Let the retrofits begin....

[soundshark]

Two 2016 parts I'm looking forward to trying to add to my 2015 SX190...

• Articulating keel (judging by the photos this should be a no brainer)
• I like the solar panels from the E series (this is a long shot)

 

[njmr2fan]

academy sports has the same size solar panels available to charge your batteries and they're on sale.


let me know when you get part #s and prices for the keel

 

[Bruce]

I would go with flexible solar panels. I am considering installing some this winter to offset the refrigerator drain.

 

[ptwb]

IMO, unless one is just floating for days, time and money are better spent adding another battery to the house bank (or even creating a house bank if you don't have one) and purchasing a proper home dual bank battery charger to maintain the batteries. And added plus is yet another battery to save the day if something goes wrong with the other one.

 

[SCSTWG]

IMO, unless one is just floating for days, time and money are better spent adding another battery to the house bank (or even creating a house bank if you don't have one) and purchasing a proper home dual bank battery charger to maintain the batteries. And added plus is yet another battery to save the day if something goes wrong with the other one.

In my case, I store my boat at the marina on the trailer and have no AC power available. Similarly, many keep their boats in wet slips with no power available so the solar options is a good one. However, as you said, having a second battery has some great benefits.

 

[soundshark]

Unfortunately where I park my trailer/boat doesn't have utility power so charging is not an option.

 

[ptwb]

Unfortunately where I park my trailer/boat doesn't have utility power so charging is not an option.

I agree, but that's a different scenario than powering a refrigerator.

 

[ptwb]

My point is, IMO, permanent solar cells on a boat is of limited if not worthless value. They're not going to replenish the power you are using that day. If I was in a marina, I would look into attaching a solar panel(s) to a pile, post, roof, dock storage container, etc, not the actual boat. Especially here in FL with salt, panel will probably last much longer not getting salt water spray.

If I was in a storage yard on a trailer, if I was lucky depending on how trailer is always angled and the sun orientation, then I would mount the panel to the trailer.

Worse case, if I had no choice but to mount to tower, I would make up some kind of temporary mount just for when in storage.

I wonder what people in FL do that dry rack their boats inside a warehouse?

 

[Bruce]

@ptwb, I disagree about the usefulness of solar panels on our boats.

You could easily fit two 40 watt sections of a flexible panel material like this on most of our Biminis.



For my boat I would like to have 40 to 50 watts of solar to offset the refrigerators drain on the batteries. 50 watts of panel with 6 hours of sun exposure would keep the batteries fully charged.

For someone with a thousand watt stereo 80 watts of panels could provide an hour and a half or more of additional run time. The thousand watt stereo and amp configuration likely has an average draw around 300 watts. The 80 watts of panels would provide 480 watts to the batteries over 6 hours of sun exposure.

The factory stereo on many of our boats consumes less than 60 watts so 80 watts of panels would allow it to run all day without discharging the battery.

When we go for multiple day trips the panels would eliminate the need to plug in to recharge the batteries. This would be convenient because power is not always available, sometimes it is only available with expensive adapters and other times it is expensive.

Adding a third battery would provide an additional 100 amp hours (1300 watts) for a cost of $100 to $250. 80 watts of solar panels would provide the same amount of additional power over three days for a similar cost and with a small fraction of the weight.

Of course these panels are not going to perform well in a covered slip. But even if they received 20% of the rated power they would would be sufficient to keep the battery trickle charged.

 

[njmr2fan]

I like those flexible panels. Hmmm group buy to bring down the cost???

 

[H2OBoy]

I'm curious if the new AR190 tower would retrofit onto my SX190. I have considered going to a newer boat but the new 19's are really not much different than my 2012. With only about 50 hours on my boat I can't justify trading up just to get the tower, which I really like. If I could add to my boat for a reasonable amount I would definitely go that route.

 

[Bruce]

I like those flexible panels. Hmmm group buy to bring down the cost???

Ideally we would find shorter sections. I am uncertain if that product can be cut. Most of us would be happy with 1/3rd of one of those panels providing 40 watts in a 16" x 6' package.

 

[Bruce]

I'm curious if the new AR190 tower would retrofit onto my SX190. I have considered going to a newer boat but the new 19's are really not much different than my 2012. With only about 50 hours on my boat I can't justify trading up just to get the tower, which I really like. If I could add to my boat for a reasonable amount I would definitely go that route.

Once the parts catalogs are out you can price it out. Historically buying towers through Yamaha has been prohibitively expensive. @Ziess21 and @Williamsone46 you could have quite a market for towers if the price is reasonable.

 

[ptwb]

Bruce, this will just be one of those things where we have to agree to disagree.

Amazon has 40watt panels around $75 that put out 2.3amps, ASSUMING FULL SUN and PEAK HOURS OF DAY. Just cause the sun rises in the morning doesn't mean a panel all of a sudden jumps to 100% output.

TWO 40 watt panels would put out 4-5 amps, again, assuming it's sunny. If it's cloudy, solar panel output drops DRASTICALLY, like 50%.

You linked to 18' of flexible 120 watt 24v panel and costs $149. Also those don't seem to seperate (it says single panel 18'). Are you thinking of attaching that directly to the bimini cloth/poles? I don't think you can cut those panels up. How long would it even last attached to a bimini? Would you still be able to lower your bimini?

Also, my state does not get 6 solar peak hours year round, You and I only avg 4.5 year round. When it comes to solar, the impression I get is people want to make it work and they don't realistically set their numbers. We might get 6 peak of summer, but fall, winter, and spring will be lower. So 6 might apply to you if you only boat in the summer, but not for me here in FL.

On the other hand, even the smallest interstate deep cycle 24M ($96) will provide 5 amps for 12hrs. http://www.interstatebatteries.com/m/category/marine/deepcycle
Or for a typical boating day, (6 hrs?), 10 amps!!! Twice the extra capacity for your refrigarator, stereo, etc and cheaper. You can play your stereo that much longer and that much louder adding a battery instead. Lots of people will move up to a 27 or 29 ($141) group deep cycle battery that provides that much more power!

Chances are a 1000 watt stereo is drawing way more than 4 amps any given hour otherwise they've added a lot of power they're not using or not really using that often. I have 450 'clean' watts of stereo and I think 60amps worth of fuses. Even class d amps, while more efficient, still draw lots of power.

IMO, for the majority of people, especially if they can plug in at night most times, there is no way the amount of money and time put into solar panels is going to outperform just adding another deep cycle battery. If one is really worried that they need solar panels, stop, think about it, resist the temptation to over engineer an extra creative solution, and just add another deep cycle battery instead. Way easier, cheaper, and provides more benefit.

If one does not currently have a house bank, then they really need to add a proper house bank before they bother with solar panels. If one already has a house bank, far easier to add another battery to it with two short wires then to start running wires and drilling holes in a tower to nicely get them run up to the solar panels that may or may not really work depending on the weather that day.

Multi day trip? I guess it depends on the trip. We rent houses and then I just bring an extension cord to plug in the charger overnight. For marinas, I have seen 110 adapters for less than $50. One could buy an adapter and an onboard dual charger cheaper than the solar cells (and associated wiring,mounts,etc). Camping, well, that could be the one situation, but then again, depends on the weather. These solar cells are not going to allow somebody to go camping for three days with a 1000 watt stereo unless they are running the boat all day long. If one camps enough, they can buy a 1000 watt camping generator for under $150 on amazon and now they have a generator that can be useful for other things.

Assuming you have access (except when camping) to plug in at night, I would go with another battery before solar. I would only bother with solar once I had a proper house bank setup that still wasn't supplying what I needed. Even then, I would need to think about just adding bigger batteries, choosing a different storage facility/marina that let me plug in, or bringing a generator along for that trip. Also, how long the boat is running that day affects calculations too.

I'm sure there are isolated cases where solar panels would be worthwhile. I was responding to your post where you just mentioned you wanted to offset your refrigarator drain, I assumed during a typical boating day. You didn't mention anything about whether or not you can plug in at night in a marina, storage yard, or maybe even your garage. You didn't mention camping, 1000 watt stereos, etc. Since you didn't mention anything about storage charging, I assume you can plug in overnight, and so I still think extra or bigger battery is the better solution.

IMO, the biggest benefit of solar panels, the time it is worth it, is for those wanting to maintain their batteries while in storage and don't have access to any power. But it takes time to recharge depending on how much one drained down. They need to keep in mind, if they use up all their batteries on saturday and they want to go out again on sunday, the solar panels are not going to provide any meaningfull charge between the end of day saturday and sunday morning.

Solar panels directly mounted on a boat of these types is an absolute last resort option imo.

 

[Bruce]

@ptwb, I have two group 31 AGM batteries now. I also have a refrigerator that uses 1Ah per hour. This is not an issue as long as I plug in every few days. With 50+ watts of solar panel it would never be an issue during the times of the year that I boat.

As for stereos I do not believe that you read my example so I will restate. "For someone with a thousand watt stereo 80 watts of panels could provide an hour and a half or more of additional run time. The thousand watt stereo and amp configuration likely has an average draw around 300 watts. The 80 watts of panels would provide 480 watts to the batteries over 6 hours of sun exposure."

The 60 Ah battery in your example could only be discharged to 50% without concern of damage. It would provide 30 Ah (390 watts) while adding perhaps 70 pounds of weight to the boat. 80 watts of the example flexible solar panel would add less than 12 pounds to the boat and provide more power during the day.

You are correct that the 16 inch by 18 foot long flexible panel that I linked to is too large to install on our Bimini's. I am uncertain if it can be cut. If so then one could be a solution for three of our boats. If it can not be cut then the same type of panel can likely be found in more reasonable sizes. Something that we have not addressed is that you would also want to include some sort of solar charge controller.

 

[ptwb]

@Bruce, are you saying that with 2 31agm batteries, your 1amp refrigator is the tipping point between you needing to plug in every few days versus not needing to plug in ever? Why do you only plug in every few days versus every time you store the boat?

 

[JetBoatPilot]

One of the things that will be cost prohibitive in adding the articulating keel to older Yamaha 19 footers is the requirement to add the rack and pinion steering to offset the weight that the rudder adds to the wheel.

I imagine the cost to add the parts alone would run nearly $1000 plus install.

 

[Bruce]

@Bruce, are you saying that with 2 31agm batteries, your 1amp refrigator is the tipping point between you needing to plug in every few days versus not needing to plug in ever? Why do you only plug in every few days versus every time you store the boat?

I plug in the on board charger every time that I store the boat at home and whenever it is convenient. I leave the fridge on for the entire boating season. But I find times that plugging in is not always practical.

I have 200 Ah of battery capacity providing roughly 100 Ah or 100 hours of fridge run time before I trip the low voltage disconnect on my house circuit. Typically I use one battery to power the boat and leave the second as a backup. That reduces my time away from a charger to roughly two days before switching to the second battery.

An example of when the solar panel(s) would come in handy would be this years trip to Shelbyville. We left home Thursday morning. About 6 PM on Saturday the first battery hit 50% and tripped the low voltage disconnect. The stators had allowed the fridge to run roughly 8 hours longer than I expected. Other loads such as leaving the VHF on to listen for other boaters and the inflation pump had also used some of the battery. Had I had 50 watts of solar panels the battery would have remained fully charged.

Another example is the three day tow to Fort Lauderdale to launch for Bimini. It would be nice to load the fridge with food for Bimini. But I turn the fridge off because I do not want to leave for Bimini with depleted batteries. It is uncertain if I would be able to get power at the Marina in Fort Lauderdale and expensive if I did. I do use te fridge on the way home for leftover food. I know that I will have time and opportunity to charge the batteries when I get home.

I would want to install the panels where they could be used while trailering. Perhaps use Velcro to attach them to the Bimini or the cover.

I prefer to know that the batteries are charged instead of worrying about when they will run down. If I had 80 watts of panels I would not have any concern about the fridge, VHF and stereo discharging the battery during a typical day on the water.

So for me it would be worth spending a couple of hundred dollars to add a meaningful amount of solar panels to my boat. Anything less than 50 watts would not interest me but as little as 12 watts would suffice to trickle charge the batteries.

Another reason that a small amount of solar charging would be useful and possibly the reason Yamaha added them would be to offset the power used when the bilge pump spins up to check for water.

 

[ptwb]

I leave the fridge on for the entire boating season.

You mean you leave it on 24/7? ok...

If by 6pm one battery was down 50%, that's 50ah, or 600 watts that got used. 50 watts of solar panel, in the best of conditions is only going to put back 300 watts assuming you hit 6 peak hours. Reality is solar would probably only put back half of that. Even with 80 watts of panels you later state, best case, that's only 480 watts. People too often assume best case scenarios with solar. I don't see how your latest 50 watt solar example (or even 80) would have left you with a fully charged battery. Sure, they won't be drained as much, but they won't be full either, but then you still had another battery just sitting there that was fully charged? Do you have exactly ONLY 2 batteries in your boat and you're switching them around? Or do you have 3 and you switch your house between the 2 agms? I feel like you are making things complicated for yourself! If you have 3 batteries and you just left the two in the house in parallel, then you would have only been 75% and both batteries in theory last longer, although battery life is hard to gauge. The casual boater with some DOD is a lot different than a charter boat going out daily.

Have you thought about using the 12v aux pin on the 7 pin trailer plug (assuming you have one) to provide add'l charging to the boat while being trailered? That would solve your 3 day tow problem and also any other long tows, and regardless of weather! That alone would have solved your entire 3 day tow issue. Sure the fridge would have used some power that night at the marina, but not much. Also, slip power isn't that expensive. Get a cheap adapter. I just googled ft lauderdale marina slip rates and found 30amp, .10c/ft a day. Others just use meters and charge per kw which is still cheap.

If your scenario applied to me, before I bothered with solar, assuming you only have 2 batteries, I would probably just add a 3rd battery for the fridge, stereo. Whether or not I'd make it a 2nd house bank or just parallel it with the existing house, I don't know. And I would add a wire and run a cable to the front anchor locker so I can charge the boat when trailering. The last thing I want is a fridge or stereo ruining the day. Engines, vhf, nav are most important.

IMO, one should figure out what their worst case power requirements scenario is, plan their battery system to completely power that, and only then maybe rely on solar as a backup to a properly designed in the first place system . Solar is unreliable as a backup. What if your entire ride down had been cloudy? What if that day at shelbyville had been cloudy or partially cloudy? Nothing would be different or solved. Even if yamaha added it as an option to deal with the bilge pump checking, so what, one or three nights of checking is nothing, but if something goes wrong and water does start leaking in, those panels won't power the pumps and charge the batteries so that the pump can run 24/7 through the evening assuming the pump can pump out faster than it's leaking in. In 2-3 days, the batteries will still be drained. A lot of boats with solar panels have still sunk!

 

[Bruce]

If by 6pm one battery was down 50%, that's 50ah, or 600 watts that got used. 50 watts of solar panel, in the best of conditions is only going to put back 300 watts assuming you hit 6 peak hours.

That is 6PM on the third day after we unplugged the boat. So 56+ hours of running the fridge. During those three days of sunlight 50 watts of solar panels would have produced 48 to 72 Ah. More than enough to keep the batteries charged.