Method to kill Zebra/Quagga in Waterbox??

[jollyroger]

OK, tried to find a thread on this topic and failed.

It is my understanding that water stays in the waterbox. I have a 2012 SX190. Water needs to be at 140 degrees or better to kill the mussels? What is the temperature needed and for how long?

We are thinking of going to Lake Powell this summer. It kills me to think that I could, in any way bring back mussels to my home lakes that are mussel free. So would this work?

I heat up the home hot water tank so the water in the house is 150 degrees. Hook up the hose to the garage sink which has a hose connection. Run the 150 degree water through the engine. Would this eventually get nothing but 150 degree water into the waterbox & kill the mussels?

How long would I need to run the water and engine to kill the mussels? Is there a chance that the engine could overheat; if the water running through the engine is too hot? How hot would that be? I guess if the engine overheat alarm went off I would know the water s too hot. Then can quickly switch to cold water from the garage sink.

Thanks

 

[Julian]

Is there no solution your could pump through that kills them? This document says chlorine or hydrogen peroxide...

http://www.che.cemr.wvu.edu/publications/projects/prod_design/zebra_mussels.pdf

 

[txav8r]

I have pondered this myself many times. Most of the water flowing through the engines reaches temps great enough. But when idling in, and loading, your not pumping hot enough water through IMO. I have considered having a hole cut in the tops of the water boxes, and a threaded cap bolt installed. Them I could simply open the cap and squirt in some bleach. You rev the engines and blow out the water from the engine and exhaust when you pull from the lake. So all that is necessary is to treat the water in the boxes. It may even be easy to pass a hose through the black exhaust baffle and into the boxes easily. Anyway, a solution should be found.

 

[steined]

Measure the temp of the water exiting the water boxes under the transom after the engine is up to temp. Thermostat is usually 160 degrees on I/O boats, but with emissions stuff it may be higher now. So the water would be at least as hot as that I would think. Especially after cooling the hot metal from the hot exhaust. Should be able to get a BBQ probe there.

 

[Gym]

If you do flush with hot water put that engine in "no wake mode". That way if you do get an overheat the computer will automatically throttle down the engine tipping you off to turn the water off and shut down the engine.

 

[buckbuck]

Here are the temperatures (see attached) from my MR-1 engines while running in the river.
When I shot the temps of the rubber exhaust hoses with an infrared gun I got the following.
temperature F
exhaust into water box

103
back of water box under hatch

117
rubber exhaust that exits boat

124

 

[scokill]

Just wait 7 days between boating

 

[waterboy]

In my day job, working in water treatment, I have actually performed treatments to kill zebra mussels for power plants and other industrial plants that use river water...

Do not use chlorine or something like that. The mussels can sense it in the water and will "clam up" tight so they do not ingest any water while exposed. Heat will kill them but I do not remember what temp that is.

Not to get all chemistry on you but there is a class of chemicals that the mussels cannot sense and kills them dead... ADBAC quats are used in industrial products and also in many around the house products too. It doesn't take alot to kill the them and you do want to expose them for several hours if you can. PPM levels are actually more than enough.

I have bought a product at ACE Hardware to kill algae on my stone deck and it contains this product called Wet and Forget. By the way, if you need to kill algae on your deck or something, this works really well.

Try this product or something like it and I feel very confident that it will kill them.

 

[Magic]

Melted butter with garlic, and a little lemon juice.....they can't resist!

 

[txav8r]

Here are the temperatures (see attached) from my MR-1 engines while running in the river.
When I shot the temps of the rubber exhaust hoses with an infrared gun I got the following.
temperature F
exhaust into water box

103
back of water box under hatch

117
rubber exhaust that exits boat

124

The cooling flow through the engine and exhaust is just a little different on the 1.8L buckbuck, but basically the same. I was wondering if the split where water cools the head vs straight exhaust section and return may circulate water that is less than other areas. It is evident that by the time the water gets to the waterboxes, it is not hot enough. But that is after passing through the engine/exhaust and being cooled by design. And as I mentioned previously, my thoughts are that you circulate much cooler water through the system, and a fresh supply of it, as you motor back into your mooring/dock/slip/trailer/or beach...because your at no wake speed or less and no longer creating the temps to do the job. And that is the water that is left in the boxes after you rev it up to get most out of the engines/exhaust. Thanks for the temp charts and your work to solve your overheat problem, it has helped many of us to understand the cooling systems better.

@waterboy , thanks for the info on water treatment! So this product, Wet and Forget, what is in it? It is a stone and deck treatment? What could the issues be using it in a stainless steel waterbox that has rubber connected on both ends of it? It would be great to isolate the ingredient that kills the mussels and use only that in them, instead of a bunch of other stuff too. But you are on to something here, can you help us identify this chemical a little more specifically?

 

[txav8r]

I just read the product info, FAQ, ingredients, and reviews on all three products that Wet and Forget offers. It appears to me, that the only one that would be sufficient would be the Wet and Forget Outdoor. The other 2 products, "Shower" and "Indoor" are diluted already and a spray and wipe type product. Since we would be introducing into a vessel that already contains possibly contaminated water, the mix ratio is 1 part of the product to 5 parts water. What I read from this product for outdoor use, is that it must dry, and that when dry, it continues to kill the target bacteria. What about in a wet waterbox? Also, it talks about needing 2 to 3 weeks to fully kill the bacteria. So I am wondering if you use this coming out of your lake, and headed to another lake in less than 7 days, will it have killed the mussel organisms? The issue isn't mussels for us...it is their larvae or even smaller juvenile forms of the mussel, before it becomes a mussel. Those organisms get transported from one body of water to another, and that is what they are trying to prevent. Many lake inspections won't let you launch if you have any water present in your boat. If they make you start the boat, your going to have water exit the exhaust, even a year later...not much, but some residual will be present.

I still think were on to something here. A call to the company and getting info from them, on the use of the product for this type of treatment may provide a clear process. This is a good project!

 

[waterboy]

don't open a can of worms. These type of products are registered by the EPA for areas of use. If you call the company, they won't have a clue about killing zebra mussels and will also advise you to not use it like this as it is against label instructions.

On the Wet and Foreget product, it is for algae on stone, etc. You want to let it dry for it to work on the stone and it will take a weeks or so to kill the algae. For zebra mussels (live ones), the kill effect takes up to 8 hours depending on product concentration and water temperature. We used to feed it at ppb levels, which is like 1 drop in a swimming pool. If you are even close to percent levels, it will kill them in less than an hour easy. I would suspect if you fed it through the engine say like Salt Away, you would have pretty high levels.

I will take my lawyer hat off and return to chemistry. alkyldimethylbenzylammonium chloride or ADBAC is a form of quat compounds. See Wiki link for more info... These are very safe biocides that are used in many household products. The Wet and Forget product is still fairly dilute. I used to use it at 50% strength in industrial use.

Regarding your questions on "material of compatibility", this stuff is pretty harmless to materials. We used to use most anything with even the 50% version. The very dilute product will be fine with anything. If water won't dissolve it, then you are good to go.

I am not familiar with regulations on transferring these dudes with your boat... interesting. If you splash any water out of your water box, you can;t launch??? Hmm, that;s a tough on there.

Did I cover everything??

 

[txav8r]

I get what your saying...on the intended uses. I also get that you understand the biocide and ratios. It sounds like the small amount needed isn't going to be an issue. Is the same biocide in all three of their products?

We have zebra mussels in the two lakes I frequent, so it isn't much concern for me. But some of the lakes that don't have them have inspections and yes, they are strict at some of them. Others just "look" and may not actually make you start an engine. But to be prepared, because they may.

So literally, only a few drops of the concentrate are needed in the water boxes? I can't see a need to run it through the engines, they will dry out after you rev to expel water and moisture, it is the water boxes that will retain water. So a way to introduce this into the boxes...even a capful?

 

[waterboy]

Yeah, it's the same biocide they use in all the products. Only a small amount into the water box would do it. Don't now how though to get it in there. I haven't really looked into this before.

If stopped, how would you be able to prove that you are OK? What do they ask for when and if you get stopped at the ramp?

 

[txav8r]

You couldn't really prove it. And I doubt they would believe you anyway. This IMO, is just to satisfy your own desire not to spread this plague.

In my lake, there are signs but no inspection, as we are already infected.

 

[jollyroger]

Any ideas on how to get the Wet & Forget in there?

Is it possible to remove the waterbox and drain it? Saw somewhere that it might be hard to drain. The need to let it dry out for 7 days should be easy enough if drained completely Where is the waterbox? I looked at the YamaSportsPlaza page, the blow up of all the "Exhaust" engine pieces and did not see anything labeled "Waterbox".

This is a bummer if we are not able to find a way to rid our boats of potentially harmful larvae. It appears that everywhere else we can remove the pesky mollusks. Otherwise do I risk going to a lake; i.e. Powell that is supposedly only partially infected at this time?

 

[jollyroger]

Is this it? Price is $156.00. If os, wonder how much tie to replace it? Might be worth the peace of mind knowing that there is no water int here and all larvae are dead

Water Lock Comp

F1W-U7550-01-00

 

[txav8r]

You don't need to replace the water box. It just needs to be washed and drained. However draining it is going to be a complicated process. Not complicated, but difficult to do after every use.

 

[Cory]

has anyone inquired with Yamaha on what they suggest?

 

[jollyroger]

I will contact Yamaha in next few days.

There is the overall need to keep waterbox decontaminated which is the Washed, Drained, Purify, Rinse etc. This pertains as a boat moves among Clean to Infected lakes, and back and forth.

My specific situation that may relate for others is that I would only visit an infected lake once a year. Hence, changing waterboxes if that is easier than the: Wash, Drain, Purify, Rinse process. Also, changing is definite proof that the waterbox is clean.