Kids started wakeboarding, without going to a dedicated boat, AR195 or AR210 for better wake?

[Sugarcharged]

Hey folks, I searched but couldn't find anything specific on this, is there a difference between the single engine AR195 vs the twin engine of the AR210 related to the wake it makes for wakeboarding and tubing? I need a more flexible boat moving from a pontoon here, therefore, not really interested in a dedicated wakeboard boat at this time. We like the space of the AR210 but having a small family we would be OK on a AR195. Thanks for any inputs, looking for the next season buy or over the winter.

 

[bobbie]

21 footer all day.

 

[anmut]

Go bigger for sure - We're a family of two adults, one 6yo, and occasional one 19 year old. It would be cramped if we didn't have a 21' boat. Don't forget all their friends that will want to come too!

 

[Enduro900]

Ok like you I want something that can do all the family activities including wake surfing (assuming anyone in my family can learn how to do it).

With all the talk of “dedicated tow boats” throwing out the biggest/better waves, I have found a lot of videos lately of families wake surfing just fine from Jetboats (Yamaha’s and Scarabs).

It seems it takes a lot of ballast to form the wave, but again I’ve seen some pretty good family fun wakesurfing with the decent sized waves.

Interesting the threads I see from Jetboater wake surfing they are using 1500-2,000 lbs. Any v-drive dedicated tow boat with 1500-2,000lb ballast won’t make competition waves either....I think they use 3,000-4,000 lbs of ballast so its not a fair fight to begin with (though maybe those v-drives can handle that much ballast whereas a Jet would sink?).

I’m in the same boat (pun added). I don’t want a v-drive. If your kids are fairly light a 19ft will give you something to surf from, but a 21fter will probably give you a better platform if you can swing it.

Here is a YouTube video surfing behind a AR195:

Looks perfectly doable to me!

And here is a wakesurfing video behind the AR210:

Good luck! BTW I am all over the place (19ft, 21 ft, 25ft, Yamaha or Scarab, buy a wake ready or go cheaper and build it myself later piecemeal, etc.).

Regardless I live in Michigan, my wife is a teacher so our summer is basically done now so I’ll wait until spring before I pursue something anyway...hopefully by then the market will cool down a bit....

 

[Sugarcharged]

Great replies, THANK YOU. Appreciate it. I believe the wake from a twin engine is better for wakeboarding than from a single, at least reading some information I found on this forum. Not planning on wakesurfing here since the lake I'm in restricts the use of wake devices. I started to look at the Mastercraft NXT20 but the initial price point will be likely higher and I won't be using a lot of its capabilities. More and more either an AR210 or 212S are the best option for our use. Our family really like the "J" seating format of the AR210 but the 212S has the twin 1.8L motors and +$11K more. Similar to Enduro900 here, I'm probably all over the place as well.

 

[HangOutdoors]

@Enduro900 Summer isn't over till the kids won't get into the water anymore. Then the real fun begins.... Salmon and Steelhead fishing!

 

[Sugarcharged]

Ok like you I want something that can do all the family activities including wake surfing (assuming anyone in my family can learn how to do it).

With all the talk of “dedicated tow boats” throwing out the biggest/better waves, I have found a lot of videos lately of families wake surfing just fine from Jetboats (Yamaha’s and Scarabs).

It seems it takes a lot of ballast to form the wave, but again I’ve seen some pretty good family fun wakesurfing with the decent sized waves.

Interesting the threads I see from Jetboater wake surfing they are using 1500-2,000 lbs. Any v-drive dedicated tow boat with 1500-2,000lb ballast won’t make competition waves either....I think they use 3,000-4,000 lbs of ballast so its not a fair fight to begin with (though maybe those v-drives can handle that much ballast whereas a Jet would sink?).

I’m in the same boat (pun added). I don’t want a v-drive. If your kids are fairly light a 19ft will give you something to surf from, but a 21fter will probably give you a better platform if you can swing it.

Here is a YouTube video surfing behind a AR195:

Looks perfectly doable to me!

And here is a wakesurfing video behind the AR210:

Good luck! BTW I am all over the place (19ft, 21 ft, 25ft, Yamaha or Scarab, buy a wake ready or go cheaper and build it myself later piecemeal, etc.).

Regardless I live in Michigan, my wife is a teacher so our summer is basically done now so I’ll wait until spring before I pursue something anyway...hopefully by then the market will cool down a bit....

Thanks for the videos and indeed, we are close to be on the same boat. The lake where I am here in Indiana has some restrictions that help on the decision, for example, max. speed is 40mph on weekends and holidays, max. length for speed boat is 21' and the latest now is restriction on wake surfing utilizing wake devices. I have to check the MC NXT20 just to check it out.

 

[OrangeTJ]

Great replies, THANK YOU. Appreciate it. I believe the wake from a twin engine is better for wakeboarding than from a single, at least reading some information I found on this forum. Not planning on wakesurfing here since the lake I'm in restricts the use of wake devices. I started to look at the Mastercraft NXT20 but the initial price point will be likely higher and I won't be using a lot of its capabilities. More and more either an AR210 or 212S are the best option for our use. Our family really like the "J" seating format of the AR210 but the 212S has the twin 1.8L motors and +$11K more. Similar to Enduro900 here, I'm probably all over the place as well.

I would think that the reason folks are recommending the 21 has more to do with the size of the boat than the quality of the wake behind it. Jets, in general, produce frothy wakes and a rough table that are less than ideal for wakeboarding. A twin is just going to do more of that. That said, the extra power of a twin is nice to have and there's no arguing against more space if it works for your situation.

 

[Jetboatdave]

Thanks for the videos and indeed, we are close to be on the same boat. The lake where I am here in Indiana has some restrictions that help on the decision, for example, max. speed is 40mph on weekends and holidays, max. length for speed boat is 21' and the latest now is restriction on wake surfing utilizing wake devices. I have to check the MC NXT20 just to check it out.

I am in Indiana too, between the AR195 and the AR 210. No restrictions yet...on my lake. Having a similar struggle on which to get. Which Indiana lake are you in and what other factors are you considering. One thing I thought of is the Hp is not that much different between the two and is probably made up for in weight difference between the two boats. Plus with the twin engine I would have double the maintenance. With the 195 I can store it in my heated lake house garage As it would fit compared to the 210 over the winter.

 

[Jetboatdave]

Let me know what you decide and why?

 

[HangOutdoors]

The twin engines have more low end pulling power and don't cavitate as much.

 

[Jetboatdave]

The twin engines have more low end pulling power and don't cavitate as much.

Thanks. What causes the difference regarding cavitation between a single and double engine?

 

[Jetboatdave]

The twin engines have more low end pulling power and don't cavitate as much.

Another quick question...my wife has said she wants to be able to slalom ski and pull the young relatives on a tube. She is very concerned about the turbulent water thrown by a jet.

 

[tdonoughue]

I can contribute as to the tube: That is mainly what my family has done. Tubing is very easy with the jetboat. Biggest complaint is the spray (which will hit riders in the face if they are directly behind the boat. Two solutions for that: a) longer line (could be a safety issue, as that gives more whip and more distance over which some idiot on a jet ski may try to cut between) and 2) learn to flip the kids to the outside of the wake. Not a hard maneuver, but takes a little trick. Decelerate a bit, turn one way, turn back and as you turn back accelerate a little. That will cause just enough 'whip' to pop the tube over the wake. Once on the outside, the wake will keep the tube out and make the ride much better for them.

 

[Jetboatdave]

I can contribute as to the tube: That is mainly what my family has done. Tubing is very easy with the jetboat. Biggest complaint is the spray (which will hit riders in the face if they are directly behind the boat. Two solutions for that: a) longer line (could be a safety issue, as that gives more whip and more distance over which some idiot on a jet ski may try to cut between) and 2) learn to flip the kids to the outside of the wake. Not a hard maneuver, but takes a little trick. Decelerate a bit, turn one way, turn back and as you turn back accelerate a little. That will cause just enough 'whip' to pop the tube over the wake. Once on the outside, the wake will keep the tube out and make the ride much better for them.

What length tube rope do you use?

 

[marcham]

We use 70 ft

 

[HangOutdoors]

I use 60' 4k rope + 10' 4k extension + 5' 4k bungee extension on the tower. Works great.

Slalom skiing no problem, barefooting no problem, tubing no problem, dual tubes no problem, wake boarding no problem, ZUP board no problem. Super Mable HD 3 person tube no problem. Plenty of pulling power.

 

[Jetboatdave]

I use 60' 4k rope + 10' 4k extension + 5' 4k bungee extension on the tower. Works great.

Slalom skiing no problem, barefooting no problem, tubing no problem, dual tubes no problem, wake boarding no problem, ZUP board no problem. Super Mable HD 3 person tube no problem. Plenty of pulling power.

Thank you. Why does a single have more cavitation than a twin?

 

[Jetboatdave]

I use 60' 4k rope + 10' 4k extension + 5' 4k bungee extension on the tower. Works great.

Slalom skiing no problem, barefooting no problem, tubing no problem, dual tubes no problem, wake boarding no problem, ZUP board no problem. Super Mable HD 3 person tube no problem. Plenty of pulling power.

Why the bungee extension on the tower? I would think for all those things you would want no give? What am I missing? Also, what is the lbs pull rating for the Yamaha towers I wonder? I guess if they can pull wake boarders using it the other stuff is fine too.

 

[Jetboatdave]

We use 70 ft

Have you ever had any issue pulling with your Ar195. That was the direction I was going until @HangOutdoors mentioned better low end with the twins in the ar210.