What might be in store for 2023?

[meegwell]

I have limited history (first boat last season) just curious what the smart money would bet for 2023 models (Yamaha)? Larger than the 27 option? Just minor upgrades/color changes? Is there a typical cycle for "big" changes? You know...just planning my upgrade

 

[SCP1]

I think the 21’ will be updated as a 22’. The boat will mimic the 250 series to the 240’s. It will be deeper, have a head, and mounted WakeBooster’s on the hull similar to the 255’s. Also think the Supercharged motors may make the high end models.

 

[BlkGS]

My guess?

"Supply chain issues have resulted in a 10% price increase across the board.. Inventories are expected to be very limited, so get your non refundable deposits in to pay over MSRP now".

 

[Acard7]

My assumption… Nothing will change for 2023, except prices will still go up. Maybe minor details like paint and trim but nothing huge because the supply chain issues will continue for longer than we can fathom. I do agree with @SCP1 though, eventually the 21’ will become a 22’ for sure. And the idea of a head compartment would be a huge deal if they can make it happen! Makes you wonder if they will ever change the 19’ to 20’ ?

 

[BlkGS]

I suspect eventually they will size up every boat to the point thy they can introduce a "new, budget friendly starter boat" of 19'. They will probably eventually size up everything so they have a 19, 21, 23, 25, and 27, lol.

Honestly, yamaha would be smart to work on something like that seadoo pontoon. I would try to make it be something a bit larger than that, but I think that's gonna be a huge winner In the market.

 

[212s]

My assumption… Nothing will change for 2023, except prices will still go up. Maybe minor details like paint and trim but nothing huge because the supply chain issues will continue for longer than we can fathom.

I tend to agree...unless their design team was already in the process of making a change, likely no significant changes due to covid.

I do agree with @SCP1 though, eventually the 21’ will become a 22’ for sure. And the idea of a head compartment would be a huge deal if they can make it happen!

I don't know...the 21' had a slight hull change in 2018 to widen it an inch and soften the lifting strakes, so it may not be due just yet. What if they instead plan to introduce a 23' to fill in the gap?

Makes you wonder if they will ever change the 19’ to 20’ ?

In 2018 the 19ft models got new hulls 3" longer and 2" wider so they're probably not due for a change yet. And if they keep the 21ft as is, I can't see them pushing the 19ft bigger again unless they add a 16-17ft model. For 2020 they added the 195s luxury model, and then the FSH series. There's been lots more choice added to keep their brand strong.

 

[SCP1]

My assumption… Nothing will change for 2023, except prices will still go up. Maybe minor details like paint and trim but nothing huge because the supply chain issues will continue for longer than we can fathom. I do agree with @SCP1 though, eventually the 21’ will become a 22’ for sure. And the idea of a head compartment would be a huge deal if they can make it happen! Makes you wonder if they will ever change the 19’ to 20’ ?

I don’t think the 19’ will grow as they already made this bigger in 2019. I could see them leaving the 21’ alone and making a 23’.

 

[SCP1]

I tend to agree...unless their design team was already in the process of making a change, likely no significant changes due to covid.

I don't know...the 21' had a slight hull change in 2018 to widen it an inch and soften the lifting strakes, so it may not be due just yet. What if they instead plan to introduce a 23' to fill in the gap?

In 2018 the 19ft models got new hulls 3" longer and 2" wider so they're probably not due for a change yet. And if they keep the 21ft as is, I can't see them pushing the 19ft bigger again unless they add a 16-17ft model. For 2020 they added the 195s luxury model, and then the FSH series. There's been lots more choice added to keep their brand strong.

The 21’ boats were redesigned in 2017 and the 19’ boats were redesigned in 2019.

 

[HangOutdoors]

What would be really nice is if they either put the 1.8's in the FSH 210 or made a 22'FSH and put the 1.8's in it.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

Pretty strong rumors on the 21 going to 22. I doubt this happens until supply chain issues are fixed. Could be 2023, 24 or 25.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

What would be really nice is if they either put the 1.8's in the FSH 210 or made a 22'FSH and put the 1.8's in it.

I asked Yamaha about that one time. The CSR explained to me that the reason they went with the TR-1’s was to keep the price point where it was, the same is true for the bow rider models.

In one of Will Owen’s vids he expressed some slight disappointment that the Sport model did not come with the 1.8 L engines, I can tell you running one of these boats at 5000’ in the summer that extra 140 HP (at sea level) would make a huge difference. On the flip side the TR-1’s are pretty thrifty on gas, with four people on board, a lot of gear, and full fuel I can easily get over 3 mpg, 6000 rpm @ 7.8 gph, at trolling speed the fuel burn is .9 gph.

I’m sure Yamaha has done a lot of research into demographics and such to develop these boats for the largest target audience for the FSH series, as with all of their boats. Value per dollar it’s very hard to beat Yamaha. Price increases? Of course, with real inflation in the high teens to low twenty percent range for products across the board of course the prices will go up.

 

[DogDadDave]

Delivery of all the 2022 reservations/orders that are still outstanding for 8-10% more money?

I'm just hoping my boat is a 2022 and not a 2023 at this point.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

I have a deposit down on a 22 right now, I really wish it had larger engines. Coming from a speedster 200, I was looking for a more versatile boat and one that hopefully handles better. The speedster really doesn't like chop even, the trim tabs really helped but takes a good 5-10 mph off the top end.

 

[Dbrockman2]

Be nice if they brought the 27 down to a trailerable beam and included a trailer for the same MSRP and made a 29 x 9. I’d love to get a 275SD but extra for the trailer kinda pushes the wife over the limit. ??‍

 

[biffdotorg]

Honestly, yamaha would be smart to work on something like that seadoo pontoon. I would try to make it be something a bit larger than that, but I think that's gonna be a huge winner In the market.

The biggest difference in SeaDoo and Yamaha in that market, is Yamaha is an engine builder. And already owns the luxury pontoon market in our region. If you go onto any lake, the folks that want the quietest outboard, and most efficient four stroke already have a Yamaha mounted on their pontoon. Mercury following close behind.

Yamaha has no real need to make pontoons, when they get a healthy piece of that action already. And without the risk, as those supplier agreements are in place even if the boat MFG doesn't sell the boat. This is the same agreement they have with Arctic Cat/Textron for Snowmobile and SXS motors.

Coming out with their own pontoon may sour some very good relationships they already have. Yamaha is not known for Aluminum. Except for G3, and isn't Suncatcher pontoons are part of G3?

Home - SunCatcher Pontoons

 

[BlkGS]

The biggest difference in SeaDoo and Yamaha in that market, is Yamaha is an engine builder. And already owns the luxury pontoon market in our region. If you go onto any lake, the folks that want the quietest outboard, and most efficient four stroke already have a Yamaha mounted on their pontoon. Mercury following close behind.

Yamaha has no real need to make pontoons, when they get a healthy piece of that action already. And without the risk, as those supplier agreements are in place even if the boat MFG doesn't sell the boat. This is the same agreement they have with Arctic Cat/Textron for Snowmobile and SXS motors.

Coming out with their own pontoon may sour some very good relationships they already have. Yamaha is not known for Aluminum. Except for G3, and isn't Suncatcher pontoons are part of G3?

Home - SunCatcher Pontoons

On the flipside of that, a jet pontoon made or FRP type materials is a perfect step up/companion to the PWCs that Yamaha already sells. Yamaha can convert PWC buyers into boat buyers and sell their engine plus a boat, as opposed to losing it to seadoo entirely. Sure, they might go to a runabout style yammie, they might go to a pontoon with a yammie prop motor... But they'd be a more valuable customer if they went to a yammie deck boat.

I guess the difference in my eyes is I don't see people upgrading from a PWC to "any" pontoon. Especially those who now have kids will not want to mess with props, etc for their family boats. But they also may not find the 19 or 21 foot runabout spacious enough. Taking the yamaha jet powerplants and placing it in a deck boat or pontoon type craft makes a TON of sense.

 

[RNYCLV]

Delivery of all the 2022 reservations/orders that are still outstanding for 8-10% more money?

I'm just hoping my boat is a 2022 and not a 2023 at this point.

Feel you on that one, we were recently bumped from 22 to 23

 

[biffdotorg]

On the flipside of that, a jet pontoon made or FRP type materials is a perfect step up/companion to the PWCs that Yamaha already sells. Yamaha can convert PWC buyers into boat buyers and sell their engine plus a boat, as opposed to losing it to seadoo entirely. Sure, they might go to a runabout style yammie, they might go to a pontoon with a yammie prop motor... But they'd be a more valuable customer if they went to a yammie deck boat.

I guess the difference in my eyes is I don't see people upgrading from a PWC to "any" pontoon. Especially those who now have kids will not want to mess with props, etc for their family boats. But they also may not find the 19 or 21 foot runabout spacious enough. Taking the yamaha jet powerplants and placing it in a deck boat or pontoon type craft makes a TON of sense.

The age of the buyer has more to do with going from a PWC to a Pontoon. A younger buyer or PWC owner, will never look for the features an experienced boat owner is looking for. So it's a good stepping stone.

After owning multiple Waverunners, boats and now our 242LS, I could see myself buying a tritoon next. The only issue keeping from that, and pushing me towards a jet powered pontoon would be the shallow channel we have to navigate to get onto our lake.

But the prop value proposition is much greater than the supposed safety of a jet. I can say that easily that this "no prop feature" is blown way out of proportion by jet boat builders and owners. When we were growing up, you learned real quick, if the motor is running, you are not in the water. If you are swimming, diving, or climbing in, you avoided the prop. Easy enough. Don't be stupid. Yup, a few knocked their knees or head, but nobody died, like the marketing would make one believe.

On the flipside, I do love how an inboard, or jet drive frees up the stern for an entertaining space, and we miss it on the Yamaha powered tritoon on our dock to this day. So we both like the stern for different reasons. Would I replace a Yamaha powered tritoon for a Yamaha jet powered tritoon, hell no. We can putt putt all day long on half the fuel, and a fraction of the noise. And anyone buying a toon for those purposes (mind the generation gap) will not give up quiet rides for an open stern.

As per the other thread with the ecoboost powered jet toon, that's the ticket. A nice quiet turbocharged 6 cylinder giving me the shallow draft of the jet pump and the potential open stern space, without the noise of a Yamaha jet. That's way more ideal than anything Yamaha is putting out today. Yamaha could do this with their current motors, but they will have to identify their market before hand. If they want to build a seadoo killer, they could do it now. But if they want to compete with the Benningtons of the world, they better wrap the engine compartment with more kilmat than any of us have ever seen.

And don't get me wrong, I have no issues with the noise of our pair of 1.8ltr engines. But it is no replacement for a Yamaha outboard, or one of those ecoboost power plants.

You nailed it when you said the Seadoo toon is a stepping stone for the younger generation of boaters. As any experienced boater would never buy one. And thus the answer to so many folks questions about the SeaDoo. "why is it made so cheap, so small, no luxury features?" Because folks buying a boat for luxury cruising will never buy a plastic boat.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

The age of the buyer has more to do with going from a PWC to a Pontoon. A younger buyer or PWC owner, will never look for the features an experienced boat owner is looking for. So it's a good stepping stone.

After owning multiple Waverunners, boats and now our 242LS, I could see myself buying a tritoon next. The only issue keeping from that, and pushing me towards a jet powered pontoon would be the shallow channel we have to navigate to get onto our lake.

But the prop value proposition is much greater than the supposed safety of a jet. I can say that easily that this "no prop feature" is blown way out of proportion by jet boat builders and owners. When we were growing up, you learned real quick, if the motor is running, you are not in the water. If you are swimming, diving, or climbing in, you avoided the prop. Easy enough. Don't be stupid. Yup, a few knocked their knees or head, but nobody died, like the marketing would make one believe.

On the flipside, I do love how an inboard, or jet drive frees up the stern for an entertaining space, and we miss it on the Yamaha powered tritoon on our dock to this day. So we both like the stern for different reasons. Would I replace a Yamaha powered tritoon for a Yamaha jet powered tritoon, hell no. We can putt putt all day long on half the fuel, and a fraction of the noise. And anyone buying a toon for those purposes (mind the generation gap) will not give up quiet rides for an open stern.

As per the other thread with the ecoboost powered jet toon, that's the ticket. A nice quiet turbocharged 6 cylinder giving me the shallow draft of the jet pump and the potential open stern space, without the noise of a Yamaha jet. That's way more ideal than anything Yamaha is putting out today. Yamaha could do this with their current motors, but they will have to identify their market before hand. If they want to build a seadoo killer, they could do it now. But if they want to compete with the Benningtons of the world, they better wrap the engine compartment with more kilmat than any of us have ever seen.

And don't get me wrong, I have no issues with the noise of our pair of 1.8ltr engines. But it is no replacement for a Yamaha outboard, or one of those ecoboost power plants.

You nailed it when you said the Seadoo toon is a stepping stone for the younger generation of boaters. As any experienced boater would never buy one. And thus the answer to so many folks questions about the SeaDoo. "why is it made so cheap, so small, no luxury features?" Because folks buying a boat for luxury cruising will never buy a plastic boat.

I‘d like to add…. The main reason I went with the Yamaha jet powered boat was the clean out ports. There is likely no way I would own a jet boat that I would have to put on a mask and snorkel to clear the jet pump of grass, a plastic bag etc…in the shoulder seasons here the water is far too cold to get into without a dry suit. I’ve been out 6 times so far this season and the water temp on the first trip was 39*, the others have been 44*.

 

[biffdotorg]

I‘d like to add…. The main reason I went with the Yamaha jet powered boat was the clean out ports. There is likely no way I would own a jet boat that I would have to put on a mask and snorkel to clear the jet pump of grass, a plastic bag etc…in the shoulder seasons here the water is far too cold to get into without a dry suit. I’ve been out 6 times so far this season and the water temp on the first trip was 39*, the others have been 44*.

Ahh the days of our SeaDoo X20 and those cold dips in may to push the weeds out of the grate. I got so good at doing that with my toes, would have sworn I was a monkey! I avoided going under water as much as possible when it was cold.

The ironic thing about our Yamaha. I would say in four seasons, I have maybe pulled the plugs just a few times. The yamaha pumps seem to stay clean much more. Not sure. Maybe our boating conditions have just gotten better. I do know that on a warm day, I will still jump in and push weeds out with my "monkey toes" before taking the time to pull a clean out port. As I know most of the weeds are stuck on the outside of the grate.

I bet the cleanouts would be more productive if we pushed weeds through the clean out, rather than try to pull them up through.