Speaker option in boat and on shore

[Wright2e]

We are typically in our boat, floating nearby it, or sitting on a shore within about 20 feet. Our 2023 252s has 6 wet sounds speakers and a sub in it and the Yamaha controlled wet sounds amp but it lacks the rounded sounds and mid sounds. It also doesn’t project the sound around the boat much. Not looking to send the sound 80 feet back but more want that outdoor concert sound around and in the boat. What could I add to my setup to do that? Seems like tower speakers may not do the trick. Right now we just have a high end monster portable and sit it on the back of the boat floating. It’s good but would prefer the boat to be driving the sound. Maybe a soundbar or additional speakers? Different amp? Open to ideas.

 

[Julian]

I would add an amp and tower speakers (a good pair of JLs). You could add a sound bar...but they add mostly highs to high mids.

When you add the amp, make it a 4 channel at least, and figure out which speakers Yamaha ran in series, and take them out of series and wire the ones you take out to the new amp. This way, the remaining 4 speakers will get more power from the stock amp, and the 2 new and 2 existing speakers will be fully powered by the new amp. If you really want to go for it, add a 5 channel amp and add a subwoofer. And if money is no object, replace all the speakers with JL, buy all new JL amps and add speakers at the helm as well.

 

[Wright2e]

I would add an amp and tower speakers (a good pair of JLs). You could add a sound bar...but they add mostly highs to high mids.

When you add the amp, make it a 4 channel at least, and figure out which speakers Yamaha ran in series, and take them out of series and wire the ones you take out to the new amp. This way, the remaining 4 speakers will get more power from the stock amp, and the 2 new and 2 existing speakers will be fully powered by the new amp. If you really want to go for it, add a 5 channel amp and add a subwoofer. And if money is no object, replace all the speakers with JL, buy all new JL amps and add speakers at the helm as well.

I thought about taking the 6 wetsounds speakers in the boat and getting another non locked amp and replacing the existing locked amp. Thought about adding in the Fusion head and swim deck units and going away from Connext as well. Then adding in another htx4 and two tower speakers to add some mid and mid bass with some highs and ability to hear it more around the boat. Figured that may amp up the existing speakers and then add the tower for the surrounding sound. Just not been super happy with connext running the show.

 

[JDRacing]

Is Yamaha still wiring Wet Sounds speakers in series? If so, that's the first thing to change. Ideally, one speaker per channel, adding enough amps to do so, if necessary. If you need to run two sets of speakers on any channel, they should be in parallel, not series, as that's how the Wet Sounds Amps are designed to operate. And, if you're going to stay with Wet Sounds (I did), some Rev 10's on the tower (or even Rev 8's) will do what you are looking for. Add an HTX-4 amp bridged to 300 watts/channel for the Rev 10's, and I think you will like the results.

Hopefully no speakers are currently wired in series, or you're probably going to want to rewire the existing speakers as well. I ended up having to rewire my whole Wet Sounds system from the factory, since Yamaha indeed wired speakers in series (and did a lot worse, actually) which Wet Sounds told me in multiple customer service calls that that was never what Wet Sounds intended or recommended.

I'm guessing you have a 6 channel HTX-6 DSP (programmed tuning--non adjustable) amp from the factory. Probably wired as follows--swim deck speakers with either the bow or main cabin speakers wired (hopefully in parallel) on two of the channels. The other pair of speakers wired on two additional channels, and the sub wired on a bridged pair of channels. If that's how it's set up, you're probably ok as is. Just add some quality tower speakers (Wet Sounds or JL) and a matching amp pumping out at least 200 watts/channel (preferably 300) and see how you like it.

You can always add more later, after you figure out what else you might want. I did mine in stages and am really happy with the results. Mid cabin speakers (at or below the helm) would be a good addition for cutting through engine noise and wind while you're tooling along.

Jeff

 

[Wright2e]

Is Yamaha still wiring Wet Sounds speakers in series? If so, that's the first thing to change. Ideally, one speaker per channel, adding enough amps to do so, if necessary. If you need to run two sets of speakers on any channel, they should be in parallel, not series, as that's how the Wet Sounds Amps are designed to operate. And, if you're going to stay with Wet Sounds (I did), some Rev 10's on the tower (or even Rev 8's) will do what you are looking for. Add an HTX-4 amp bridged to 300 watts/channel for the Rev 10's, and I think you will like the results.

Hopefully no speakers are currently wired in series, or you're probably going to want to rewire the existing speakers as well. I ended up having to rewire my whole Wet Sounds system from the factory, since Yamaha indeed wired speakers in series (and did a lot worse, actually) which Wet Sounds told me in multiple customer service calls that that was never what Wet Sounds intended or recommended.

I'm guessing you have a 6 channel HTX-6 DSP (programmed tuning--non adjustable) amp from the factory. Probably wired as follows--swim deck speakers with either the bow or main cabin speakers wired (hopefully in parallel) on two of the channels. The other pair of speakers wired on two additional channels, and the sub wired on a bridged pair of channels. If that's how it's set up, you're probably ok as is. Just add some quality tower speakers (Wet Sounds or JL) and a matching amp pumping out at least 200 watts/channel (preferably 300) and see how you like it.

You can always add more later, after you figure out what else you might want. I did mine in stages and am really happy with the results. Mid cabin speakers (at or below the helm) would be a good addition for cutting through engine noise and wind while you're tooling along.

Jeff

I have a 252s and it has the amp that is locked. Sounds like if I understand you correctly, just adding the two rev 10 and the htx4 amp would make a major difference on the sound and mids. I think my speakers are wired as you say since they came set up from Yamaha.

 

[jacoviii]

252 and 255 with HTX6 AMP
CH1 White/W,Black...................Left Cabin and bow............Parallel @2ohm
CH2 Gray/G,Black......................Right Cabin and bow..........Parallel @2ohm

CH3 Green/G,Black....................Left stern..................................... @4ohm
CH4 Purple/P,Black....................Right stern.................................. @4ohm

CH5 Yellow.................................Sub positive................................. @4ohm
CH6 Yellow/Black.....................Sub negative................................ @4ohm
CH5 & CH6 are bridged @ 4ohm 300w

255 with HTX4 AMP Tower AMP
CH1 Green/G,Black....................Left Tower 8".............................@4ohm
CH2 Blue/B,Black.......................Right Tower 8"...........................@4ohm
CH3 Green/G,Black.....................Left Soundbar.......................... @4ohm
CH4 Purple/P,Black.....................Right Soundbar.......................... @4ohm

 

[JDRacing]

That is outstanding information, @jacoviii. I spent at least 8 hours mapping my 2018 212X audio system, to get to similar information on my boat. And what I found was an absolute wiring mess. Glad that Yamaha finally got their act together on the Wet Sounds wiring.

I'm assuming the stock tower 8" on the 255 are the Wet Sounds Icon series. @Wright2e, If you are going to run either the Rev 8 or Rev 10 series in the tower (which are Wet Sounds' higher grade tower speakers) on your 252, I suggest bridging the HTX-4 to get 300 watts per channel.

Or better yet get another HTX-6, and have two additional channels for eventual mid cabin speakers--@Julian gave me that same advice about buying the larger amp with two extra channels 6 years ago and it proved to be golden.

Jeff

 

[JDRacing]

In case you might find it helpful, @Wright2e, here's a writeup of my installation of Rev 8's and additional amp from a couple years ago.

Post in thread 'Wet Sounds Rev 8 Upgrade Project'

Aug 3, 2019

Thank you for the kind comments.

No, I really didn't look closely at the Sinister series. Was focused mostly on either the bridged HTX-4 or the SYN-DX2, once it became clear that the existing HTX-6 amplifiers weren't going to be right for the added Rev 8's, no matter how I configured them.

In hindsight, I might have pushed Wet Sounds Customer Service a bit on whether, for Rev 8's, it would have made a difference going to the bridged SYN-DX4, rather than the HTX-4. But my thinking was that the bridged HTX-4 at 300W RMS/channel (and the other published specs) should be sufficient for...

• JDRacing

Jeff

 

[kgower]

Is Yamaha still wiring Wet Sounds speakers in series? If so, that's the first thing to change. Ideally, one speaker per channel, adding enough amps to do so, if necessary. If you need to run two sets of speakers on any channel, they should be in parallel, not series, as that's how the Wet Sounds Amps are designed to operate. And, if you're going to stay with Wet Sounds (I did), some Rev 10's on the tower (or even Rev 8's) will do what you are looking for. Add an HTX-4 amp bridged to 300 watts/channel for the Rev 10's, and I think you will like the results.

Hopefully no speakers are currently wired in series, or you're probably going to want to rewire the existing speakers as well. I ended up having to rewire my whole Wet Sounds system from the factory, since Yamaha indeed wired speakers in series (and did a lot worse, actually) which Wet Sounds told me in multiple customer service calls that that was never what Wet Sounds intended or recommended.

I'm guessing you have a 6 channel HTX-6 DSP (programmed tuning--non adjustable) amp from the factory. Probably wired as follows--swim deck speakers with either the bow or main cabin speakers wired (hopefully in parallel) on two of the channels. The other pair of speakers wired on two additional channels, and the sub wired on a bridged pair of channels. If that's how it's set up, you're probably ok as is. Just add some quality tower speakers (Wet Sounds or JL) and a matching amp pumping out at least 200 watts/channel (preferably 300) and see how you like it.

You can always add more later, after you figure out what else you might want. I did mine in stages and am really happy with the results. Mid cabin speakers (at or below the helm) would be a good addition for cutting through engine noise and wind while you're tooling along.

Jeff

Can you explain the difference between "in series and parallel "?

 

[JDRacing]

For boating purposes, I think the easiest way to think about it is that if a pair of speakers are wired to an amplifier channel in parallel, the positive and negative leads of EACH speaker goes to the positive and negative leads (respectively) of that channel.

In series, the positive lead from one amplifier channel goes to the positive lead of the first speaker, and then the negative lead of that first speaker goes to the positive lead of the second speaker, and the negative lead of the second speaker goes back to the negative lead of the amplifier channel. Whatever the voltage drop is across the first speaker is lost to the second speaker when they are in series. The total voltage across the system is the sum of the voltage drop across each speaker. The amperage delivered to each speaker is the same.

In parallel, each speaker sees the same voltage supplied by the channel. For example, if the amp output is 20 volts, each speaker sees 20 volts. But the amperage to each speaker is cut in half compared to series.



An easy way to check if a speaker set is wired in series or parallel is to carefully remove the speaker from the boat and then, with the radio on, carefully remove one of the wire's speaker spade clip MAKING SURE NOT TO LET IT TOUCH ANYTHING, PARTICULARLY THE OTHER WIRE. If the other speaker connected to that channel continues to play, it's in parallel to the first speaker. If the second speaker cuts out as well, it's wired in series.

Old style Christmas tree light were wired in series--when one bulb burned out the whole string went out, and you didn't really know which bulb was bad. Newer strings are wired in parallel--the rest stay lit and you can easily identify the bad bulb.

Jeff

 

[kgower]

For boating purposes, I think the easiest way to think about it is that if a pair of speakers are wired to an amplifier channel in parallel, the positive and negative leads of EACH speaker goes to the positive and negative leads (respectively) of that channel.

In series, the positive lead from one amplifier channel goes to the positive lead of the first speaker, and then the negative lead of that first speaker goes to the positive lead of the second speaker, and the negative lead of the second speaker goes back to the negative lead of the amplifier channel. Whatever the voltage drop is across the first speaker is lost to the second speaker when they are in series. The total voltage across the system is the sum of the voltage drop across each speaker. The amperage delivered to each speaker is the same.

In parallel, each speaker sees the same voltage supplied by the channel. For example, if the amp output is 20 volts, each speaker sees 20 volts. But the amperage to each speaker is cut in half compared to series.

View attachment 226709

An easy way to check if a speaker set is wired in series or parallel is to carefully remove the speaker from the boat and then, with the radio on, carefully remove one of the wire's speaker spade clip MAKING SURE NOT TO LET IT TOUCH ANYTHING, PARTICULARLY THE OTHER WIRE. If the other speaker connected to that channel continues to play, it's in parallel to the first speaker. If the second speaker cuts out as well, it's wired in series.

Old style Christmas tree light were wired in series--when one bulb burned out the whole string went out, and you didn't really know which bulb was bad. Newer strings are wired in parallel--the rest stay lit and you can easily identify the bad bulb.

Jeff

Thanks Jeff. When I added mid cabin speakers to our 195s (previous boat) I ran the positive and negative from the amp to the mid cabin speaker and then ran both wires to the bow., The reae speakers nearest the engine had a separategivingit more power. If I understood the would be in series?

 

[JDRacing]

No, I think what you are describing is a parallel setup between your mid cabin and bow speakers. So long as both speakers are receiving a positive signal from the amp to both positive terminals of the speakers, and a negative signal from the negative terminal of the amp to both negative terminals of the speakers, you are in parallel. You accomplished that by tying positive to positive and negative to negative on the speakers. So long as the gauge of the wire from going to your mid cabin speakers is sufficient to carry the load of both the cabin and bow speakers, it's good to go. If you used 14 gauge, that's certainly sufficient. 16 would probably work too.

Jeff

 

[Wright2e]

That is outstanding information, @jacoviii. I spent at least 8 hours mapping my 2018 212X audio system, to get to similar information on my boat. And what I found was an absolute wiring mess. Glad that Yamaha finally got their act together on the Wet Sounds wiring.

I'm assuming the stock tower 8" on the 255 are the Wet Sounds Icon series. @Wright2e, If you are going to run either the Rev 8 or Rev 10 series in the tower (which are Wet Sounds' higher grade tower speakers) on your 252, I suggest bridging the HTX-4 to get 300 watts per channel.

Or better yet get another HTX-6, and have two additional channels for eventual mid cabin speakers--@Julian gave me that same advice about buying the larger amp with two extra channels 6 years ago and it proved to be golden.

Jeff

I like the idea of the htx6 for the additional speakers down the road. This has been very helpful!

 

[Wright2e]

Any of you add a third battery for supporting the second amp or just running it off of the house battery with the other amp?

 

[jacoviii]

Subwoofer Enclosure Calculators, Parallel, Series, Port Length and Volume

www.the12volt.com

 

[JDRacing]

For two amps, or even three, I've found that the single Auxiliary battery (two batteries total, including the cranking/system battery) are sufficient. I reference that in the thread I linked above about installing the Rev 8's and a third amp--after 5 years, I've never had an issue with one auxiliary battery. Now, if you're running music at higher volumes for 6-8 hours at a stretch, your mileage may vary. I usually have the system in float mode for no more than two hours with the music going. Never had to worry about draining the aux. battery.

 

[kgower]

I like the idea of the htx6 for the additional speakers down the road. This has been very helpful!

If the budget allows, go with WS SYN-DX6. Channels 5 & 6 have more power than 1 4. It made a big difference in the output of the sub over the HTX-6.

 

[Wright2e]

For two amps, or even three, I've found that the single Auxiliary battery (two batteries total, including the cranking/system battery) are sufficient. I reference that in the thread I linked above about installing the Rev 8's and a third amp--after 5 years, I've never had an issue with one auxiliary battery. Now, if you're running music at higher volumes for 6-8 hours at a stretch, your mileage may vary. I usually have the system in float mode for no more than two hours with the music going. Never had to worry about draining the aux. battery.

You being up a good point though. We are typically sitting in float mode playing music to hear on the shore 20 ft away or floating around the boat. Might be out there for 5-7 hours. Guess I can see how it goes and then if I need another battery I can figure out how to add it into the mix. I just noticed that the switches right now really only support two batteries in how they are setup.

 

[Wright2e]

If the budget allows, g0 with WS SYN-DX6. Channels 5 & 6 have more power than 14. It made a big difference in the output of the sub over the HTX-6.

I looked at them but this amp is only for the tower speakers and possibly some additional speakers in the middle of the boat down the road.

 

[JDRacing]

You being up a good point though. We are typically sitting in float mode playing music to hear on the shore 20 ft away or floating around the boat. Might be out there for 5-7 hours. Guess I can see how it goes and then if I need another battery I can figure out how to add it into the mix. I just noticed that the switches right now really only support two batteries in how they are setup.

If you decide you need another auxiliary battery, I think you could get a second deep cycle battery and wire it in parallel with the first auxiliary battery. That should double your available audio power reserve and both batteries would still be controlled by the auxiliary power switch.

Jeff