Krypt HLCD speakers--anyone know anything about them?

[Julian]

Anyone have any experience with Krypt HLCD (Horn loaded compression driver) speakers? HLCD is the preferred type of speaker for projecting sound far out behind the boat to people on tubes etc..... Anyone tried this brand?

http://www.bulletlines.com/HLCD-Wakeboard-Tower-Speaker-p/465.htm

 

[David Analog]

A Wakeworld search on Ken Land, owner of Bulletlines, will reveal some scary history.
The Bulletlines HLCD is a cheap rip-off of the original Bullet HollowPoint HLCD.
6.5" HLCDs are essentially dinosaurs now, and for good reason. Loud? Yes, but only the treble projects. Horribly harsh because the 6.5" midbass is seriously over-matched by the horn-loaded-compression-driver (the tweeter). There are countless other design flaws in a 6.5" HLCD proaxial, like for example, the horn throat passes through the center of the midbass voice coil. That voice coil is very large. Power handling is high but the midbass sensitivity is low, thereby compounding the poor midbass to horn tweeter efficiency ratio. That also creates a midbass spider radius that is too small for good midbass production.
I wouldn't consider any HLCD unless it was an 8" or 10" model.

 

[RightStuff]

Thanks @David Analog for the analysis as always! What would you recommend for getting a good throw for sound? I had thought HLCD was the way to go if you wanted sound out far enough for a boarder to hear while in tow.

I would like to know more about the scary history you mention, I didn't see much on Wakeworld, but didn't spend much time either searching either (suppose to be working right now!). Care to elaborate or post a link?

@Julian: I was thinking about these (in the 7" size) for tower speakers, they seemed to be a good balance of price/quality compared to the rest of the options out there. Thanks for posting what I was thinking about posting to get some more info.

 

[Julian]

Thanks @David Analog , was guessing it was too good to be true....just don't like the idea of anything larger up there as I'm 6'1 and already bang my head on 6.5" cans....putting 8 or 10" cans up there might give me a concussion! LOL

 

[txav8r]

The only reason to put an HLCD speaker in your boat is to project the music to distant points behind the boat. If you want music back there, you know your going to have compromises to get it there. If you use a product that distorts, or can't handle the power requirements, or is too large for the boat, or whatever...you don't get music to the point you want it. And if that is the case, why go to the trouble? @Julian , maybe a good compromise is a good near field speaker, like the JL 770, powered correctly, it will certainly reach your wake range, but I don't know about tube distance. For that, I expect @David Analog is right in that you need to consider the larger cans. It is all a compromise of some sort. I know that those HLCD's are some power hungry speakers, so consider too the room, budget, and time constraints on running them. Even a small version that is too good to be true, may not sound as good even at 40 or 50 feet as would a couple of well powered JL770's. At some point there is a crossover.

 

[David Analog]

There's no secret about how an HLCD provides more projection (or 'throw'). The tweeter is simply louder.
The HLCD was created in the late 1920s as a means to fill an auditorium with sound in an era when power amplifiers (long before solid state) were limited to a few watts. And typically the compression horn tweeter is mated to a 12" or 15" woofer operating in a giant bass-reflex enclosure. A 15" midbass in a tower enclosure the size of a 50 gallon drum just isn't practical. So the challenge is getting a midbass driver to compliment the dominant acoustic power of the horn tweeter. Well, you really can't.
Several options:
The JL Audio 7.7" coaxial in the 'T' version is uniquely a true acoustic-suspension driver and provides midbass from a compact pod. The sound quality of this speaker, when correctly powered, is as good as any larger speaker. The flipside is that it is not great at long range projection, at least when compared to an HLCD.
The Wetsounds Icon8 is a conventional (non-HLCD) 8" coaxial in a modest sized pod previously used for the 6.5" model. Louder. Better projection. Good near field sound quality as compared to a great majority of HLCDs. You can also add the JL Audio 880 to this category.
The Wetsounds Rev8 is an 8" HLCD. Same size as the Icon8. Handles more power. Needs more power. Plays louder. Projects farther. Big enough to avoid much of the lopsided domination from a horn tweeter in smaller alternatives.

There is a law. You can have loud. You can have linear. You can have a bit of midbass. You can have a small pod. However, you cannot accomplish all these attributes in a single product.

 

[Julian]

I think that if a wakeboarder wants to hear good clean loud music - a cheaper and better alternative would be a waterproof mp3 player! Also less noise pollution that way! I can see how these would be ok for wake boarders....with all the wind, water and engine noise....hearing any music would be a challenge....getting bass out that far would be massively expensive....so driving a loud horn tweeter would be the cheapest simplest to begin with. As David says....if you want all of the attributes, your going to have to pay for them all!

 

[OperationROL]

Julian, I had the Bullet Neo Hollowpoints on my former SX230. I loved them. It is true they project further than most and for the most part, I think I had them tuned well enough that they were not to tinny. At that time I also had a 12 inch Alpine sub that projected pretty good as well. As David hinted, if you are going for HLCD, go Bullet Hollowpoint all the way.

In my current boat, I choose to go with the JL 880's. Wow, they project just as far as the Hollowpoints and the range of sound is awesome. I recommend the JL 880s to anyone that wants a great combination of projection and clean crisp sound throughout the spectrum.

 

[FloJet]

Haha nice post all. But not to hijack it but if you want the top of them all. You have to go WS Rev 10s. I'm sure everything else sounds nice, but if willing to spend the money, no tower speaker can compete with them. My two rev410s can compete with even 6 rev 10s. Two Rev 10s will give you more throw than any other HLCD on the market. But like everyone stated you will have to invest in amps to properly power them. But nothing no one does with any other high end speaker. But in my experience with many many wake tower speakers, WS is by far the best out there right now. Hands down. The clarity of them at high end volume when properly powered and tuned is unmatched at this time.

 

[David Analog]

Haha nice post all. But not to hijack it but if you want the top of them all. You have to go WS Rev 10s. I'm sure everything else sounds nice, but if willing to spend the money, no tower speaker can compete with them. My two rev410s can compete with even 6 rev 10s. Two Rev 10s will give you more throw than any other HLCD on the market. But like everyone stated you will have to invest in amps to properly power them. But nothing no one does with any other high end speaker. But in my experience with many many wake tower speakers, WS is by far the best out there right now. Hands down. The clarity of them at high end volume when properly powered and tuned is unmatched at this time.

Pod displacement is just as crucial to midbass extension as is driver surface area. No doubt the Rev10 is at the top of the totem pole, with the Rev410 being even better. Both are massive. A component of this discussion, per the OP, is looking for smaller options. And still there are going to be those who prefer near field listening with the linearity and SQ of a direct radiating coaxial rather than an HLCD....knowing they will give up considerable projection distance.

 

[FloJet]

Pod displacement is just as crucial to midbass extension as is driver surface area. No doubt the Rev10 is at the top of the totem pole, with the Rev410 being even better. Both are massive. A component of this discussion, per the OP, is looking for smaller options. And still there are going to be those who prefer near field listening with the linearity and SQ of a direct radiating coaxial rather than an HLCD....knowing they will give up considerable projection distance.

I agree

 

[FloJet]

I do believe that if smaller footprint is what is requested to still look into Wetsounds. Icon8 or even rev8. I don't think there is any other setup in 8" or below that will outperform it. But really WS is more geared ones who are really trying to rock the waves. They can be annoying and troublesome for other boaters so really depends on what you are trying to accomplish with them. We do alot of floating at beaches playing volleyball and all so we need our stereos to project down here.

 

[Deuces WIld]

I went cheap and regret that decision. I bought the Krypt 6.5 HLCD with the Bullet Lines Cans. Powered them with a bridged JL Audio 400/4. They play pretty loud, but you have to crank them get sound back to a wake rider. With the can right over my head as the captain they sound like crap and I need ear plugs to be near them for any period of time. The speakers lasted one season before one of them stopped working. The money spent was a throw away and now I'm starting over. My current thinking is to abandon sound to a wake rider and to focus on in/near boat sound with enough to project to surf rider. I'm 6'3" and thought a larger can would be a problem for me. In reality, I can bash my head just fine on a 6.5 can and have learned to avoid/dodge that experience. I would learn just the same with a larger can that can project better bass.

My decision comes down to putting something like the Wet Sounds XS-650 in the existing cans or starting over with a Wet Sounds Rev 8 that David/Earmark told me a couple years ago was the way to go for both in boat and rider sound. I should have listened to David.

 

[FloJet]

We all live and learn. But in the end you can never go wrong with wet sounds. I have great knowledge about them so if you have any questions just let me know.

 

[Julian]

@Dueces WIld Yup....as with most things....you get what you pay for....I've decided that people behind the boat get to have fun boarding (not listening to music), while those in the boat will have tunes!

 

[OperationROL]

@Dueces WIld , I a also 6'3, but have the JL 880's which have a low profile mount. They are a potential hazard but you'll get use to them. Everyone in our boat (including) my 5'6" wife has hit their head at least once. She did it while standing on the seat while cleaning the tower, but my oldest (6'2") and I did it while at the helm the first weekend we installed them. However, no one has done it since. Your subconscious mind knows they're there and avoids them.

 

[Julian]

@Dueces WIld , I a also 6'3, but have the JL 880's which have a low profile mount. They are a potential hazard but you'll get use to them. Everyone in our boat (including) my 5'6" wife has hit their head at least once. She did it while standing on the seat while cleaning the tower, but my oldest (6'2") and I did it while at the helm the first weekend we installed them. However, no one has done it since. Your subconscious mind knows they're there and avoids them.

Apparently my subconscious mind is an IDIOT.....I keep hitting my head on the cans in my boat! LOL Probably did it 5-10 times this last summer! I moved them further out to the sides and this helped some.

 

[jawsf16]

This is exactly why my tower speakers are mounted above the tower. Too dangerous for tall people!

 

[FloJet]

@Dueces WIld , I a also 6'3, but have the JL 880's which have a low profile mount. They are a potential hazard but you'll get use to them. Everyone in our boat (including) my 5'6" wife has hit their head at least once. She did it while standing on the seat while cleaning the tower, but my oldest (6'2") and I did it while at the helm the first weekend we installed them. However, no one has done it since. Your subconscious mind knows they're there and avoids them.

I so agree with that! To be honest I really don't understand why every complains about tower speakers being in the way. If you want big music it's the only way to go. Plus I have the Rev410s and they are big and hang low but every single person knows to duck slightly when they walk by them. The upside of big music vs hitting your head few times on them is just not comparable. Like @OperationROL stated your subconscious mind will keep you out of harms way once you've hit it a few times like I have.