To Foil or Not to Foil...

[RiverRat86]

Hello all, new owner of a 2020 AR 190. I've been surfing behind a friend's wakeboard boat now for 5+ years. Now that I have a boat I'm trying to decide what route to go....spend the money on ballasts, wakebooster, etc. to be able to surf or get into wake foiling. It looks really fun and I love a new challenge. My question, could I foil surf (ropeless) without all the ballasts? If so, a foil board ($1,000+) looks like it would be about the same price as all the ballasts and gear I would need to surf.

 

[J-RAD]

I'm a little but bias of an ovum on this topic. Mostly because I'm a Slingshot dealer who'd live to sell you a foil... lol!

The answer is absolutely you can learn to surf the wake of your 190. There would be a learning curve to getting there, but you'll have a great time along the way. Guys are able to surf waverunner wakes.

I easily have double the cost of a foil invested in making my AR240 surfable. I spent $2k just on my original 3 bag 3 pump ballast. Then there's the shaper, the swim deck bag and pump, and another $1k fir the speed control. Yikes! That's the cost of fun.

Anyway, I'd be happy to discuss package options and quote you a price. Let me know. ??

 

[2kwik4u]

I have a '17 AR190.

I'll buy a foil before I buy ballast/pumps/shaper I think. I just don't like the time/effort it takes to setup and tear down a good setup for a jetboat. A few people have made some really fast deploy systems, and have gotten the setup time down under 5min, but it's still a setup. I'm also not a fan of putting the run rail under water on purpose. I know lots do this too, just doesn't feel like a good idea for me personally.

I'm also a bit biased, because I currently ride a Wakeskate. It's the only board I carry on the boat. I takes SECONDS to setup and use. Hook up rope, toss on a vest, and jump in the water. That's it. Board stores in the locker up against the side with tons of room for other stuff, so no. Oard racks required (makes tiring up with others easier). The skate also favors less wake. Just need a tiny lip to play on, the rest of the fun is out in the flats for spins, kicklfips, pillows, etc.

I WILL be getting speed control though. Beyond just watersports, there are good benefits to cruising with a good GPS based speed control. Launch profiles, and ease of speed control for boarding will ease the strain on the driver (usually my wife) and anything that makes her day better makes my day better!

Good luck!

 

[RiverRat86]

Thanks guys- so does anyone have video of actually foiling ropeless behind a 19 or 20 foot boat with no ballasts, shapers, etc.?

 

[marcham]

I've been working on it. Unfortunately, with my svelt 210lbs, going ropeless is probably not going to happen. No problem for my daughter and wife though. The fact remains that the 195 / 190 is a small light boat. To make a big wave, you need big displacement.

We use a wakebooster and almost 1200lbs of ballast. I use a 5'3" board and can surf decently behind bigger boats. Wave is about knee high for me. I can still surf and have fun, but can't throw the rope into the boat.

 

[2kwik4u]

@marcham brings up another good point. I'm a 220lb guy. The chances of me going ropeless on a 19' without a TON of ballast are pretty low.

 

[RiverRat86]

I guess that's my question...does a foil board allow you to surf ropeless with a smaller wake than a regular wake surf board?

 

[J-RAD]

With a 76cm or 84cm foil wing it's totally possible. @JDub is who I'd defer to in his opinion of the Infinity 84 wing.

 

[J-RAD]

I guess that's my question...does a foil board allow you to surf ropeless with a smaller wake than a regular wake surf board?

Absolutely it does. Check out this post from Throttlesteer behind his exciter

I finally got rid of the rope pullng behind my 220 Exciter. I got the 84 Infinity to get more lift but the rear 48mm stabilizer wing was getting upset so I went back to the original green wakefoil stabilizer and it was was more stabile near the jet wash energy. I try to stay in the bubbles coming off the bow at 9 mph. Trying to get better so I can go faster.

I’m in Boise. If your in Utah we should get together, I would love to compare notes.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[2kwik4u]

@J-RAD That looks amazing. Off an Exciter no-less.

Any idea how much "pumping" he has to do to stay there? Judging by his body language I would say he's just "hanging out" in the pocket there, and letting the wake energy move him along. Pretty cool either way!

 

[J-RAD]

@J-RAD That looks amazing. Off an Exciter no-less.

Any idea how much "pumping" he has to do to stay there? Judging by his body language I would say he's just "hanging out" in the pocket there, and letting the wake energy move him along. Pretty cool either way!

I don't think he's doing hardly any pumping. It's just a matter if matching the wave energy with the speed and lift of the wing. The Infinity 84 wing is bigger and generates more lift at a lower speed while it's top speed is a bit more limited. He likely can go faster but it may require a extra pump he and there. The 76 would also work, but it would actually require a bit more speed to generate the same lift.

 

[spatty99]

If you want something that everyone can try/do, go with surfing (the learning curve is a lot steeper and longer for the foil). Otherwise, definitely go with the foil, especially given a smaller wake.... you can foil a jetski wake. I have a v-drive with comparatively massive wave and surfing feels like slow motion in molasses after foiling, it is so much faster and more efficient.

I'm a fan of the Slingshot Infinity 84. From my riding and all of the reviews I've seen (e.g., check out Half-Life or Houston Kiteboarding on youtube). The 84 is a great all around shape and tolerates a huge range of speeds and weights.

 

[J-RAD]

If you want something that everyone can try/do, go with surfing (the learning curve is a lot steeper and longer for the foil). Otherwise, definitely go with the foil, especially given a smaller wake.... you can foil a jetski wake. I have a v-drive with comparatively massive wave and surfing feels like slow motion in molasses after foiling, it is so much faster and more efficient.

I'm a fan of the Slingshot Infinity 84. From my riding and all of the reviews I've seen (e.g., check out Half-Life or Houston Kiteboarding on youtube). The 84 is a great all around shape and tolerates a huge range of speeds and weights.

I couldn't remember if you were one on the 84 wing as well or not... I thought maybe... I'm glad you chimed in!

I just had someone upgrade to the 84 today after a long discussion.

 

[J-RAD]

@spatty99 which wing did you start with?

 

[RiverRat86]

Is there a full package that comes with the 84wing? The biggest I've found is the Fsurf with Infinity 76.

 

[J-RAD]

Is there a full package that comes with the 84wing? The biggest I've found is the Fsurf with Infinity 76.

Yes, we have access to the Fsup package that comes with the Infinity 84cm wing, 48cm rear wing, 71cm mast, mounting plate, fuselage, and carrying case. This can be paired with whatever board you choose. I can quote you on this if you like?

 

[RiverRat86]

Yes, we have access to the Fsup package that comes with the Infinity 84cm wing, 48cm rear wing, 71cm mast, mounting plate, fuselage, and carrying case. This can be paired with whatever board you choose. I can quote you on this if you like?

Yes please send me some info.

 

[J-RAD]

Yes please send me some info.

Cool! I'll DM you in the morning.


I drafted the below earlier and I guess I never hit send.

I was asking @spatty99 which wing he learned on because generally it is recommended for folks to start off by learning wake style on a smaller wing like the Gamma 68 to learn the fundamentals and then graduate up to the 76 or 84. I have had customers go staight to the 76 and never heard a whisper of complaint. I do like to echo the recommendation though.

If I recall correctly I think he converted from a liquid force.

 

[spatty99]

I started on a Liquid Force Fish. It was designed for kiteboarding, so not great behind the boat (liked to go too fast and had a crazy tall mast).

The 84 is great for beginners up through advanced. I would simply pick between the Infinity 76, 84 and 99 based on rider weight. IIRC, the 84 is good for something like 170 to 220ish pounds (and provides ride-able lift from 6 to about 16 mph). Riders above or below that weight can pick the smaller or larger wings. You can adjust the wing/board position to reduce/increase the lift.

 

[J-RAD]

Yes please send me some info.

Message sent with package and discount code information.