Multiple Questions on 2017 AR190

[2kwik4u]

Purchased our new AR190 this spring and picked it up in early May. We've been using it a ton this summer, and are already past 20hrs on it. It's been great so far, but I have a few questions I'm hoping some other more experienced owners can help with.

The "rear tray" leaks a TON on this boat.......Basically we've had it out a bunch of times and the bilge pump runs FAR more than I would expect from a brand new boat. It's not consistent though. Some days it runs a TON and some days it doesn't run hardly at all. I think I've tracked it down to how much we're in/out of the water on the rear of the boat, and how often water gets into the rear storage area. While hosing the boat down after a day in the river on the 4th I noticed that the water was continuing to drain once it was below the drain hole. It's leaking in past the panel that you reach through to get to the clean out plug. Not through the two access holes, the drain, or the clean out port itself, but around the edge of the tray itself. Is that normal?

There is a GIANT dead spot in the center of the steering wheel. While on plane I can move the wheel between 10 and 2 and get zero response from the boat. I've checked all the connections I can see at the rear and there is a little slop in each of them, but I can't imagine it adding up to this much of a dead spot on center. Is that normal? It sure doesn't feel normal. It seems to turn OK, and aside from a very big on center wander at no wake speed it really isn't a big deal, just doesn't "feel right". Any thoughts?

Whats the deal with the front of the boat having to be so dang high to get all the water out of it. We towed home LATE on Saturday night, and we just pulled into the driveway instead of our normal backing into the garage. I had left the plugs out since we left the ramp (~50miles away), and upon pulling it about another gallon or so of water came rushing out of the back of the boat. Our driveway is steeper than the ramps we frequent, but I can't imagine really having to be this highly angled to get all the water out of the boat (which also leads me back to question #1, where else is it coming in?). Any thoughts on this one?

And finally......Anyone confirmed/denied that the Clarion MF1 will work on the factory MA200 radio they put in the AR190's? Lots of threads about it working with other head units, but nothing about it working with this one. I saw where someone got it working on the MA505 unit that is in the 195, and it's not listed either. My suspicion is that it will work just fine once powered like that installation, but was hoping someone else might have already done the testing to confirm it. If not, I might end up being the guinea pig for it.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[skbishop90]

I have a AR192 so take this as you will, but for the first water problem I couldnt comment.

As for the steering, it should feel very sharp and no slack whatsoever. There is something going on there.

If you look at the center storage compartment. it is low but still higher than the bottom of the hull. These boats have a very deep hull for the size boat.

 

[SamCF]

I have the same complaint with the steering. I would love to tighten that up, but I haven't spent any time looking at it. This thread covers it pretty well:
https://jetboaters.net/threads/addi...zzle-to-increase-precision-remove-slop.11094/

The plugs have an o-ring seal. You would think they would seal easily, but I really have to crank them down to keep them from leaking. A little marine grease on the O-ring would probably make them seal easily. I'm going to try that before my next lake trip.

I would just run a bead of marine silicone around the tray in the clean out hatch. It is surprising how much water ends up in the compartment.

 

[d_coyne1984]

I recently removed the rear panel covering the wet storage to do some sound insulating back there and the only thing keeping water from penetrating is a silicone seal and those screws. Half of those screws are probably stripped as I and others have found. When I put my screws back in I filled each hole with silicon in hopes to get a better hold and seal. I'm wondering if they forgot the silicone on your boat. You could remove it and redo the seal (if there even is one), or just do as @SamCF said and just run a bead around it. If you decide to remove the panel, there is a hose clamp and silicone around the top of the clean-out tube to contend with as well. Acess that through the two maintenance ports.

 

[viper15]

The tray needs to be resealed. My 2017 AR195 was sealed poorly.
I have the same dead spot. Haven't addressed it yet.
You can get a wired remote for the MA200. You have to order it direct from Marine Audio. I was quoted $50 from them and it comes with an 18' cord. I haven't ordered one yet.
Can't speak for the bow height water problem as I don't seem to have that issue. I never have any water in any compartment or bilge area.

 

[haknslash]

As mentioned the rear tray is poorly "sealed" if you want to call it that. If you find that you're in/out of the boat a lot water will eventually make it's way into the bilge from the wet storage. You can seal the tray and it will prevent it from leaking through there and instead will utilize the actual wet storage drain should water ever get that high. That being said I can't see your bilge filling to the point the pump turns on from just traffic in the boat from swimming and water seeping past the non-existent wet storage tray "seal". Coming off plane too quickly can also cause water to splash up onto the second tier where the tray is but also can dump in from the holes in the cup holders of the swim platform which dumps into the bilge. You would have to do A LOT of quick deceleration dumps to get that kind of water in to activate the bilge pump in the engine. I'd start with filling the bilge on the trailer first. If no leaks then have someone spray water along the rub rail while you look inside the bilge for water entry.

The "dead spot" I feel is not an actual dead spot in the steering mechanics not functioning. If you look back at speed and turn the wheel side to side real fast you will see the jet spray does in fact move side to side along with steering input. My hunch is because its a single engine boat with engine in the center it has to work harder to be easily influenced in steering demands versus say twin engines being offset from center. Having fins like the Cobra viper, ultimate, etc will get you more steering with steering input. You can also feel this by the added resistance in the steering wheel.

I can't help you with amount of water in your bilge. My bilge pump never turns on and I never have a drop of water from the drain plugs. I would maybe fill your bilge on the trailer and look for any leaks. Maybe your rub rail isn't sealed well as there have been others with the larger boats have rub rail issues. If it happens more when tubing or watersports then I'd definitely look at the rub rail.

 

[viper15]

The "dead spot" I feel is not an actual dead spot in the steering mechanics not functioning. If you look back at speed and turn the wheel side to side real fast you will see the jet spray does in fact move side to side along with steering input. My hunch is because its a single engine boat with engine in the center it has to work harder to be easily influenced in steering demands versus say twin engines being offset from center. Having fins like the Cobra viper, ultimate, etc will get you more steering with steering input. You can also feel this by the added resistance in the steering wheel..

I would agree with this. It does feel like a dead spot because you can move the wheel 10-to-2 (as the OP mentioned), and the direction of the boat changes little. But the mechanism is all tight and you can see the jet wash change with nozzle direction. So you may be right that it does take more nozzle direction change to yield a response in the change of direction for the boat. But once passed the 10 or 2, things get exciting really quickly

 

[2kwik4u]

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry for the delayed response on my end. Crazy busy at the office and then a few sunny days kept me busy outside away from the computer. Currently in the recliner trying to ease through yesterdays sunburn!

SO, speaking of yesterday. Took some friends out on the boat and spent a good 5-6hrs on the water. Multiple ski/tube/wake sports sessions. Bilge pump didn't run a single time. Got home and opened the plugs on a the steep driveway, maybe 1/6th of what came out last time. I must be doing something inconsistent with the plugs, or something else to be getting these conditions. Some days the bilge runs every 20 minutes or so, then some days it doesn't run at all. So perplexing.

I do think I'm going to reseal the rear tray if/when it comes out. I stuck my hand through the access ports and felt around the edges, I can feel "some" silicone in there, but not a ton. I don't really want to just lay a bead over the edge as I feel like that would cause more problems if/when I have to take the tray out for maintenance/modifications.

I tried the "turn the wheel at speed" and watch the jet wash yesterday. You're exactly right, I can see the stream moving from one side to another. It's not very much though. Seems odd to me that it has that little effect though, as other things that would never affect my previous boat seem to throw this one around. Odd crossing wakes/waves is a good example, the boat will change direction on it's own when climbing/falling over a wake where my last one would just plow through. Not sure if that is a result of the jet drive, the weight of the boat, the deadrise, something else, or a combination effect.

And a new question......This is the first time I've pulled someone else on a board behind the boat. He popped right up on ski's and then with some coaching got up on the wakeskate. I had never noticed before, but there is a delayed "hit" to the power. The engine revs right up, but the thrust seems to take a second to "grab" and pull. It feels like a loss of "traction" with the water, and then a pull. He and I are both on the larger end of the scales (6'2" and 230-245lbs ) and we both noticed it when pulling the other out of the water on the board. Is this cavitation that I'm feeling? Anything I can do to help prevent it from happening? It really feels like there is plenty of power to be had, but not enough traction to put it to the water. Any thoughts?

Thanks so much for the information already given. It sure is nice to have a community full of folks that have the same products with experience and knowledge to draw from!

 

[haknslash]

Crossing bigger waves the boat will "wander" depending on the angle of attack. It has been said the larger jet boats don't do it as much but can still wander off a wave depending on angle, speed, etc. You can also "surf' these boats if you come over a very large wave as I did it last year in the gulf lol. You must keep power applied or the wave will have control of where your boat wants to steer. That's just the nature of jet boat propulsion and also the fact we have very shallow draft with minimal parts down in the water to act as a guide. This is why stern drives can feel so "planted".

Yes what you felt with your boat is cavitation due to the higher demand loads on the impeller. It feels about the same as spinning tires on wet pavement....you hear the motor rev up but no power is getting really put down sort of feeling. A Lucky 13 cone will take care of that for you. @swatski had great results with his and made a thread with videos in it when he had his 190.

Edit - here is his thread on the anti-cavitation Lucky 13 cone https://jetboaters.net/threads/anyo...rfomance-adjustable-pump-cone-in-a-boat.7967/

And yes this forum is awesome!!! Everyone shares so much it's better than any dealer network out there.

 

[2kwik4u]

@haknslash Thanks for the super quick reply.

I'm off to read the thread @swatski put together on the Lucky13 Cone. Your description of spinning tires on wet pavement is exactly correct. I got that yesterday on a hard launch with a buddy on a wakeboard, and then also sometimes on hard turns under power. Sounds like this might be the fix I need for that.

Your description of "surfing" the wave is spot on as well. Sounds like that is just a "feature" of the low draft of a jet boat. Not a big deal really, just something new to me coming from decades of traditional I/O ownership. Thanks for the description!

 

[haknslash]

Glad to help!

A lot of times you can also hear the cavitation. Sounds like "wah-wah-wah" along with the slipping/loss of traction sensation as you hammer down on the throttle. The cone will fix your cavitation for sure.

Check out his post #25 with the videos comparing before and after. See this post.

 

[McMark]

The only time I get any water in my bilge is from wide open running. The water eeks past the cleanout plugs and runs into the cover under the hatch and the little drain under the tray isn't enough to get rid of it all. Or, wide open is forcing some water up that drain. If I just cruise for the day there will be some water on top of the clean outs but none in the bilge.

 

[2kwik4u]

Glad to help!

A lot of times you can also hear the cavitation. Sounds like "wah-wah-wah" along with the slipping/loss of traction sensation as you hammer down on the throttle. The cone will fix your cavitation for sure.

Check out his post #25 with the videos comparing before and after. See this post.

I don't so much get the wah-wah-wah sounds that he was getting when it hit the limiter. I do get a lot of revs and not much thrust though, perhaps I'm just off of the limiter and not quite there yet?!?! I definitely think the L13 cone is in my future though, as we do far more watersports than top speed runs. Our last boat only ever hit 42mph ONCE and we were plenty happy with it. This one hits at least 40 nearly every time out regardless of load. Top speed just isn't an important number for us.......EXCEPT......that I can brag about my $30k boat being 2mph faster than my buddies $100k Centurion wake boat . His boat is way nicer, but I get to say mine is faster

The only time I get any water in my bilge is from wide open running. The water eeks past the cleanout plugs and runs into the cover under the hatch and the little drain under the tray isn't enough to get rid of it all. Or, wide open is forcing some water up that drain. If I just cruise for the day there will be some water on top of the clean outs but none in the bilge.

Interesting thought. I didn't hit a top speed at all yesterday, and actually probably never crested 30-32mph or so while cruising around. Definitely never hit that speed while doing watersports. They day that prompted my initial questions, a good deal of the day was spent cruising up/down the ohio river at 34-35mph with a few top speed runs into the 40mph range. Wonder if my leak is connected to speed like yours? More testing is needed for certain!

 

[2kwik4u]

Had a full load today. 4 adults, 2 teenagers, and two young kids. Boat did really well aside from some significant cavitation. Heavily loaded with two little ones on the tube the boat felt like it had plenty of power, but lacked traction to put it to the water. I'm going to climb in/under it this week and check the impeller and make sure I didn't ding it or otherwise damage it, if no damage is found I'll be ordering the L13 Cone.

Also, a few "top speed" runs today. Once with only 3 of us (the other 5 stayed back with some friends on another boat) on a run to the Marina. ZERO water in the hull today. Although I did only see a top speed of about 38mph, so down about 4 from best ever of 42. Perhaps only water comes in over 40mph? I'm suspecting that the light coat of High Vacuum Grease on the plug O-Rings, and the extra heavy "crank" when installing them helped keep the water out from that opening. Had kids on/off the back of the boat all day long, TONS of dripping and such on the rear storage area.

Great day on the water......now if I could just keep the PO-SS tow vehicle from overheating I would be set!

 

[2kwik4u]

Resurrecting an old thread here.

Just ordered the Lucky 13 Cone. Hope to have that installed for our first outing. Anyone think it's worthwhile to do some before/after testing to validate it, or should I just slap it on and get on with it?

Also, where can I get the grease that I need for this installation? Yamaha dealership? Online somewhere?

 

[SamCF]

Just slap it on and go. You can reuse the factory grease if it looks good, or get factory replacement. I used a mix of marine gear oil and marine grease mixed into a loose paste. It will flow into the bearings instead of being slung out like the factory stuff. You will see what I mean by "flung" out when you pull your pump cone.

 

[swatski]

Yes, pretty much. The good thing is, if your hands are not too huge you should be able to remove/add spacers through the venturi opening, so no need to take off the pump. Literally takes 2min on a trailer.
Just don't drop the long bolt in the water if you do it on the lift. (don't ask)

https://jetboaters.net/threads/lucky-13-l13-anti-cavitation-cone-install-2016-ar240.12099/
The OEM grease I believe is also more widely available if you chose to stay with it, I think most dealers now carry it (in addition to the source I posted for the generic).

Keep us posted!

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[Spooling]

I'm tempted to pick up one of these Lucky 13's. What would be a good starting point for the number of spacers to put in to start, for a stock 190? All of them?

 

[swatski]

I'm tempted to pick up one of these Lucky 13's. What would be a good starting point for the number of spacers to put in to start, for a stock 190? All of them?

Yes, all 3 spacers, - I forgot is it 10 or 12mm? It should improve your hole shot - that is it's primary purpose. With all spacers, you will loose some top RPM - about 200 or so, and some top speed - but it shouldn't be more than 1-2mph.
If you are pulling skiers/wakeboarders - this mod is fantastic, it can reduce impeller slippage to almost none, which in a single is not trivial.

--

 

[2kwik4u]

For me, the problem wasn't/isn't really on holeshot. The boat has plenty of thrust to yank the rope from my hands on a deep water wakeboard start even with 4 other adults aboard. The bigger problem is some wonky side loading when pulling the kids on a tube. Trying to get the tube to cross over the wake requires turning and adding throttle, pulling the rope tight and inline with primary axis of the boat, leading to the tube hopping outside the wake. When in a turn, and adding throttle, the engine will rev and produce no additional thrust. Which is agitating for me as a driver and no fun for the riders either. The hope for me is that "traction" when turning and applying throttle is improved.

I'll keep everyone posted on progress.