). Then have the Arduino iterate up and down to the existing cruise button as needed to maintain speed. Hopefully you are more successful than I was and that the 200 rpm step is something you can live with. Another method would be using the Arduino to override the ECM TPS. I don't have any experience messing with ECM code so I did not attempt that.

I do recommend against the paddle wheel as they have a variance depending on how deep you are in the water, turning, the tendency of hall effect sensors (this is how the paddle wheel works) to skip and cause a rouge reading every so often, etc. GPS on the other hand will allow you to play with some logic/algorithms based on refresh rate, rate of turn, rate of acceleration, rate of deceleration, etc. just keep in mind rider weight and aggressiveness will impact that some. There are already some libraries out there for you to work with when it comes to the GPS module. I had to develop a custom board and libraries because of Connext on my boat so what I developed will not work for you.

Good luck!

 

[swatski]

I really want to add Perfect pass to my AR192, but I just can't justify dropping over a grand into a bout that I owe money on, with my current budget, so I started thinking... I know, dangerous.

Yamaha already has an actuator built in to the throttle control in the back of the boat (if I'm not mistaken) which is utilized by the no wake mode/cruise system. So why can't I automate the control of that to keep a constant speed by using the paddle wheel signal and a little Arduino action?

Based on my brief research the paddle wheel produce either a square wave or a sine wave signal. So I am guessing the faster you go, the higher the frequency. I know the Arduino has pulse width modulation (PWM) inputs so I should be able to map that out and create a speed profile in the Arduino or at the very least, a very basic system that rather than holding RPM, it will hold the speed, bumping the throttle up or down based on paddle wheel input, so you would set the speed just like you would the cruise control in your car. It probably won't be as accurate as GPS control, but hey it should be good enough for wakeboarding at about 1/60th of the price.

The only real issue I see is if the stock paddle wheel is sinusoidal instead of square in which case I would swap it out to a square wave transducer to utilize the PWM inputs of the Arduino. Of course there is the distinct possibility that I burn out the actuator from over use...

Please let me know if you see any flaws or other issues in the idea!!!

From what I understand of @Mainah write-ups, the 200RPM step is going to be a huge issue, and you would need some kind of adjustment mechanism to prevent the DIY system from going crazy trying to chase and match your set speed. The PP Stargazer uses something called KDW for adjustable pull characteristics -- you can set it up in a range somewhere between 20 and 150 or whatever to make the system respond/track speed more or less aggressively. When NOT set up properly, it can be very unpleasant.

I am at the same place now with trying to decide, and 1k+ is a hard pill to swallow!

But on the bright side, if you will ever want to sell the boat -- being able to list "Perfect Pass/Stargazer - wakeboard/ski GPS-digital speed control system" could make a big difference in finding a buyer.

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[Mainah]

@swatski- The adjustable pull is kind of what the logic/algorithm is for. So if set speed is X and current speed is Y and rate of acceleration is Z and rate of turn is A then do BC else do loop. That would be a lot of code to account for hard coded variables so you have to apply some math and make it an algorithm.

The real issue is that it needs to refresh so many times per second and the RPMS jumping up and down by fixed 200 rpm increments sucks. Sure you can let it refresh and only take action if X time has lapsed or the speed difference is in whole MPH but then it is only half way to what perfect pass is. This DIY route would likely work pretty well for surfing except when the sweet spot is that 100 rpm in between. Wake boarding and skiing just applies too many load changes too quickly. Well at least once you get good enough at it and if you own a boat that should happen pretty quickly.

My opinion on this one is that the two ways it could work as good as perfect pass are hacking or spoofing the aps/tps inputs and outputs on the ECM. I have no experience with ECM programming and am not ballzy enough to make my first go at it on my new boat which is already a frankenstein thanks to the way Connext was integrated or rather put on top of the pre-connext system and wiring, Another way would be literally cloning perfect pass with an Arduino but then you need to fabricate hardware, buy stepper motors and electronic components, wire everything, figure out the programming and spend many hours on the water debugging and optimizing the code. I added all of that up decided to cut bait where I was at. I did learn a fair bit about N2K and the electronics in our boat which is nice and I do love DIY projects but I love wake boarding more and there is already a solution out there ... Perfect Pass.

All of that said I will never discourage a DIYer from trying something that I failed at. Lots of ideas and experience out there and if someone else can succeed where I failed then hats off to them and hopefully they share how they did it.

@d_coyne1984 - I am happy to consult on this one if you still want to give it a try.

 

[FloJet]

So my question on this is why do Yamaha advertise Cruise control when obviously you cannot get the boat set at a desired speed? My experience with the cruise control is it either picks up speed or drops speed depending on water and wind conditions. That's not much of cruise control to me? Class action lawsuit?

 

[swatski]

So my question on this is why do Yamaha advertise Cruise control when obviously you cannot get the boat set at a desired speed? My experience with the cruise control is it either picks up speed or drops speed depending on water and wind conditions. That's not much of cruise control to me? Class action lawsuit?

There is cruise control and it works very well, but it keeps constant RPM not speed. Which is nice for cruising but not adequate for water sports.

EDIT: I think you already know that, LOL. Sorry.

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[Mainah]

There is cruise control and it works very well, but it keeps constant RPM not speed. Which is nice for cruising but not adequate for water sports.

EDIT: I think you already know that, LOL. Sorry.

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I think they call it Cruise Assist and probably with a trademark just to avoid legal entanglements

 

[captras]

OK.....this conversation with algorithms, square wave, sine wave, X,Y,Z makes this simple retired AH-64 pilot feel pretty stupid But I am impressed that there are some really smart people on here!

 

[Mainah]

Would this work? I know nothing on this topic but found others that used this product labeled "redneck perfect pass"

http://steadypass.webs.com/

Seems to be under $200 and is a complete DIY kit.

This is pretty cool. This guy had his own boards made based on an Arduino design and hardly redneck. This is very close to how perfect pass works. Right now it is built for just one engine but of course the input output (I/O yes this is also a computer term as well as a boat term) could be expanded and the processor/ram upgraded to support twin engines. I thought up a very similar design but what scared me about the two cable actuation options that he has is what happens when you need to throttle down very quickly? The perfect pass mounting bracket is cool because it accounts for the throttles being pulled back and shuts off. It is not clear how this steady pass system does that. Did you first have to cancel the cruise control? It may only take a split second but it is not intuitive when that type of situation arises and nothing is worse risking life or injury for me. A feedback linear servo or throttle limit switch could be employed instead in that design but that would require a hardware and software redesign not to mention feedback servos are pricey. Now your hand will be stronger than the servo so that will override it but at what point does the servo stop trying to override your hand movements? Will it just throttle back up? All of that is assuming you attach it direct to the throttle cable and the spring pressure of the APS is not required. Another issue is that I don't think those boards or displays are water/moisture proof. A conformal coating would work for the boards but a better display or housing would be needed.

For those with single engines that can solder and follow instructions this could be a viable option with the above concerns taken into consideration. It sounds like this guy has put the project on hold but I do hope that he is successful and and overcomes some of the limitations for a Yamaha jet boat in the next design.

As an FYI the system that I had built automatically cut off when the throttles were pulled back just as cruise assist already did. Cancel on the joystick pad also canceled it as well. I fell very strongly that safety needs to be a primary concern. Imagine not being able to control the throttle on the boat.

 

[FloJet]

Cruise assist huh? Sounds like rip off to me! It does not assist me what so ever. At the end of the summer, I kinda figured out little about how it works. If cruising and let say you press cruise control one level up. It will move up to about 2-3 mph max, 2 push ups 4-6 max. Same with cruising down. But I need to experiment more with that. I can't understand the + up and -down yet on this mis advertised cruise assist.

 

[swatski]

Cruise assist huh? Sounds like rip off to me! It does not assist me what so ever. At the end of the summer, I kinda figured out little about how it works. If cruising and let say you press cruise control one level up. It will move up to about 2-3 mph max, 2 push ups 4-6 max. Same with cruising down. But I need to experiment more with that. I can't understand the + up and -down yet on this mis advertised cruise assist.

It's not too bad, really. ALMOST enough for pulling the kids, it just requires frequent adjustments, but I find it easier (moving up and down RPM by pushing those buttons) than moving the throttles in some situations.

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[Mainah]

OK.....this conversation with algorithms, square wave, sine wave, X,Y,Z makes this simple retired AH-64 pilot feel pretty stupid But I am impressed that there are some really smart people on here!

Are we smart or do we just have too much time to play with electronics? I will admit it. I am a bit of a geek ... ok no secret there. A geek that bulls eyes quarters at the range, played with explosives in the Army, hunts, is a decent mechanic/woodworker/fabricator, never calls a contractor (except for drywall), and does a bunch of sports. Of course in my case being geek is why I can afford a boat Now I would love to learn to fly at some point but don't know when I will ever find the time.

 

[FloJet]

Yup Yup I agree. I really didn't notice much until one of my friends kept telling to not slow down. I was like I'm not. Released what was happening and started to compensate for it. So true not really bad but how hard would have it been for them to make all the 24' like that? Only in America you pay more for more for more for more for more.

 

[FloJet]

Geek? What's that? Knowledge is power! Don't let anyone ever say different. If folks aren't seeking knowledge in this meaningless life, I don't know what to tell them.

 

[Mainah]

Cruise assist huh? Sounds like rip off to me! It does not assist me what so ever. At the end of the summer, I kinda figured out little about how it works. If cruising and let say you press cruise control one level up. It will move up to about 2-3 mph max, 2 push ups 4-6 max. Same with cruising down. But I need to experiment more with that. I can't understand the + up and -down yet on this mis advertised cruise assist.

It does not seek to move your speed up and down. It steps the RPMs up a down a set amount (200 rpm I think I recall). The result of the RPM step is a change in speed. The RPM step works because the ECU changes the voltage (good old 5v analog TPS style) going to the throttle body which is why the rpm change is so precise.

I agree that you likely think something else when you hear cruise assist.

 

[FloJet]

Yup! Class action lawsuite because they tricked me! I'm so dumb I thought I was buying a boat with cruise control like my Truck

 

[Bruce]

I believe the twin engined perfect pass, at least the MR-1 version simply sends the same level of throttle instruction (voltage) to the solenoids for both engines without any concern for actual RPM.

 

[captras]

Are we smart or do we just have too much time to play with electronics? I will admit it. I am a bit of a geek ... ok no secret there. A geek that bulls eyes quarters at the range, played with explosives in the Army, hunts, is a decent mechanic/woodworker/fabricator, never calls a contractor (except for drywall), and does a bunch of sports. Of course in my case being geek is why I can afford a boat Now I would love to learn to fly at some point but don't know when I will ever find the time.

what ever the reason.....I am impressed. The flying thing....now that I can identify with. Still flying myself.....cant believe I get paid for it too

 

[captras]

as for true cruise control....the connext with the drive mode really does maintain a constant speed....when it works, it is very good....Mine has gone out on me twice now....boat back in the shop. I went out the first month I had the boat....they fixed it....lasted about 2 months and started doing the same thing. I think the square wave, and the sine wave got fucked up and I broke my algorithm OUCH

 

[swatski]

I believe the twin engined perfect pass, at least the MR-1 version simply sends the same level of throttle instruction (voltage) to the solenoids for both engines without any concern for actual RPM.

There are those little servo motors pullling a rope that adjusts the cable/potentiometer operating the throttle body. The whole thing is surprisingly low tech, other than the GPS part.
It works though! and has been time tested over and over. But when I first looked at it- it did seem like something out of a RC model store...