Switching Back to Cobras this weekend

[Jeff L24]

This is my second season with my 2021 Yamaha 195S. I used Cobra AK19 Deluxe last year and was overall pleased. My boat did seem to pull to the left while up on plane but it seems to do that without the Cobra system so it must just be my boat.
This season I switched to Thrust Vector L. I originally thought they would perform better because the fin was bigger, especially the section that sits below the hull and can catch undisturbed water. On my first few trips I thought they performed better than the Cobras at idle and No Wake 1. However, I soon noticed at No Wake 2 & 3 it started to track poorly. Is it possible the fins are already up at 5-6mph? I also noticed that in rougher water the stern felt more slippery, less locked in. And I take the kids tubing in a narrow section of river that I don't recall having any trouble with last year, but this year the boat can barely make the turn before hitting the shore. Lastly, I feel like reverse is significantly less responsive. I know the TV-L do not interfere with the reverse thrust but the fin shape doesn't seem to grab as much water when in reverse.

I'm wondering how many others tried Thrust Vectors and switched to Cobras? I've used JBP for other items, like Marine Mat. They are a good company. I'm just trying to compare TV vs Cobras for my single engine 19 footer.

 

[jimbobalu]

I initially installed TVs but they did nothing at speed so I switched to the Cobras and have been very happy. The TVs really didn't seem to help much at idle and wake speeds either.

Make sure the stabilizer bar is formed correctly, mine wasn't and Jeff sent a replacement.

 

[Jeff L24]

I initially installed TVs but they did nothing at speed so I switched to the Cobras and have been very happy. The TVs really didn't seem to help much at idle and wake speeds either.

Make sure the stabilizer bar is formed correctly, mine wasn't and Jeff sent a replacement.

What do mean by formed correctly, was it noticeably bent or something? I had mine in holes 4/5 most of last year, I think I'm going to put them in the lowest setting (5/6) this time.

 

[jimbobalu]

The crossbar was not bent with the correct angles to connect with the fins. I'm just saying make sure the fins are parallel or possibly toed in at the bottom. I haven't had a tracking issue that I've noticed.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Pretty much every review on here comparing the two says the Cobras are superior.

 

[Neutron]

?

 

[Judge]

Lastly, I feel like reverse is significantly less responsive. I know the TV-L do not interfere with the reverse thrust but the fin shape doesn't seem to grab as much water when in reverse.

If you went with the new TV-L design, did you also add the Lateral Thrusters. The purpose of the new fin design was to accommodate the Lateral Thrusters, which would help with reverse and low speed manuevering.

I had Cobra's on my '14 SV192. They were ok but I felt like they made the steering heavier on plane. Maybe because I had another jet and was used to the way the steering performed.

I originally bought them more for low speed maneuverability. They did help a little but I didn't think it was dramatic. Again, I maybe didn't feel a big difference because I had a Berkley jet before that and I actually fabricated an aluminum rudder that was mounted to the nozzle. It helped the low speed performance since it acted more like a rudder. They Cobras on the SX192 and the rudder I put on my Berkley jet probably performed pretty close to the same at low speed.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

If you went with the new TV-L design, did you also add the Lateral Thrusters. The purpose of the new fin design was to accommodate the Lateral Thrusters, which would help with reverse and low speed manuevering.

I had Cobra's on my '14 SV192. They were ok but I felt like they made the steering heavier on plane. Maybe because I had another jet and was used to the way the steering performed.

I originally bought them more for low speed maneuverability. They did help a little but I didn't think it was dramatic. Again, I maybe didn't feel a big difference because I had a Berkley jet before that and I actually fabricated an aluminum rudder that was mounted to the nozzle. It helped the low speed performance since it acted more like a rudder. They Cobras on the SX192 and the rudder I put on my Berkley jet probably performed pretty close to the same at low speed.

Have you had the latest cobra super steering or the early ones because the super steering is a whole new ballgame. Also with the new Yamaha nozzles I warn people not to mess with the new design that started in 2019 the V configuration of the 2 angled reverse jets exiting the nozzle when in reverse is a very good design and taking away 40 percent of the existing reverse push to have more side push is really not what I would do. I would use the independent throttles and learn to just bump them in reverse or forward to rotate the boat. My super steering automatically changes it's high speed and slow speed influence as needed and the second tie rod is very important for balance redundancy and longevity , the small plaining surfaces do help with faster plaining, smoother ride in chop and a cleaner area behind the boat for water sport activities. Plus adjustments to fine tune the steering to your personal preference and with my super fins combined with the new nozzle design the reverse handling is excellent as reported by customers . Just remember over 20 years of making steering for jet boats leads to better designs and numerous versions to choose from not just a one size fits all setup. . And no plastic parts . A comparison video from a person who had no intention of cyhanging his steering until he tried my super steering.

 

[Sherwood]

Pretty pleased with the basic cobra kit I got for my 210 fsh. A little confused on the setting holes. I got in whatever the directions said. Looks like deeper would be better to me.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

So try it and see

 

[lazergeek]

Pretty pleased with the basic cobra kit I got for my 210 fsh. A little confused on the setting holes. I got in whatever the directions said. Looks like deeper would be better to me.

I have mine set all the way down but im always boating in the ocean with waves and swell.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I believe all the way down is the best setting. I think he offered different settings for the crazies that think they will hit something (even though the keel sits lower)

 

[Sherwood]

I believe all the way down is the best setting. I think he offered different settings for the crazies that think they will hit something (even though the keel sits lower)

I have mine set all the way down but im always boating in the ocean with waves and swell.

I doubt I will ever have mine in freshwater.

 

[Jeff L24]

Made the change tonight, set it all the way down. Will run it this weekend and test my theories.

 

[Judge]

Have you had the latest cobra super steering or the early ones because the super steering is a whole new ballgame. Also with the new Yamaha nozzles I warn people not to mess with the new design that started in 2019 the V configuration of the 2 angled reverse jets exiting the nozzle when in reverse is a very good design and taking away 40 percent of the existing reverse push to have more side push is really not what I would do. I would use the independent throttles and learn to just bump them in reverse or forward to rotate the boat. My super steering automatically changes it's high speed and slow speed influence as needed and the second tie rod is very important for balance redundancy and longevity , the small plaining surfaces do help with faster plaining, smoother ride in chop and a cleaner area behind the boat for water sport activities. Plus adjustments to fine tune the steering to your personal preference and with my super fins combined with the new nozzle design the reverse handling is excellent as reported by customers . Just remember over 20 years of making steering for jet boats leads to better designs and numerous versions to choose from not just a one size fits all setup. . And no plastic parts . A comparison video from a person who had no intention of cyhanging his steering until he tried my super steering.

Thanks for the information......

I purchased your system as soon as I ordered my '14 SX192 back then. I have not had an opportunity to try any of the newer designs released since then so 8 years is a long time.

So what is your recommendation for the '22 275SD?

Sounds like to not install Lateral Thrusters. I know another 275SD owner said they would not be needed. I have been kicking this around as I've looked more and more into the new reverse design. I had intended to use independent throttles as conditions warranted so if you feel Yamaha's redesign solves a lot of the reverse issues, I may start out without installing the Lateral Thrusters.

I'm not going to be doing any water sports. Mostly cruising the Gulf and the Intercoastal in southwest Florida. I'm more interested in the best improvements for low speed and docking maneuvering.

What would be your recommendation for the best low speed handling?

Thx in advance!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

To address your questions

So what is your recommendation for the '22 275SD? I would strongly suggest the super magnum ak-19 deluxe system based on what you say is your normal usage. I have 50 years of experience in the gulf of Mexico and in the bay. So I am very familiar with it. Understand that my systems use super fins. When your boat is up on plane the nozzles and 1/3rd of the rudder are above the water so only the portion of the fins below the nozzles are providing extra steering control and you get to set that to your preference. That being said the boat will handle excellently in wind, waves, strong currents .
When the boat is down off plane the entire surface of the super fins, built from tempered aluminum and with NO sharp or pointed edges to catch the ground or dig into the sand going backward. This large surface area also gets more help from the top fins that only contact the water when the boat is off plane. Remember there is a lot of hull resistance when that boat is going slow so it needs a lot more push when steering at slow speed.

Sounds like to not install Lateral Thrusters. I know another 275SD owner said they would not be needed. I have been kicking this around as I've looked more and more into the new reverse design. I had intended to use independent throttles as conditions warranted so if you feel Yamaha's redesign solves a lot of the reverse issues, I may start out without installing the Lateral Thrusters. In combination with my super steering reverse will work excellently and using the controls is even better Once you start realizing the shortcomings of the original rudder setup I think you will really appreciate the difference the super magnum system provides even in off power control .

I'm not going to be doing any water sports. Mostly cruising the Gulf and the Intercoastal in southwest Florida. I'm more interested in the best improvements for low speed and docking maneuvering. Once you get in one of our fast approaching nasty thunder storms with big waves and strong winds you will realize just how small your boat is and how important the extra steering is.

What would be your recommendation for the best low speed handling? As I said the super steering is tempered aluminum it does not hang below the rudder it is made to provide you with improved steering at all speeds and during rapid deceleration it also has the patented second tie rod for balance redundancy and improved longevity. This also allows you to set the nozzles and steering for great straight tracking on plane and eliminates the bow wander when decelerating. And due to it's strength there is no need for any cross bars or braces between the fins below the nozzle.

 

[Judge]

To address your questions

So what is your recommendation for the '22 275SD? I would strongly suggest the super magnum ak-19 deluxe system based on what you say is your normal usage. I have 50 years of experience in the gulf of Mexico and in the bay. So I am very familiar with it. Understand that my systems use super fins. When your boat is up on plane the nozzles and 1/3rd of the rudder are above the water so only the portion of the fins below the nozzles are providing extra steering control and you get to set that to your preference. That being said the boat will handle excellently in wind, waves, strong currents .
When the boat is down off plane the entire surface of the super fins, built from tempered aluminum and with NO sharp or pointed edges to catch the ground or dig into the sand going backward. This large surface area also gets more help from the top fins that only contact the water when the boat is off plane. Remember there is a lot of hull resistance when that boat is going slow so it needs a lot more push when steering at slow speed.

Sounds like to not install Lateral Thrusters. I know another 275SD owner said they would not be needed. I have been kicking this around as I've looked more and more into the new reverse design. I had intended to use independent throttles as conditions warranted so if you feel Yamaha's redesign solves a lot of the reverse issues, I may start out without installing the Lateral Thrusters. In combination with my super steering reverse will work excellently and using the controls is even better Once you start realizing the shortcomings of the original rudder setup I think you will really appreciate the difference the super magnum system provides even in off power control .

I'm not going to be doing any water sports. Mostly cruising the Gulf and the Intercoastal in southwest Florida. I'm more interested in the best improvements for low speed and docking maneuvering. Once you get in one of our fast approaching nasty thunder storms with big waves and strong winds you will realize just how small your boat is and how important the extra steering is.

What would be your recommendation for the best low speed handling? As I said the super steering is tempered aluminum it does not hang below the rudder it is made to provide you with improved steering at all speeds and during rapid deceleration it also has the patented second tie rod for balance redundancy and improved longevity. This also allows you to set the nozzles and steering for great straight tracking on plane and eliminates the bow wander when decelerating. And due to it's strength there is no need for any cross bars or braces between the fins below the nozzle.

Thank you for your detailed response! I do appreciate it very much and have used your products on my last Yamaha (that I sold two years ago).

I was going to install the Thrust Vectors but you have given me a lot to consider before moving forward with that approach. Fortunately, I have several weeks till I get the boat into the dock and lift.

Once last question.... based on the info above, I would not need the Cobra Fangs... I would just need the Super Magnum AK-19 Deluxe, correct?

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

the fangs serve 2 purposes for their original design on the 2015 to 2018 nozzles and they are very effective but on the new nozzles 2019 up although the fangs still produce a power steering effect I feel that they can diminish the new angled reverse thrust so I have been informing people who order both that I would wait and just do the steering alone if they want to try the ak fangs after that the price is the same so do it later .

 

[mwalker4]

I believe all the way down is the best setting. I think he offered different settings for the crazies that think they will hit something (even though the keel sits lower)

I have a single engine, thus things are different. Personally, after trying a few different ways, I think all the way down blocked too much of the side thrust from the rear buckets. It does slightly improve forward tracking. So I have my fins one hole up (4-5?). That works best for me.

 

[Judge]

the fangs serve 2 purposes for their original design on the 2015 to 2018 nozzles and they are very effective but on the new nozzles 2019 up although the fangs still produce a power steering effect I feel that they can diminish the new angled reverse thrust so I have been informing people who order both that I would wait and just do the steering alone if they want to try the ak fangs after that the price is the same so do it later .

My 275SD has power steering so it sounds like they would not add any benefits for my boat... so I would just go with the Super Magnum AK-19 Deluxe.

Thanks again for taking time to answer my questions!