Override in Reverse for E-Series

[Kane]

Happy 4th!!! Thanks to all our Service Men and Women responsible for our Independence! You Rock!!

I'm loving my boat with the exception of one giant thing, the limited power Yamaha has given E-series Boats in Reverse. You can press the No Wake 3 times to add upto 2000 RPM's(I think) but very cumbersome in a panic situation. I've actually called Jet Boat Pilot and Riva Racing in hopes that there will be performance upgrades and overrides for these E-Series Boats....but nothing! This issue, to me, is a real safety problem, first because I've already had an issue and if I had full power I would've been fine. 2nd, this makes me nervous when I have a my X full of Ballast and need to slow down in a hurry, whether it's docking or retrieving a surfer or boarder. I know what your thinking....plan ahead, and while I will, my experience with this boat is the reverse is very inconsistent.
So, I figured guys like @Mainah(even though you don't have this issue) @Julian and anyone else who breaths this stuff could shed some light on a fix.
My thoughts.... 1)If I could trick the boat into not knowing its in reverse that would work, but then it wouldn't change the gate position
2) Wiring in some sort of resistor to automatically override in Reverse...but I'm just not smart enough to wrap my arms around this!!

Thoughts??

 

[Julian]

The problem is that this is programmed into its brains somewhere....the gauges show FNR so it knows the throttle position....your idea of fooling it into thinking it's in forward in an interesting idea.

But I agree that this is a safety issue. Hopefully Yamaha will come out with a fix to correct this!

 

[itsdgm]

I don't have your series of boat @Kane but I was surprised to see that Yamaha had limited the throttle while in reverse. I wonder if it has anything to do with different materials used to make the reverse buckets. Are they made of plastic now? It's possible that they can't stand up to the heavy load in reverse at higher rpm's. But I don't have one, so I'm not sure about that.

However, I think you're on to something with finding what tells the computer it's it reverse. There must be a safety switch (like the neutral safety switch for starting) that triggers when the controls engage reverse. I would think that it's located in the throttle controls.

 

[Julian]

The gates themselves are the same as the non E-Series boats, so it has nothing to do with that. When I was test driving the boat last year, I asked about this and they said they'd limited the reverse because of how easy the throttles are to move.

 

[Kane]

The Guy at Riva Racing said the same about the gate being damaged. So to Julian's point, it rules that out.

 

[MIDLIFECRISIS]

how easy the throttles are to move.
Sounds like a cover my butt answer because they didn't have a answer.

 

[Julian]

how easy the throttles are to move.
Sounds like a cover my butt answer because they didn't have a answer.

I disagree....with the electronic throttles, there is ZERO resistance on the throttle levers! You can go from 100% forward full throttle to 100% reverse with one pinkie (and control both engines). In fact, they are so easy to move that those in the ocean in waves are having to brace their arm against the boat to avoid to much throttle movement. So I buy their rationale, but I think they could have overcome the issue in a different manner. Just having a stiffer center point in the throttles would actually be really nice. When I first got the boat it was not obvious if I was in neutral or forward due to the angle of the throttles. Having a solid hard CLICK into neutral would be sufficient to ensure people knew they were approaching reverse, and if they wanted...put another hard click at 3000rpm....but NOT A BLOCK. If I need to reverse HARD....I was to reverse HARD!

 

[seadude]

I agree the neutral detent could be more obvious. I know the tachs tell you what gear you're in but that info is hard to read.
These "ruddered" boats still feature TDE mode at idle which was another detent I could clearly feel with the cabled throttles. The new boats just go into forward and accelerate from there, so I'm guessing idle speed is always TDE mode?

 

[Kane]

So true about it being very easy....at first too easy, but once I got used to it I absolutely love it. They (Mother Yamaha) should've let us get used to the reverse as well. Worse case you do a Sub move you didn't mean!!!
To those with E-Series boats...you won't know what I mean until it could be too late so be careful!!

 

[arew~SX230]

Perhaps Yamaha could be concerned a sub-move could wipe out the electronics, or are they all water proofed?

 

[Mainah]

@Kane overriding this would need to be a software fix/hack IMO. The position of the levers impacts both the bucket position and the amount of fuel so tricking it ino thinking it was fowards would also mean that the buckts would be in the fowards position. My guess is that much of this works on a can bus or similar.

Now I did think of a tricky way around this but I think it would create more safety issues. The gate servos require power to move so if you were to put it in reverse then flip a switch to cut the power to the servos then move the throttles back to the foward position to control fuel you may be able to get full rpm. But what happens when you need forward again? You would have to flip the switch to the servos back on and hope that you remembered to pull back the throttles before doing that. I think this method would create more safety issues.

@Julian I agree that it sounds like detents and more friction for the levers would be a good thing.

While the implementation may not be what some owners prefer the limit at least shows that Yamaha considered the safety side of the system which is more than Chrysler did with the shifter on the Jeep Grand Cherokees.

My guess is the other aspects of those new binnacles are all much better than the older style.

Between the throttle body servo issue and this one perhaps Yamaha may come up with a software update for these new boats. Perhaps a user selectable max rpm for reverse with a click through warning message before adjusting and of course a proper home setting in the ecus for the throttle body servos.

 

[waterboy]

not meaning to hi jack the thread but a valid question for a non- e series owner but maybe a future one...

When at idle engine speed, I currently will open the bucket in forward only partially and do the same in reverse. For instance, to slightly move forward. My boat creeps ever so slightly forward in the true neutral position, so I can open the bucket in reverse very slightly to hold position if needed.

My question then is, do these buckets on your boats go to full open once you move the throttle forward? Is there no longer a slow open to forward or reverse?

If so, I see this as a huge problem as it relates to boat control at slow speeds.

As it relates to your discussion about detentes, which I think is a great idea, there should be a detente at neutral AND full open for the buckets for forward and reverse, like the old boats. That is how I know the buckets are full open and full closed.

Thanks for indulging my question, but I see this as all related... Maybe the full electronic controls aren;t that great for the buckets.

 

[Julian]

My question then is, do these buckets on your boats go to full open once you move the throttle forward? Is there no longer a slow open to forward or reverse?

I have no clue....I've been meaning to test them and see what they do....

 

[buckbuck]

Julian, if possible please take some video showing the response time of the buckets compared to the input on the throttles.

 

[Kane]

So I'm out on the boat today and it was extremely windy and I was reversing fairly hard, nothing critical but decided to really give a bunch of throttle in reverse. It almost seemed like there was a high pitch grinding noise?? Could've been cavitation, but I've owned 4 Jet boats and several Jet Skis and never felt cavitation like this. Has anyone experienced this? Seemed to also loose complete propulsion when it made this noise.
One other thing I noticed was when taking the kids tubing, I went to turn hard to Starboard, it didn't want to come around easy at all? When I turned to Port it handled perfect....I didn't know if this had something to do with the Articulating Keel or Rudder??

Sorry to Rant but more seat time = more questions.

Kind've a cool side note....I saw my 12' Ar240 on our Lake today..turns out the people live really close to us! That was a hell of a boat!

 

[Julian]

Julian, if possible please take some video showing the response time of the buckets compared to the input on the throttles.

Wasn't able to do this yesterday as I was on my own on the boat. But I'm pretty sure these gates don't move unless the engine is running....so I'm going to have to adjust my reverse intake clearing process from:

1. Reverse decent speed
2. Turn off the engines with the Keys
3. Move buckets to forward

To:

1. Reverse to decent speed
2. Move gates to forward
3. pull lanyard

Will also need to see what position they end up in with the TDE setting.

Yamaha....how about an automated intake clearing mode on these E-Series boats? One button you push where it does a launch control accleration in reverse and then auto kills the engines and moves the gates to full open!

 

[Kane]

Wasn't able to do this yesterday as I was on my own on the boat. But I'm pretty sure these gates don't move unless the engine is running....so I'm going to have to adjust my reverse intake clearing process from:

1. Reverse decent speed
2. Turn off the engines with the Keys
3. Move buckets to forward

To:

1. Reverse to decent speed
2. Move gates to forward
3. pull lanyard

Will also need to see what position they end up in with the TDE setting.

Yamaha....how about an automated intake clearing mode on these E-Series boats? One button you push where it does a launch control accleration in reverse and then auto kills the engines and moves the gates to full open!

Never even gave that process a thought!! @Julian have you been able to reverse full throttle for any length of time? I purposely reversed again yesterday and would say the noise is not grinding but almost like a high pitched spinning noise. I would like to know if anyone else is experiencing this.
Also while out checking the reverse we ripped the boat into some aggressive s turns and it handled perfect. Maybe the way I had the boat weighted while tubing it took longer to come around to Starboard.

Back out to try Wakesurfing today!!!

Enjoy your 4th!!

 

[Julian]

Reverse is definitely more sluggish with this boat....must be the shape of the transom?

 

[rmk600]

I have noticed the reverse issue also... A different sound when using a lot of throttle in reverse. Not sure what it is. I would like to be able to use full reverse just like full forward when I need it also. Some situations call for it and right now it's not there with this boat! Sucks. That's literally the only negative I have after 3 months with the boat.

 

[swatski]

So, if you loose batteries' power completely in an E-series, and need to jump start your engines with a jump pack (say -- in the middle of the ocean), can you operate the throttles and the buckets (without aux battery power)?