MR1 engine help, cylinder 3 has water.

[betterwhenitswetter]

Ladies and Gents, I need some help or other points of view.

This is not my boat, thankfully! But my PWC, 2007 FXHO MR1 so same engine.

Yesterday the family rode it my Yamaha 2007 FXHO PWC hard most the day, I got on it and noticed it was running extremely rough, and then the check engine light came on within about 10-20 seconds, so I stopped duh. The entire day the Yamaha water spout was shooting the normal amount b/c I could see it when they passed by where we where anchored , or appeared to be normal amount of water under all loads.

I pulled the seats only thing was there a "little" water in the hull, and the shore engine flush cap open/off. Come to find out my brother left it off, he earlier before we left for the lake said he wanted to run it on shore to test fire and forgot reinstall the flush cap.

Current know facts:

Yesterday:

• Check engine light, was on yesterday, No temp light came one LCD cluster, only check engine light.
• Also I noticed raw fuel at the time of it running rough.
• idle-towed it to shore using my AR230 boat, took forever nice and slow (I know the MR1 can get water if you tow them fast).

Today:

• Pulled fault codes, = code 24 CAM position sensor was stored occurred at 43.27 hours, total run time was 43.40 (Nothing else, all other data reads good engine off)
• Unable to turn engine over today, locked!
• Pulled coils and plugs Cylinder 3 spits out water and fuel (mostly water, I suspect unburned fuel is in the exhaust, mixed with water), water keeps pumping out only cylinder 3, every other cylinder is bone dry (these doesn't appear to be water from the exhaust being pulled back in by back pressure, cooling system, or as I suspect cylinder head failure, or exhaust valve failure.
• Engine turns over smooth no unusual sounds or physical mechanical sounds like a valve hitting the cylinder, again cylinder 3 shoots water plugs out.
• No water in the oil

Hope everyone had a awesome July 4th, any and all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[itsdgm]

How does the oil look? Any water in there?

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

How does the oil look? Any water in there?

Yeah sorry I forgot to add that above, no water in the oil (I guess I could drain the oil to see more, only looked in top looks new as I just changed in 1 month ago, clear-ish yellow/camel brown)

 

[Bruce]

Is the engine currently seized or turning over smoothly? If turning over smoothly I believe your priority should be to get the water out and change the oil until it is no longer contaminated.

[USERGROUP=9]@HELP[/USERGROUP]

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Is the engine currently seized or turning over smoothly? If turning over smoothly I believe your priority should be to get the water out and change the oil until it is no longer contaminated.

[USERGROUP=9]@HELP[/USERGROUP]

Yes, "after" I pulled the spark plugs engine spins nice and easy, again water spits out continuously of cylinder 3. Looked down in the cylinders but 3 has water/fuel on every stroke. so its hard to view the piston.

No water in oil just pulled a sample, I can drain it fully later

 

[itsdgm]

Have you pulled the boat out of the water? I don't see why here would continue to be water in the cylinder after cranking for a minute or two. You'll need to keep the plugs out and continue to dry out the cylinders by cranking the engine. Make sure to pull the lanyard to prevent ignition damage (that disables the ignition). Then I'd put some kind of oil in each cylinder and crank again to coat everything with oil. Possibly fog a few times and then try to figure out where the water leak is coming from.

A few possible causes for the water that come to mind for the hydro lock

1. a result of towing it for an extended distance
2. Blown head gasket - however I believe that it would more likely clear the water out of the cylinder with each exhaust stroke unless is was a huge leak
3. Possibly ingested water through the air cleaner from the uncapped flush hose - btw, how does the air cleaner look?
4. I think there's an o-ring on a water pipe that runs through the valve cover (at least there is on my non-ho engines) however I think this would dump water into the valve cover not the cylinders if it went bad.

IMHO, Most likely cause, towing the ski for extended period without clamping the water inlet.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Have you pulled the boat out of the water? I don't see why here would continue to be water in the cylinder after cranking for a minute or two. You'll need to keep the plugs out and continue to dry out the cylinders by cranking the engine. Make sure to pull the lanyard to prevent ignition damage (that disables the ignition). Then I'd put some kind of oil in each cylinder and crank again to coat everything with oil. Possibly fog a few times and then try to figure out where the water leak is coming from.

A few possible causes for the water that come to mind for the hydro lock

1. a result of towing it for an extended distance (all cylinders would have water from towing, it would blow out and stop, it doesn't stop I turned the engine over quite a bit.)

2. Blown head gasket - however I believe that it would more likely clear the water out of the cylinder with each exhaust stroke unless is was a huge leak (this is looking like the cause or valve issue)

3. Possibly ingested water through the air cleaner from the uncapped flush hose - btw, how does the air cleaner look? ( Air cleaner is bone dry & perfect, thankfully b/c its brand new just last month, installed during the last oil change)

4. I think there's an o-ring on a water pipe that runs through the valve cover (at least there is on my non-ho engines) however I think this would dump water into the valve cover not the cylinders if it went bad. (I will need to pull it apart more, but again highly unlikely it would be a single cylinder issue)

IMHO, Most likely cause, towing the ski for extended period without clamping the water inlet.

my PWC is the trailered and on land as well as my other FXHO and boat they only see water for a few hours,

Inside the PWC hull there is NO unusual water lines, other than the normal lower area just outside the reach of the bilge pump, I only towed it about 2 football fields at idle speed which was ungodly slow, we where anchored near the docks.

1. a result of towing it for an extended distance (all cylinders would have water from towing, it would blow out and stop, it doesn't stop I turned the engine over quite a bit. cylinder 3 keeps shooting water)

2. Blown head gasket - however I believe that it would more likely clear the water out of the cylinder with each exhaust stroke unless is was a huge leak (this is looking like the cause or valve issue, and keeps pulling left over water from the cooling system & exhaust)

3. Possibly ingested water through the air cleaner from the uncapped flush hose - btw, how does the air cleaner look? ( Air cleaner is bone dry & perfect, thankfully b/c its brand new just last month, installed during the last oil change)

4. I think there's an o-ring on a water pipe that runs through the valve cover (at least there is on my non-ho engines) however I think this would dump water into the valve cover not the cylinders if it went bad. (I will need to pull it apart more, but again highly unlikely it would be a single cylinder issue)

Current Notes:
I just pulled as much oil as I could and put it in a brand new container to inspect later, the further down the darker it got, still does not appear to have water.

BTW guys I was a Mercedes Benz master tech for years, thankfully I don't have to work that hard anymore, I just want to let you guys know I am not a engine noob.



Keep the ideas coming guys.

 

[itsdgm]

@betterwhenitswetter i just don't understand how water can be still getting into the cylinder if the ski is out of the water.

I don't see how a bad valve would cause water to get into the cylinder either.

My thought on water getting into the cylinder while towing would be due to exhaust cooling water back flowing through the exhaust valves. I would think that it's possible for only one cylinder to have the exhaust valves open when the engine comes to rest. However, it doesn't make sense why it's still getting water in the cylinder when it's on the trailer. Plus, you're right, it shouldn't be the cause if you were towing that slowly.

Fwiw, historically the #3 cylinder has been the cause of a majority of engine issues. I wonder if that cylinder gets the hottest due to where it sits in the flow of cooling water or something.

Anyway, with you're mechanical background, it sounds like you'll have it figured out soon. Keep us posted on your findings, good luck.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

@betterwhenitswetter i just don't understand how water can be still getting into the cylinder if the ski is out of the water.

I don't see how a bad valve would cause water to get into the cylinder either.

My thought on water getting into the cylinder while towing would be due to exhaust cooling water back flowing through the exhaust valves. I would think that it's possible for only one cylinder to have the exhaust valves open when the engine comes to rest. However, it doesn't make sense why it's still getting water in the cylinder when it's on the trailer. Plus, you're right, it shouldn't be the cause if you were towing that slowly.

Fwiw, historically the #3 cylinder has been the cause of a majority of engine issues. I wonder if that cylinder gets the hottest due to where it sits in the flow of cooling water or something.

Anyway, with you're mechanical background, it sounds like you'll have it figured out soon. Keep us posted on your findings, good luck.

Yeah, I honestly don't have it figured out its just a best guess, all the rough running and engine light was on before it was towed, and I could smell raw fuel. I was reading that the exhaust valves get carbon and gum up and don't seal 100%, Yeah and if the cylinder was open it would get water in there, but I was careful as heck when towing! I appreciate the input it keeps me from going insane. But what's weird is I have all the plugs out so it has no compression, just keeps pumping water where is it coming from? I have never done any Yamaha engine repairs in the 6 years I have owned these things, been butter smooth until now.

 

[tdonoughue]

Well, the only thing I can offer is that obviously with the ski out of the water, the water must be coming from the cooling system. And the only way I can think of to get water from the cooling system to a cylinder is by a cracked block (having excluded anything coming in from the exhaust route, and the water keeping coming after it is out of the water). If such a crack were near the top of the cylinder on #3, then you could get water above the cylinder as you describe and, as long as the cylinder ring does not travel above the crack, the cylinder action could suck the water from the cooling system without contaminating the oil.

I believe this is my official uneducated guess.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Thanks guys, itsdgm, Bruce, & tdonoughue. I have some more important projects I am actively working on so the MR1/waverunner is on hold for now, I will update these with my findings when I can get to it.

keep the ideas coming anything is helpful and keeps me from going crazy, its more stressful when you working on your own and over think the situation, nice to have a online family point out some obvious stuff.

 

[fairpilot]

Possible manifold problem. Sounds real close to what was going on with my 2006 MR1. https://jetboaters.net/threads/water-in-oil.76/

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Sorry guys got a new truck, tow rig... 299 miles pulled the entire interior to sound deaden it, I can finally hear that elusive misquote fart. bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.... fart.. bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, now that's done on to the other toy.

Thanks Fairpilot, I read your post. I only run in fresh water, also this is cylinder 3. I will get a tech camera and check the water intake manifold... btw there is no water in my oil, pulled as much as I could have a few in clear glass for samples, thinking maybe a wide open fuel injector it just fills the cylinder only thing is it needs a crank signal to fire the injector I will try to remove the injector and test with cleaner.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Do not let the water sit in the engine combustion chamber get it all out and oil the cylinder if you are going to wait to work on it. Also look at the air cleaner element to see if water went in the air box and entered the engine via the throttle body if so oil the throttle body also.

 

[cybuch]

Possible manifold problem. Sounds real close to what was going on with my 2006 MR1. https://jetboaters.net/threads/water-in-oil.76/

Thinking the same thing, no water in oil, just combustion chamber. In TX, most likely in salt water?

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Hey guys got around to looking at it finally , I had pulled the oil from day 1, let it sit in clear bottles, there is NO WATER. sorry for the title I was tired and worn out and thought it was water & fuel, turns out its more like oil with fuel smell.

Its FUEL, and loads of it, I disconnect fuel pump the fuel stops squirting into the cylinder, but it still fires the injector every 4th turn on the correct stroke. I plug the pump back in it injects loads of fuel but only during the correct firing order, again disconnect power to the fuel pump it stops.

Fault code for cam sensor 24

now that fuel been removed/stopped, compression check results

Compression (at ambient temp...):
Cylinder 1 165-170
Cylinder 2 165-170
Cylinder 3 150 = (150 makes sense, fuel washed the oil from the piston rings so sealing is reduced) also note since engine doesn't run, compression was checked at ambient temp... so its going to be lower for all cylinders. which I believe spec is 180ish
Cylinder 4 165-170

Ordered new fuel injectors, should have an update later this week.

 

[tdonoughue]

Save the old ones. Another thread on here had someone finding a place that reconditions injectors with pretty good results...

Oh, and I think I get to change my official uneducated guess now, right?

 

[Murf'n'surf]

Your ECU may be bad.... Pretty common on the older boats.

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Save the old ones. Another thread on here had someone finding a place that reconditions injectors with pretty good results...

Oh, and I think I get to change my official uneducated guess now, right?

nah, I didn't have all the facts and mislead you guys with the assumed water...

 

[betterwhenitswetter]

Your ECU may be bad.... Pretty common on the older boats.

Murf, I hope not the waverunner has extremely low hours and is well kept 45-50 hours on a 2007.

Oh I found that thread about the another member having cylinder 4 fill up and he ended up needing a ECU, makes sense if the ECU keeps the injector on longer and fills it up with fuel. fingers
crossed, hard to diag... a failed ECU unless you have more dealership access to info and see this issue a lot more.

https://jetboaters.net/threads/running-rich-max-rpm-8700ish-hard-to-start.7116/#post-123690

Keeping the ideas coming helps.