Wakesurf, What am I doing wrong?

[Thor]

I have a Koal Ronix Longboard, and I can surf all day with the rope. It is blast to surf, but I cant seem to get do it without the rope, I don't need much pull on the rope so I think I am getting some forward motion. I don't have ballast and am afraid I need a bigger wake, was really hoping to avoid that install. Any tips or ideas?

BTW, while surfing I noticed the jet output was completely above the surface of the water! I had always assumed the jet were below the surface..

Thanks in advance

 

[Julian]

Unless you weigh less than 100lbs you wont be able to surf without ballast...sorry to say. I suppose if you got a SUP you could, but that wouldn't be as much fun.

 

[buckbuck]

Yea, you're going to need ballast or some really chubby friends.

 

[Chillypilot]

You need at least 2000lbs of ballast and a few friends.

 

[jasoraso]

I surf no-rope without having to fill up the ballast bags. My surf board is an Inland Surfer Red Woody. I purposefully bought a VERY buoyant board. However, it makes it difficult for my 110lb daughter to get up on (she has to hold it vertical, with her feet on the board before the boat starts pulling her).

In my opinion, ballast certainly helps free riding (and I will fill up a 600 lb bag when I have less than 6 people in the boat), but so does technique. I tell beginners to make sure they have a VERY wide stance i.e. your back foot close to the back of the board, and your front foot close to the front - you want to be able to shift your weight front to back and back to front VERY quickly.

When you are surfing, you need put weight on the front so you are surfing DOWN the wave. As you start surfing down the wave, you will need to shift your weight back to the rear foot so you don't submarine the front of the board when you get to the bottom of the wave. After a few weight transfers, you will start to find the happy medium where you are surfing down the wave, but not reaching the bottom

Ballast gives you a bigger wave - so you have bigger sweet spot to stay in before your nose of the board submarines. And a less buoyant board will definitely require a bigger sweet spot, too. But you can also buy a 500-700lb ballast bag w/ pump for $200 and put it on the back swim deck or on the floor of the middle of the boat. It certainly will help! When we are doing a lot of surfing - I fill mine up.

The picture below: no ballast bag, water depth only 10ft (15ft+ is preferred).

 

[redthumper9]

@jasoraso .....what speed? I am going out this afternoon with several "full size" dudes. We wakeboard and surf, but have never even come close to ropeless. It wasn't until a week or so ago that I learned water depth made a difference. We were in 5-8' of water and I couldnt figure out why my wake was smaller than usual.

 

[jasoraso]

We usually surf around 10mph.

Have 2 big guys put on life jackets and sit on swim deck while someone surfs, if its legal in your neck of the woods. That can help too - just don't refer to the friends as ballast. It doesn't go over well.

 

[Scottintexas]

@jasoraso how do you tell if it's "very buoyant" I've got a Liquid Force fish, would you consider it very buoyant?

 

[jasoraso]

@jasoraso how do you tell if it's "very buoyant" I've got a Liquid Force fish, would you consider it very buoyant?

I don't know much about surfboards, but when I bought mine, I asked the salesman to steer me toward the most buoyant one they had

Looking on the web at the Liquid Force fish - I see they have 3 sizes - and the recommended weight goes up with each size. Do you have largest one?

Even though I weigh around 150#, I bought the biggest size available (so that others on the boat could use it too - I share the boat with my sister - and her husband comes in around 225#). In the picture above - between me and my daughter - we must be around 215#

 

[dan144k]

@jasoraso

I have an inland surfer red rocket. Do you know how it compares the red woody? Just curious. You so d pretty knowledgeable

 

[jasoraso]

I don't know - looking at their website - I'm not seeing the Red Woody - I think it was replaced by the Red Rocket. I purchased mine back in 2007 or 2008. They might even be the same board with different names - the website says the Red Rocket has been made for 15 years.

 

[redthumper9]

Cool thanks. I am using a Liquid Force Fish......bought the largest size (5' 6" I think) so that others could use it as well.

 

[waterboy]

I have a CWB board I bought from Overtons several years ago (yeah it's cheap but big and fast). All my girls (14, 19 and 21 yrs old) can surf ropeless without ballast. Yes we do use them as ballast on the rear deck and that is all. Speed is about 10-11 mph.

Yes the surf purist would say our wave is all washed out as in the picture above. But who cares... they have fun and that's all that matters. I have made a decision not to clog our boat and storage areas up with ballast bags. Again, no worries as I am OK with that.

Figure out the weight you need on the rear deck, work with your footwork, and it will likely work. At least for the lighter ones in your family.

 

[dan144k]

That red rocket just barely fits into the ski locker for storage.

 

[jasoraso]

I have a CWB board I bought from Overtons several years ago (yeah it's cheap but big and fast). All my girls (14, 19 and 21 yrs old) can surf ropeless without ballast. Yes we do use them as ballast on the rear deck and that is all. Speed is about 10-11 mph.

Yes the surf purist would say our wave is all washed out as in the picture above. But who cares... they have fun and that's all that matters. I have made a decision not to clog our boat and storage areas up with ballast bags. Again, no worries as I am OK with that.

Figure out the weight you need on the rear deck, work with your footwork, and it will likely work. At least for the lighter ones in your family.

When I do use the ballast bag, and I'm on a deeper lake (Utah lake is normally 15ft at its deepest, it is down 5+ feet this year), my wake gets a bit cleaner than the picture above. Not nearly as clean as the wake surf mod that has been developed by the gurus here, though.

 

[Thor]

That is incredibly helpful advice @jasoraso , thanks a million! Great idea surfing with your kids, I am going to try taking my 9 and 11 year old girls on the board with me this weekend. I assume you went of the stern and were not pulled up to do this. I saw @itsdgm start off the stern on his video (I never would have thought to do that) and is a heck of a lot easier for me.

My Koal longboard 5'6" will not fit in the locker so I am shopping for a wakesurf rack. Don't keep it on the bow while underway or it will whip through the boat at head height and sail out the back, go ahead and ask me how I know...

 

[jasoraso]

That is incredibly helpful advice @jasoraso , thanks a million! Great idea surfing with your kids, I am going to try taking my 9 and 11 year old girls on the board with me this weekend. I assume you went of the stern and were not pulled up to do this. I saw @itsdgm start off the stern on his video (I never would have thought to do that) and is a heck of a lot easier for me.

My Koal longboard 5'6" will not fit in the locker so I am shopping for a wakesurf rack. Don't keep it on the bow while underway or it will whip through the boat at head height and sail out the back, go ahead and ask me how I know...

In the picture, we had started from the stern. When she was younger, we did deep water starts - but now she is too big

 

[redthumper9]

Fyi......last evening we had a couple of people cancel, so there was not as much weight in the boat as I had hoped. Went with a wider stance and a slight left turn and was able to ALMOST go ropeless. I was literally holding the rope with 2 fingers. This was in 8 ft of water. I'm thinking with deeper water and a few hundred more pounds, it's a possibility!

 

[jcyamaharider]

OK, Ballast bags are going to be a must, and without the wake wedge a slight turn in the surf direction is going to be needed to clean up the wake to produce a little push. For smaller wakes a very buoyant board is going to be needed, just like everyone else said. Be careful, this surfing thing gets addicting and then you will start buying perfect pass, ballast bags, automated ballast system, Wake Wedge, and intermediate to pro level boards!!

 

[jetboater4life]

I've started going ropeless this year and I haven't changed the weight in my boat all that much. I use an inland surfer squirt and have a hyperlite landlock for beginners. I'm 190lb and have found that the key to surfing ropeless on any wake is weight distribution on the board. When surfing with less weight in the boat, my backfoot needs to be much farther forward on the board so I can get the board moving down the wake. The problem with this is that it becomes much harder to do tricks that far up on the board. The bigger the wake the further back on the board you can be and the easier it is to carve the wake.