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Lithium House battery

Grkspeed17

Active Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
40
Boat Make
Yamaha
Year
2023
Boat Model
252SD
Boat Length
25
Hey guys, we have a 2023 Yamaha 252SD that’s set up from factory as a two battery system. Currently I have two group 24 lead acid standard batteries from dealer. I want to upgrade the house battery or both depending on situation. They make some nice lithium group 24 sized 100ah batteries out there as an option for house but if I do it I want to do it right.

If I were to keep the regular start battery and replace the house battery with lithium, what would I need to do to have it be installed properly? Reason I ask is because some people on here just swap it right out and leave everything the same, some do some modifying maybe with the DVSR, and then some say the stators on the engines shouldn’t be charging a lithium battery.

If that last one is the case, should I be deleting the DVSR, and isolating the lithium battery so that it only gets charged by an onboard charger that can handle lithium? I’m just really confused as the what I should do as the best option. I want more time out on the water with the tunes on. I lean towards lithium because I like the idea of them holding a steady voltage closer to battery drain compared to LA batteries where I get 11 volts when the batteries are 50% discharged or so.
 
Hey guys, we have a 2023 Yamaha 252SD that’s set up from factory as a two battery system. Currently I have two group 24 lead acid standard batteries from dealer. I want to upgrade the house battery or both depending on situation. They make some nice lithium group 24 sized 100ah batteries out there as an option for house but if I do it I want to do it right.

If I were to keep the regular start battery and replace the house battery with lithium, what would I need to do to have it be installed properly? Reason I ask is because some people on here just swap it right out and leave everything the same, some do some modifying maybe with the DVSR, and then some say the stators on the engines shouldn’t be charging a lithium battery.

If that last one is the case, should I be deleting the DVSR, and isolating the lithium battery so that it only gets charged by an onboard charger that can handle lithium? I’m just really confused as the what I should do as the best option. I want more time out on the water with the tunes on. I lean towards lithium because I like the idea of them holding a steady voltage closer to battery drain compared to LA batteries where I get 11 volts when the batteries are 50% discharged or so.

The last bit about the stators should not be charging lfp batteries is false. I’ve been running a Battle Born 100Ah lfp battery for two years now and it works great. The alternators on our boats are always at full output, the unwanted power is shunted to ground by the regulator / rectifier.

Having said that, you will have to modify the dvsr to make it work with the lfp battery, namely, the motors need to be on when the dvsr connects the lead acid start battery and the lfp house battery. Mine is set up to actuate manually with a rocker switch, others have tapped onto the fuel pump hot wire so that the dvsr is only active when the fuel pump that feeds that engine is running. Otherwise the resting voltage of the lfp battery will keep the dvsr closed and your lfp battery will try and charge your fla battery as the voltage of the fla battery is lower than the lfp battery.

Having said that, I think you need to determine whether or not you need a lfp battery for your house battery. Install a Victron Energy smart shunt on your current (see what I did there?) house battery and see how much power you actually use during an outing. Keeping in mind that a group 24 FLA battery is probably around 70 Ah, you should only be using 50% percent of that 70Ah to keep from damaging the battery, I see that you mention that but how do you know you are at 50%? And, if you do not already have an onboard charger and keep it plugged in then the fla battery will not be at full capacity.

If you still want to move ahead with the lfp house battery, click on “battery upgrade” in my signature. Its a big thread with a lot of great input by the members here and all the research I did. Lastly, if you are going to do this, only invest in a quality lfp battery, I highly recommend Battle Born, ReLion is also good, with Dakota Lithium coming in last.
 
I should have included more detail. I already added a switch early on to my DVSR because I have a Noco 5x2 onboard charger. The way I did it was I cut the black wire that connects to the house battery and added in a toggle switch so I can isolate the batteries when I charge them with the onboard smart charger.

Also, I just threw out numbers on 50% charge and voltage but most of the time after a full boat outing I would see voltage of around 12.3-12.4 by the end of the day but that included a long trip back home where the stators were adding in some charge. I plan on actually upgrading the audio but not by much. Maybe two 100ah batteries will be enough to also future proof any additional sound mods I may want to do in the future like adding tower speakers.

So it sounds like as long as I have the DVSR modded which I already have so I can charge whatever batteries I have separately with the onboard charger …. Everything else is just a drop in similar to if I replaced with a regular lead acid battery right?
 
My advice is to take the advice of @FSH 210 Sport. I had two Odyssey AGM batteries and replaced one of them with a 100Ah Battle Born LiFePO4 battery before last season and it worked out great. I highly recommend the smart shunt so you can monitor the actual battery voltage and charging rate in real time via Bluetooth using an app on your phone.
 
Yes, with your DVSR mod you can just drop in a LFP battery, but you have to remember to turn the DVSR off when you stop to float.

Check out @WiskyDan ’s posts in this thread; DVSR help... On how he tied his DVSR positive into a fuel pump hot for a simple way to operate the DVSR without a second thought. I know of at least one other person who set up their DVSR that way and I think I had told WiskyDan about it and he emulated that set up and wrote his post about it.

As far as the number of 100Ah LFP batteries you’ll want to have on board, LFP batteries have almost three times the amount of Ah / KWh of energy storage compared to a lead acid battery. I can’t stress enough the addition on the Victron Energy smart shunt, they are small and easy to install. No worries on tossing out the 50% number, a lot of people look at the voltage to determine battery state of charge, but to use voltage to determine SOC on lead acid batteries they need to be disconnected and at rest for 24 hours.


The Victron app for your smart device works with all Victron devices. I have two of these smart shunts installed on my boat, one for the trolling motor battery bank which is an isolated system and one for the house battery. The shunt also has a start battery tap that will measure voltage only on your start battery, I used this tap on the house battery shunt to see the voltage on my start battery. I’ve found on my boat the connext screen voltage reads low, usually .5 volts when in the lower voltage range, I’ve verified this with my fluke meter as well as the smart shunt, the shunt and my fluke (multimeter) read the same while the connext screen voltage reads up to .5 volts low.

My boat will read voltage on the connext screen (as well as the shunt) in the 14.2 to 14.4 range when cruising when the batteries are charged up, so yours were still low on your cruise back. Speaking of charging, LFP batteries charge five times faster than lead acid batteries so this is why LFP batteries are a great marriage to our alternators, as all of the output will be going into the LFP battery. Your boats alternators put out roughly 13-14 amps each when the rpm’s are above 3500 rpm, and approximately half of that at idle. This five time faster charge rate is where automotive style alternators (variable magnetic field or VMA) have issues with LFP batteries, but not with the alternators (permanent magnet alternators or PMA) on our boats.

You will also need to replace your on board 5x2 charger with at least a 10x2 as LFP batteries require 10A minimum. I had MinnKota 10 A chargers originally but have since switched to Victron IP67 chargers. The IP67 chargers are user configurable to any battery chemistry via the same Victron app and Battle Born customer service can walk you through the set up or I can help you set them up the way BB wants their batteries charged. The IP 67 chargers are capable of charging from 3A up to 25A. I have my trolling battery bank, 3-100Ah BB batteries, at 25A each, that reduced my trolling motor battery bank recharge time from 14 hours to 3.5-4 hours.

My suggestion for your set up would be to install one group 27/31 100Ah BB battery, the smart shunt, @WiskyDan ’s DVSR fuel pump hot mod and run that set up until such time you see via the smart shunt you are running short on capacity, if you reach the point where you need more capacity then add another 100Ah BB battery in parallel to double your storage capacity. These batteries are expensive so no need to install a second LFP house battery until you need it.

So far we’ve just talked about performance of these batteries another big factor is the weight savings, a BB 100Ah battery weighs half of a similar size lead acid battery, and LFP batteries weigh 1/5 of the weight of a lead acid battery bank of the same useable storage capacity. The other really big thing is these batteries they last 10 times as long, they come with a 10 year warranty, I expect to get 15 years out of my batteries and I use mine a lot more than the average boater as I have been averaging 35-40 boating days and 12-14 hours each outing a year. While I absolutely love my boat, there’s a good chance I may move to a larger boat with a bit more protection from the elements in the future, if and when that day comes, my MinnKota chargers and a new set of lead acid batteries will go into my boat for the sale and the LFP batteries and chargers will come out and go into the new or new to me boat.

Not sure if you read the thread I mentioned above; Conversion to LiFePo batteries Or not yet but I highly recommend that as well, I spent a lot of time researching this subject before I moved ahead with this project, @mrcleanr6 was exceptionally helpful with his suggested questions which allowed me to ask questions of the manufacturers, which is how I arrived at BB being the only choice. BB has excellent customer service and all their sales people are tech support as well and BB sells and fully supports Victron products, if they don’t happen to answer the phone leave a message and they will call you back pretty quickly. ReLion also has people you can talk to, but I could not use their heated batteries in series for my trolling motor bank. Dakota lithium has sales people you can talk to but if you have tech questions it’s a 24-48 hour response time and from what I’ve seen they balk at warranting their products, I helped a member here get his Dakota lithium battery replaced. Can you find less expensive LFP batteries? Yep, but you get what you pay for, and in the case of LFP batteries the BMS (battery management system) is vitally important to protecting the battery from over voltage charging, low voltage cutoff, high amperage in/out, low/high temp cutoff, allowable amperage in/out etc.. BB also uses a type of cell that is different from the other battery manufacturers that enable their batteries to continue working if one cell stops working where the other brands will stop working. This video is linked in the conversion to LiFePO batteries thread,
it’s a bit long but well worth the watch.

And lastly and also important to me is that other than a printed circuit board that is produced in China BB are designed and manufactured here in the United States.
 
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You did not say if you were installing stereo equipment?
 
All this information has been awesome, so thank you! Another question for this “conversion”. What about needing a dual purpose cranking lithium battery as the house battery? Let’s say I have my standard lead acid crank battery as my starter, and just replace the house with a non cranking lithium battery and my starter doesn’t have enough charge for whatever reason to start the boat. If I turn on the yellow parallel switch will it matter if the lithium battery isn’t rated for crank amps? Or does it just give its juice to the start battery to do the job? I don’t know if that’s a stupid question or not but I’m a little new to battery chemistries and purposes for each. Redodo makes a group 31 140ah dual purpose cranking lithium battery for $400. That seems to check all my boxes in terms of potential needed capacity, having Bluetooth for monitoring, and being able to have power to crank the engines in an emergency.


Lastly, for the DVSR …. What about the red loop mod behind the relay itself? I thought that mod is set up so that it only activates the DVSR to operate as intended only when the engines are running automatically. Wouldn’t that solve the problem for me to not have to ever worry about the DVSR as a set it and forget it situation or it has to be tapped into the fuel pump hot?
 
Read through the battery upgrade thread linked in my signature, lots of great info there.

Most of the lfp batteries will start our engines without being a cranking battery, there a couple of people who have done that. And as used as a booster I’m sure it would work BUT but I still carry a jump pack for starting a low battery.

The dvsr mod is necessary whether or not you have a lead acid start battery with a lfp house or a lfp start and house battery. You can either set it up to operate manually off of a dash mounted rocket switch or tap onto a fuel pump hot to take it fully automatic.

I highly recommend buying the following lfp batteries; Battle Born battery as a first choice, ReLion as a second choice and Dakota lithium as a third choice. If you’re not willing to spend the dough on a known quality lfp battery don’t buy one, just buy a flooded lead acid battery. I’ve seen a few instances of people buying the cheapO lfp batteries and have had issues with them.
 
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