Racism and Healthcare in America (split from Coronavirus thread) (Closed by Bruce with Admin Consensus)

[Betik]

THIS THREAD WAS MOVED OUT OF THE CORONAVIRUS TOPIC TO KEEP THING ON TOPIC THERE - in case you are wondering why it starts rather abrubtly.


USER=13322]@Dixie Highway[/USER] at the risk of sounding political I would like to say the following. As a rule of thumb people who support social ideas ( healthcare etc) have never lived socialism, but rather have been spoiled by this great country they happen to be born and take things for granted. If anyone wants to know about social-whatever, they should befriend someone who lived in the former eastern block.

It is also worth noting that in the US, if you show up in the ER you will be treated. In China ( larger socialist country at the moment) if you cannot provide a registration certificate ( or equivalent) you are not even allowed inside the hospital ( imagine being the second child during the one child policy which will automatically disqualify you from citizenship). They will let you die in-front of the hospital. That is socialism for you my friend, but nobody likes to talk about it. No different from the media pointing out how terrible Trump's response was to COVID-19, but nobody likes to talk about Sweden who pretty much said, "to bad, we are not closing the economy; good luck" . Just like to point out the double standards on our media.

For the record, I am not thrilled how the US handled the whole pandemic, but I still think it is everyone's interest to give the administration a chance to succeed in this battle.

 

[Julian]

This is why I have a hard time trusting the Medical Profession, you would think you could hold them to a higher standard....... Its all about the cash...

19 Metro Detroiters charged in opioid scheme involving 4 doctors, 5 pharmacies, 2 million pills

Officials said 19 people from 12 different cities in Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties have been charged in a massive $41 million opioid distribution scheme that involved four doctors, two nurses, nearly 2 million pills and five Metro Detroit pharmacies.

www.clickondetroit.com

Same type of people whom overbill and do improper dictations.

Unfortunately there are bad apples in every profession.

@Dixie Highway at the risk of sounding political I would like to say the following. As a rule of thumb people who support social ideas ( healthcare etc) have never lived socialism, but rather have been spoiled by this great country they happen to be born and take things for granted. If anyone wants to know about social-whatever, they should befriend someone who lived in the former eastern block.

It is also worth noting that in the US, if you show up in the ER you will be treated. In China ( larger socialist country at the moment) if you cannot provide a registration certificate ( or equivalent) you are not even allowed inside the hospital ( imagine being the second child during the one child policy which will automatically disqualify you from citizenship). They will let you die in-front of the hospital. That is socialism for you my friend, but nobody likes to talk about it. No different from the media pointing out how terrible Trump's response was to COVID-19, but nobody likes to talk about Sweden who pretty much said, "to bad, we are not closing the economy; good luck" . Just like to point out the double standards on our media.

For the record, I am not thrilled how the US handled the whole pandemic, but I still think it is everyone's interest to give the administration a chance to succeed in this battle.

Using a communist country with a one child policy as an example of what to expect with socialized medicine is nearly absurd. Using former communist USSR experience as an example would be the next worse choice.

I've lived in socialist countries and so has my brother. He can't afford insurance (he fell into the ACA gap makes too much to be covered, but not enough to be able to afford insurance for his family). His wife who has Belgian passport goes there for care - and when they both lived there, they were both covered. No issues.

I find it absurd to think that the wealthiest country in the world can't (or actually refuses) provide healthcare for its people. Heathcare is a for profit business....of course we pay more for it here than anywhere else in the world! Pretty depressing really. It is one of the teachings of Jesus I totally agree with...care for the poor....yet we make sucky Christians.

 

[Betik]

@Julian you know how deeply I respect your opinion in the context of this forum and how much I admire your and your brother's decision of sailing half way to Florida to deliver fuel to Lakeboy. However to think that a socialist United States of America will a bigger Belgium or Sweden is naive. At the end of the day everything is a package deal and their is a reason why so many people choose the USA package rather than the Sweden package. It is that package that makes this country the healthiest country in the world because for most part its population is not forced to pay for other people's poor choices in life.

I recently celebrated my 20th year in the US, and it saddens me to see how this country has changed. I can understand and respect the Soviet Union or China to try to take down the US, but seeing its own citizens to deliberately undermine the principles that made this country great is a huge disappointment. I always thought self sabotaging is an uniquely Greek disease, but it seems I was wrong.

I am not sure this is tragic irony or herd type stupidity or hypocrisy; yet it still breaks me heart to see people protesting for the rights of minorities while it is well known fact that minorities are the ones suffering the most from Covid19. You pack thousands of people and then make them scream on each other faces. This is like covid19 heaven for God's sake.
Ask any epidemiologist or statistician and they will tell you far more people will end up in the hospital as direct consequence of protesting than a result of police "brutality". But that is okay because there is no camera capturing me getting in my Tesla, driving out of my gated community, spread germs around and then go back to my million dollar house while the receipting of my germs has to suffer 10 days later in some inner city hospital. No that does not matter because just like I volunteer once a year during Christmas, now I also have show that I care about minorities whenever there is a virus video while spending the remaining 364 days a year in gated community with my blue eye blonde spouse. Spreading germs to someone who has 5 times the chance of serious complication than me, does not matter. What matter is that I have a picture on facebook to show that I am supportive. Then comes November and mail ballot or not, I am voting for the guy who makes my 401K increase.

As some of you know my very own kids are mixed and at times being treated by their looks than the contain of their character, but that takes nothing away from the greatness of this country. The human brain is designed by nature ( or God) to use stereotyping as means of survival and cognitive efficacy. This is not racism; this is survival 101 from our ancestors the caveman. Do you know how many times I have been stopped in airports for "random check' after 9/11? I always cooperated and the end I said " thank you trying to keep us safe". Not once it crossed my mind that the FBI in Rome or Paris, Berlin or London was being racist towards me. Even in August of 2019 and 18 years later, I was hand picked out of my family to be questioned. I know the FBI agent has to inconvenience 100 good people to catch that one as*hole who wants to harm my kids. THE officer only has name and the fact that my facial hair touches my eyes. He/she cannot know what is inside my mind. I could go around and make a scene for systemic discrimination OR I could demonstrate that people who look like me have ZERO intention of harming anyone. A saint is saint because it is benchmark with other humans, but compared to God a saint is a sinner. Why compare US to the ideal and not to other countries? My family will choose US style "police brutality" and "racism" over any social country dangling free healthcare like a carrot.

@Julian I re read this and boy it sounds political, but I cannot help myself. Please, feel free to apply forum rules as an admin. I don't take it that you are strong arming me, I know better than that

 

[Dixie Highway]

I hope you aren't attempting to say systemic racism doesn't exist in the US.

I respect your opinion @Julian and will die for your right to express it, however, I'll have to take some exception to this statement. Please define for me "systemic". The word systemic indicates this is built into the construct of the nation, and is normalized and accepted by the majority. If you can show me an instance where a minority is paid less for equal work simply based on skin color then I will help you fight that injustice, as it is in fact illegal to do so. Has been for over 50 years, longer in some cases. I'd have to argue that anyone making a blanket statement about a nation being racist at it's core is also at fault for reading what confirms their biases. There are MANY factors at play besides skin color that contribute to the inequalities you mention. Equality of opportunity is much different than equality of outcome, and I'd argue the former is a whole lot easier to achieve, and a lot less dangerous.

 

[Dixie Highway]

I'll also point out that my entire post is off-topic to the thread, and I apologize. I debated even posting it, but some things my character refuses to ignore without response. I don't think it's worth taking the thread off the rails over, so I apologize to anyone following it.

 

[Julian]

I'll also point out that my entire post is off-topic to the thread, and I apologize. I debated even posting it, but some things my character refuses to ignore without response. I don't think it's worth taking the thread off the rails over, so I apologize to anyone following it.

I also took it off topic....apologies too!

Yes the term Systemic is a loaded one. Perhaps widespread is a better term as I agree, I don't think the system is "designed" to be racist....there are just far too many people who are. That said, there have been some examples of systemic racism....NYC's stop and frisk policy certainly was - but perhaps again, not by design, but in its execution.

OK....back on topic.....

Corona Virus.....it sucks and hospitalizations are on the rise again in many states - NC included.

 

[Betik]

What I am saying is that racism is this society ( US) is significantly below average when comparing to other societies/countries. The real problem is that there certain figures which get benefited when social tensions exist. And take advantage of unfortunate incidents such as Minneapolis to advanced their personal agenda without consideration of the health ramification for the very people they say they care. Remember the calls for racism in the Michael Brown case? Do you also recall the FBI investigation results ?? Did you see anyone going out to apologize for all the lies and damage done on that case under false pretenses ?

you know it is funny that we all think chairman Mao was hypocritical when he was sending waves of human bodies to the Korea peninsula in the name of protection China from the white imperialists. But when other "leaders" send the most vulnerable to protest in environment that are very likely to cause massive new infections and deaths that is okay.

I personally believe the strong has the moral responsibility ( not the legal obligation) to protect the weak. Equivalently the genius to help the dump or the doctor the sick. That is my free will and choice, not imposed to me by some authoritarian figure preaching one thing and doing the other. If someone truly cared about the African American community the first to do is to raise them out of poverty which eventually will solve all other issues, but no that is not the objective. The objective is to guilt middle age causians and hand out just enough to the masses so to keep them engaged.

No matter how we look at this the bottom line is being black in America ( or any other race) is better off than being a minority in any other country. So how about we start by saying "THANK YOU" and putting flowers on Christopher Columbuses statue instead of dumping it in the lake. The average white male is not out there to get African Americans or minorities. He just just tries to put food on his family's table. Any "racist" act he might be involved they all are unintentional.

sorry @Julian but I cannot take CNN propaganda as the status quo of this country. I look around me and I see the majority of my causasian friends being scared to fart in front of minority for the fear of being called racist.
Me, my wife/kids and non white blue eye Immigrant friends we were all welcomed wherever we went in this country , from west coast to east coast or even Mississippi. To tell you the truth we have felt more welcome on you will call the “ south “ that the North East or West cost. Which is actually one the mail reasons why we have settled in Texas instead of NY or CA.

as per the healthcare, yes there is a LOT of room for improvement. And I vividly refuse to believe that the government Is not here to self serve just like a private company is. A private entity is more honest about the objectives as they are stated in terms of dollars. The public servants on the other hand as milking votes so in turn they can be intelligence committees and use them for their own stock strategy. In all honesty the way our society is standing right now I am not sure how the healthcare Mess gets resolved. Taking more money out of my paycheck is highly unlikely to benefit those who need help the most.

 

[Betik]

Oops sorry is I was typing on cell and did not notice we got on the subject at hand.

 

[Julian]

@Betik @Dixie Highway

Figured we should move our discussion to its own thread vs gumming up the Coronavirus one.

 

[Julian]

No matter how we look at this the bottom line is being black in America ( or any other race) is better off than being a minority in any other country.

This particular comment is so wrong to me. So other countries have worse racism problems than the US, so that makes it ok for us to be less racist? NO!

 

[Betik]

So out the whole post you take out one statement out of context and interpreted as me approving whatever racism might in the US?? Not a fair argument but an acceptable rhetorical technique, so I will endeavor to respond.

Killing one person vs 10 does not make you innocent, but it sure makes you a lower priority than the serial killer. But stating what CNN said that are 2 viruses killing Americans one covid19 and the other racism is totally ridiculous. Look at you, look at your white friends others around you, do you see wide spread racism? Because I do not. Even @Amar Nanduri talked about it in his 2017 write up that his wife was worried because they will be different and did he at any point felt unwelcome or exhibit racism while being among a bunch of white folks ? Was @blacksapphirez excluded from any activities in the 2017 trip? Did he in way felt he was treated any different due to the colors of his skin? Do you think @Bill D and blond wife did not enjoy Jin and his wife company ? These last 4 year you are going to Bimini have you seen a Jetboater or family member act racist manner towards the locals in Bimini ?
no my friend there is no such thing as wide spread racism in America because if it was you will see it left and right. There is however a**holes who will intentionally put thousands of African Americans in harms way just they can advance their agenda.

 

[Julian]

So how do you explain this:

African Americans are paid less than whites at every education level

While the economy continues to improve and wages are finally beginning to inch up for most Americans, African Americans are still being paid less than whites at every education level. As you can see from the chart below, while a college education results in higher wages—both for whites and...

www.epi.org

Or do you think this data is hard to gather? I can probably find a bunch more studies. I thought this was well understood.

 

[Betik]

I will gladly take a look when I am I front a computer

 

[Scottintexas]

[USERGROUP=3]@Administrative[/USERGROUP]

I really don't think this thread is appropriate for our board,

 

[Julian]

I recuse myself from that call.

 

[Julian]

I respect your opinion @Julian and will die for your right to express it, however, I'll have to take some exception to this statement. Please define for me "systemic". The word systemic indicates this is built into the construct of the nation, and is normalized and accepted by the majority. If you can show me an instance where a minority is paid less for equal work simply based on skin color then I will help you fight that injustice, as it is in fact illegal to do so. Has been for over 50 years, longer in some cases. I'd have to argue that anyone making a blanket statement about a nation being racist at it's core is also at fault for reading what confirms their biases. There are MANY factors at play besides skin color that contribute to the inequalities you mention. Equality of opportunity is much different than equality of outcome, and I'd argue the former is a whole lot easier to achieve, and a lot less dangerous.

Here is an interesting article that touches upon structural racism. Not sure there is much difference between systemic and structural....

The Impact of Structural Racism in Employment and Wages on Minority Women’s Health

An individual’s health is impacted by a number of societal factors, including education, economic stability, and environment. These factors also contribute to disparities in health, particularly for minority women.

www.americanbar.org

The discussion about how the referral system works in big companies is so true in my experience.

 

[Betik]

As mentioned earlier I am totally okay with my posts being removed, but I cannot in good conscience accept that people of color face wide spread racism when my wife and my biracial kids have been nothing but welcome.

Are there people who are indeed racist, sure there must be. Are the hypocrites especially in my neck of the wood, sure as hell, But wide spread !!!! Please look around !!!! Please recall the last time you or anyone you know was victim of police brutality

during the times of a pandemic true leaders call for people to unite against the virus not to divide against each other.