Why A New Forum? My Explanation....others will add their stories

[Julian]

I've been asked to explain in a non-emmotional and straight forward manner why I joined with a group to form this forum. So here is what happened:

First a little history of me in case you don't know-I was a founding member of Yamahajetboaters.com AKA- YJB, major contributor of content, and put YJB's most comprehensive FAQ and Reference post together. I've tried over the years to calm many disputes, was a global moderator, and was instrumental in helping Brian avoid a takeover of the board when the former owner (and then still owner of the domain name) tried to sell it to a commercial venture. To say I was a staunch YJB advocate and supporter would be an understatement!

Sometime in early February 2014 Mel was banned from YJB, and a couple of days later he reached out to me to see if I could help him to get Brian to respond to him and explain why he was banned. I attempted to open communications via PMs on the board and Brian did not reply. He read the PM (as you can tell that), but didn't reply.

So I posted the following on the board on Thurs Feb 13th at 11:45PM:

Title: Mel's Locked out? Anyone else having trouble getting on?
Post Content: And no I don't mean trouble that requires viagra! LOL Anyone have trouble logging on ever? Mel can't access the board right now. Seems more like a permissions issue as he can see the board, just not any posts... I did a month or so ago from work.....just got 404 messages all the time.​

This post, which I thought was rather tame and non-confrontational was deleted-with no explanation.
I tried a similar approach on the Facebook page which was ignored (and then I think deleted).
I was STUNNED. Mel is our TOP poster! How can you just ban our top poster without ANY notice or communication????

So I reviewed Mel's posts and the only post I could find that might have triggered this was his last post (which has also been deleted--see a trend here?). This post was on a thread about the member map, and perhaps Mel or Bruce copied the text, but it said something like <my best recollection>:

Don't expect an integrated member map anytime soon as it isn't a priority, along with the logo and something else.​

So it seemed that Brian simply snapped at the mention of the map and/or logo and summarily banned Mel and refuses to communicate with anyone. Since then he's covered his trail by deleting all the posts.

So that got me to wondering what on earth was going on! So I began PMing and emailing my friends and other members on the board to see if they had any insight into what was happening. And I began to find out some rather disturbing things. That this wasn't the first person Brian has banned, and that the circumstances of those prior bans was also morally questionable or down right ruthless.

It was then that I decided I wasn't posting on YJB until I understood what was going on behind the scenes. I'll let those that have their story post them in reply to this. But suffice to say, I became more and more distraught with the behavior I was supporting. I began reaching out to other members to see if I was the only one in the dark that didn't know what Brian was up to, and found 3 camps

1. those as ignorant as I was who didn't want to stir up trouble and supported Brian
2. those that knew what he was doing and were going along with it
3. those that were aghast at his behavior and had already stopped posting or had backed off significantly

The result of my reaching out to these members was that some in category #1 or 2 above told Brian I was asking probing questions and Brian banned me.

Banning me only further concreted my decision to start this site. You can read the "Pledge" we wrote that was one of the first things Bruce, Mel and I discussed - and get a sense of our purpose in kicking this off. But that quickly grew and morphed into making a better forum. I hadn't really thought about the fact that YJB was running on old software and hadn't been really updated with new features in YEARS. So the more we worked, the more cool stuff we added. And here we are.....

I hope that @txav8r @octavio3311 , @fairpilot , @DCB-270 @Bruce and others will post their factual accounts of their treatment so those who were/are like me (blissfully ignorant of what was actually happening) can have a glimpse at the real story.

And one last thing. Bruce and I had a phone call with Brian were he admitted that his treatment of me, Mel and DCB was totally inappropriate and un-called for, and he apologized to me on the phone and said that he would post an apology to Mel and DCB once he brought the site back online, which he admitted was down because there were so many angry posts he was having to handle. He also asked me if I would retract my request to delete all my content, and I conditionally agreed if he allowed members to cross post our URL-which he agreed to - but still deletes.

I'm sorry this is so long, but it was the only way to convey the complete Saga.

The fact that 87% of the top 20 posters are now members here says a lot.....you can decide for yourself what that means.

 

[octavio3311]

Here's my story! I'm just gonna copy and paste from my other thread.

"I bought some stuff from the YJB store. My CC was charged immediately. 3 weeks goes by, and nothing. So I call Brian. You know what that #^$% tells me?
"I misquoted you the shipping costs. Maybe if you contribute/donate, I can process them sooner. Cause right now I'm processing orders for contributing members." Yep - that's what the SOB tells me. So I expressed my displeasure, got off the phone, donated $25, and received my stuff 3 days later. Man - I was PISSED - but the worst part was not being able to say a word about it, cause the posts would've been deleted and I would've been banned."

Yeah I know this is difficult to believe. I would have trouble believing it myself. I've only told 4 people - 1) if I posted about it, it would've been deleted (I've had many question posts deleted) & 2) who's gonna believe me - noone. I told @TechRider and @EvilSports over the phone. I mentioned it to Will (JetBoatPilot) - he wasn't surprised. And I mentioned to Andy (G&R Marines Yamaha GURU). I couldn't inform anyone else. I really wish our conversation went down thru emails - then I would've had those emails as my proof. But nope - it was all over the phone.

I was f'in pissed. I learned my lesson and have since purchased everything thru Will.
As I said before - I have NO PROBLEM with contributions and donations. I donated in 2012, was strongarmed into donating in 2013 - but after that fiasco, had no intentions to ever donate again.

 

[Bruce]

Here is my story.

I own and operate a number of servers for my business. When I saw requests for donations on YJB I wanted to give back and offered to host the forum at my cost initially in June of 2012 and have repeated the offer to Brian since them. I did make small monetary contributions to Brian for the operation of the forum and was a member of the 2012 and 2013 Contributor groups.

I first became aware of the tension in the YJB community and the extreme control exercised by Brian when I bought one of Mel's anchors. After receiving the anchor I posted a thank you to Mel. I appreciated what he had done for me and thought that it was right to thank him. The responses to my Thank You post shocked me. Brian was very negative about Mel's anchor sales. I soon realized that Brian wanted to tax all product sales through the forum. This was my awakening to the fact that YJB was not a donation supported forum but a commercial forum operated for Brian's profit and that all of us were contributing to it not only through monetary donations but also through the many hours of time we spent improving his forum.

After that experience I found myself including the following in an email in Sept of 2013,

"One story that motivates me is xxx xxxxxxx. He is local to me. He signed up and posted pictures of his AR210 with graphics earlier this year. He taught us to wake surf a few weeks back. He has done a lot of work on his boat and he and his wife are going rope less with two 350 pound bags. They are great examples of what can be achieved with our boats. He mentioned the forum when we were surfing. He was very negative about his experience on the forum. It looks like he deleted all of his posts and his account. He is very active on facebook and could have been a great contributor.

I would see a new forum as a place for members to share experiences and learn from each other. Howto type documentation would be strongly encouraged. There would be no need or request for donations. There would be no advertising. I think we should have a vendors area of the forum where vendors could post about their products. Vendors commercial posts should be limited to that vendor area. I think we should have links to Brians store along with other vendors. This is not an anti Brian forum. The forum would not be my forum, it would be all the members forum and I would hope it would continue on if I lose interest in the future.

Uploading pictures would be easier. Apps would be available for Android and iOS. All the new forum features would be available and the forum would stay up to date with current technology.".

Later in October of 2013 when YJB had a several day outage I emailed Brian and offered to help get the forum back online. He replied that the site was down because he was upgrading the store and that he would like to talk to me when he got caught up.

In February 2014, when a PerfectPass Group Buy was suggested I contacted other members who were interested via PM and started a group email to discuss the possibility offline. I knew that PerfectPass does not want to see discounted prices documented online in the rare instance of their product being discounted. I contacted PerfectPass and over about a week was able to convince them to offer a small discount through Brian's store. While I was in discussions with PerfectPass I was also having what I felt were reasonable PM discussions with Brian. Then one morning my account on YJB stopped working. When I looked at my account details I saw that I was now a member of the 2012 Contributor, 2013 Contributor and Restricted Access groups.

Brian's last communication with me before turning off my account included
"I'm not going to contact PerfectPass to ask about any discounts or anything. I've badgered them for years (even as recently as a month ago) and I know exactly what they would say to me. I don't know of any distributors that will offer $100 and if anyone could show me of one that would but I would love to see it just out of curiosity. Do you know of a specific one? If there is one, I might be able to organize a group buy thru them instead of thru PerfectPass. I have had several say that they found many dealers that advertise it for less but every single one was referring to the single engine version and the dealers were clueless that Yamahas even had twin engines. The single engine version is $1195.00 (which I still haven't got around to listing).

I wouldn't be surprised is PerfectPass were to offer you a discount if you were able to organize a group buy because I have seen it with SeaDek and several other manufacturers. (it's just less likely with PP)........."

That was in response to my earlier message of
"Brian, would you mind giving me a week to figure out what is possible and then I will get back to you with the details?

I may hear from PP that they will not offer anything. But I think they are more likely to offer a discount to a non dealer than to a current dealer. Or my pushing may cause them to contact you with an offer.

I think that the more people that contact PP the less likely that they will do something."

After I called Brian to tell him PerfectPass agreed to the group buy Brian reactivated my account. We had a long discussion about the commercial nature of YJB. Although I was disheartened I planned to continue participating in YJB.

Then I received emails from several YJB members saying that Brian had treated many members the same way and was continuing to do so.

I want to enjoy our community, so I have decided to invest what I would have in YJB into a new home for our community and I hope you will join us.

 

[Evil Sports]

Im not gonna piss all over the place about this. I will only say I was banned for having the Jet boat Fans facebook page. Once I was banned I opened Jetboatfans.com out so spite but never really had the time to make it work. With the Nazi lock down on YJB and too many people drinking the cool aid I just left it alone. I am SO happy this has finally risen to the surface but will say we need to focus on the positives this site can become and leave the negative of other sites behind. I know there are people that need to voice their displeasures so they can get some closure and move on, but we need to realise we have a outstanding opportunity Right Here and focus on that.

 

[Detonate]

So glad to see that this thread exists. Should definitely be sticky and a basic required reading during registration...

I think the majority of people fall into the 'ignorant of Brian's actions.' camp. There is never any indication to people that posts have been deleted, or even worse modified by Brian.

The more you try and help him, and do more for the community members, the more he think you are trying to 'steal' YJB from him. Disturbing paranoia from that dude...

 

[Detonate]

.........but will say we need to focus on the positives this site can become and leave the negative of other sites behind.

Totally agree... My real concern is that there is a number of really cool people that are completely in the dark about what was going on, and now have the opinion that current staff here are doing things out of spite. Which is NOT true. They doing it with all of the best intentions of furthering the community!!

Something I truly appreciate and applaud...

 

[txav8r]

Much of what Bruce and Julian have added, I don't want to duplicate again. It is all true, but the exact wording or timing may be vary a tad from my perspective. But banned I was. And totally ignored as to why. I did get a phone call of apology from Brian last Sunday night, that was only to say he banned me because I allegedly called him a tyrant to members privately. He confirmed that he viewed it as a mutiny, and that is what you do to prevent it. The thing is, I was banned for being dissatisfied with the management and treatment of member concerns and desires. The "mutiny", more of a "let's build a free place", didn't happen until it became public knowledge that the other site was run in a singular and controlling fashion. I don't remember using words like tyrant...but I do remember using words like "dictator". And I don't think saying that a website is run like a dictatorship, or that it has no checks and balances is a bad thing to say. It certainly doesn't justify banning someone because they want to see some balance and member benefit. I am over it, I am here, and I am not going back. This site is now known and anyone having PM'ed me over there can find me here. I don't even want to go back to that site. To clarify, until I talked to Brian Sunday night, I thought the reason I was banned was my comment..."the member map, like the logo, is not a yjb priority". Brian read your private messages on YJB. And as a private message, I assume it is private. If I mention to another member my view of how things are done in private, I expect it to stay in private. I never solicited a revolt or overthrow. But I did complain among my friends. There is a good deal of bating and seeding that went on over there. There are some disturbing membership encouragement too. These things are factual and correct IMO, and I was forced to leave. I thank all of you for helping a place to grow that is free of all of that control and manipulation. I gave money to Brian both personally, as well as to "his" forum (because he literally thought of it as his, not ours) and the yjbstore via purchases. I donated my time, an anchor, and dedication to the members there. I did so for my own pleasure and entertainment as well as to see the owners of these great boats gain the knowledge that the same membership had helped me to acquire. I am grateful to have a place where Liberty and Freedom ring true, and managed with the idea that it is "of the member, for the member, by the member". Too corny? I don't think so and I hope you agree, that a place where you are free to your opinion and take an active role in shaping the community, rather than being manipulated, are attributes you want to have in your forum. I am working through this myself, and attempting to stop with any comments regarding the other site or ownership of it...but the membership, well...we are still here, just a new name!

 

[Evil Sports]

Any time you try to share your bad experience about a situation with people that are happy with the situation you come off as a hater. Thats why its best if we totally Refrain from any mention of the other site. I personally dont want to be known as a hater no matter what happened to me, it goes against everything I do on a daily basis.

 

[DCB-270]

I started to post a vicious response on the other site because I am suddenly unbanned after several years. Go figure. Then I thought why bother, It will just get edited or deleted. And don't say any thing on private messages over there because he reads them.

I considered myself Brians friend from the start. I was with the site when he got it from Jeff. And happy for him.

We have had a group of boaters meeting at Texoma for a long time. Mark, Jim and us first started meeting on the Islands. Brians boat didn't run and some very gracious people brought Him and Gretchen along. I learned a little from working on my own boats so I offered to rebuild Brians motors so he could take his own boat to the Texoma meet. I drove to Dallas (3 1/2 hrs one way) twice to work on his boat. Once for tear down the other for rebuild. We also took them to the lake twice on our dime, donated to the site and sent him cash several times.
After going to the lake we always had a party on Fri nights and most times Sat at our RENTED trailer. (Someone said we tried to act like we owned it). Brian wanted to do a party so we agreed we would have Fri and they would have Sat. They didn't like having Sat and wanted Fri.

At this point our group was getting too big for just one resort so Mel found Mill Creek. I can understand the Texas people would rather stay on their side of the lake. A lot shorter drive and much closer to the Islands. Brian Invited a select group of people before posting it on his site and never said a word to us. They planned their own parties and we did the same. I just thought we were having growing pains. On Sat at the lake Gretchen jumps my wife and then me claiming we were trying to get "his" people to come to our party. I denied it time after time and still deny it today I NEVER INVITED ANYONE OF "BRIANS" PEOPLE TO OUR PARTYY. Now if someone asked if we were having a party and they could come I said sure. I also found out later that another person on our side of the lake was indeed inviting people. But SO WHAT! It's a free world, well I guess it's not free if Brian is involved. I heard from others that knew him at the time and confirmed this story. They wanted to be the only game in town. The next year he move the meet to another lake.

So I guess I was banned for having a long established party at Texoma. I thought we had a good time.

Not one word from him by phone or private message, just turn the computer on and it says YOU ARE PERMANTLY BANNED.

I am not interested in YJB one bit. I am happy to have this site and talk boats. Thanks for all the hard work guys.

 

[fairpilot]

My Story
I am truly stunned. I was never banned but left on my own free will. Some of the people banned is shocking,(mel) I thought you and Brian were close. I hated that I had a store long before brian even thought of it, I helped him and told him how to do it then he starts selling the exact same thing i did. I had another member in Fl that was an insurance agent the use to buy product from me, he would mention me to clients, then he moved to Texas and right in brians back yard ( i did not know it), I guess he told Brian what he was doing and Brian flipped a lid on me accusing me of stealing from his territory it got real crazy. ok found the crazy psycho letter I got. He was so far wrong on his facts
Actualy PM From Brian:
You have got to fucking be kidding me. Your last response was how you hope we can find a way for this to work out since we are "friends" and now I find out that your all set up to distribute your shit thru a fucking insurance agent a mere 2 miles from my house....you can Fuck Off. How fucking dumb do you think I am. I've been a real fucking cool guy to you and I have been the catalyst to your business and you go off and do this...well you done fucked up.

I have re-removed your Advertisements from your profile and your signature and you go right on ahead and re-add them and I'll ban your fucking ass so fast you wont have a chance to read another pm from me.

For the record, your not the only one I'm removing this week but this was just way too damn far and I'm done making exceptions for people who never help me out.

Sincerely!
Brian

My Response
Whoa dude that is a tad bit strong , first who are you talking about in your backyard if it is woosab (Justin) in Dallas he is not becoming a dealer. If you mean Karen I have not made any commitment to her and plus I really don't know where the he'll you live Texas is a big damn state bro you could be 500 or more miles from her.
I did not mean to get you that pissed plus as you said I hope we can work it out which you never said a word back .
If you want my true feelings on the matter I spent a lot of time and money building this business and showing,and explaining to members how good these products are for 2 years I did this on a site that is suppose to help members then you decide you going to start a store and sell EXACTLY what is sell that is what I think is wrong. Millions of boating items to sell and you took the two products I sell and sell them. Just my thoughts and did it all without the F word

So for all you guys tha think Brian is the angel, I hope these stories give you a better picture of how things have gone. The truth hurts.

 

[jawsf16]

So I have donated to Brian a couple times. I got to witness the great Texoma party incident that Dan speaks of, from the texas side. Brian freaked out that there were tow parties, I thought it was no big deal. It was then I began to see past the awesome forum.

Fast forwarda. Couple of years and I see Dan out on texoma only to find out he was banned. I thought for sure he had sold his boat and moved on. Then I found out Mel was repeatedly banned. Now I am getting confused. Then I found out that posts are routinely deleted and edited. Concern is growing. Then we have a meet at Texoma that is kind of private and not in line with the King's official meet weekend. Turns out there was no official meet. At that meet I get several back stories from members.

Then Bruce contacts me about a perfect pass group buy and I am excited. He does all the leg work and it ends up in the YJB store. Interesting. Then Mel and Bruce and Julian invite me on to this new board. By then I have had enough. Now I read all of the stories here and it enrages me that he is mooching off of everyone and dictating everything on there.

I tried to,post something about the new site and the fact that it was run by donations and my post was edited. Edited with no comments mind you. That is it for me. Changing words of mine is unacceptable without some amplifying data. Steve then tells me that everyone was banned for good reason and martyrs Brian for a bit.

So I have some questions...
1. Is there a way to delete every post that any of us have made?
2. I did go delete every image I have on albums and in the posting section, can we all do that?

It irks me that he has 3000 of my posts, 13000 of Mel's and countless others....

And I do agree it is time to move on, but I also think it is okay to have an "airing of the grievances" perhaps followed by some "feats of strength". Happy Festivus!

 

[jetboater4life]

I don't think we should delete posts. It's just going to incite more hard feelings. I think airing grievances is enough and then looking forward should be the direction.

 

[jawsf16]

@jetboater4life sometimes the high road is tough to climb, but you are right. I still deleted all my photos. Gonna spend my time and efforts here.

 

[DCB-270]

So I have donated to Brian a couple times. I got to witness the great Texoma party incident that Dan speaks of, from the texas side. Brian freaked out that there were tow parties, I thought it was no big deal. It was then I began to see past the awesome forum.

Fast forwarda. Couple of years and I see Dan out on texoma only to find out he was banned. I thought for sure he had sold his boat and moved on. Then I found out Mel was repeatedly banned. Now I am getting confused. Then I found out that posts are routinely deleted and edited. Concern is growing. Then we have a meet at Texoma that is kind of private and not in line with the King's official meet weekend. Turns out there was no official meet. At that meet I get several back stories from members.

Then Bruce contacts me about a perfect pass group buy and I am excited. He does all the leg work and it ends up in the YJB store. Interesting. Then Mel and Bruce and Julian invite me on to this new board. By then I have had enough. Now I read all of the stories here and it enrages me that he is mooching off of everyone and dictating everything on there.

I tried to,post something about the new site and the fact that it was run by donations and my post was edited. Edited with no comments mind you. That is it for me. Changing words of mine is unacceptable without some amplifying data. Steve then tells me that everyone was banned for good reason and martyrs Brian for a bit.

So I have some questions...
1. Is there a way to delete every post that any of us have made?
2. I did go delete every image I have on albums and in the posting section, can we all do that?

It irks me that he has 3000 of my posts, 13000 of Mel's and countless others....

And I do agree it is time to move on, but I also think it is okay to have an "airing of the grievances" perhaps followed by some "feats of strength". Happy Festivus!

We have become very distant. Not knowing who is on what side.

 

[txav8r]

I will be asking Brian to delete my entire content. And if it doesn't happen, I have already asked my attorney to draft a letter. It is my content. I was restricted from following it or answering posts. I was promised an apology and cross linking from the forums...instead, more misdirection and attempt to control the outcome. And continued defense that I had somehow done something wrong. You can't say your sorry and then give excuses. It was wrong, it is still wrong, and that place needs governance and a BUNCH of it. One man making all decisions without guidance has many names. And you can figure out what that might be without me helping you. While it may seem weak or cheap that we would delete our content or ask that it be deleted...what say you to having your content meaning changed? It has happened many times. And of course it is denied. You just have to ask yourself a few times, did I write that? After the second or third time, knowing you didn't, then it all starts to make sense. Isn't it a federal crime to tamper with the mail? So what is it if you read PRIVATE PM's in someones box? There is no harm in controlling your own content. And as a contributor of the content, why should anyone be upset if I take my content and go? Is it ok to ban me and leave my content intact, with exception of deleting any incriminating content and changing other content to take the edge off? Not hardly.

 

[DCB-270]

I wish you had a little passion Mel.

 

[txav8r]

Been working for 4 days straight Dan...it takes the passion out of me! Glad to be back on the forum right here at Jetboaters.Net!

 

[DCB-270]

It's passion like yours that we have this great site to go.

 

[OCMD]

Mel you need to buy a boat. Take out the crowbar on that ol' rusty wallet, work it open, and get it done. If you go used and buy another 08 SX230, I have this great box anchor some guy on that other forum made for me. I'll sell it to you for 200 bucks! As for this thread? It needs to stay permanently placed on top, as folks need a place to vent. Venting helps cleanse, and helps one to move on.

 

[Magic]

Been working for 4 days straight Dan...it takes the passion out of me! Glad to be back on the forum right here at Jetboaters.Net!

Really love the 4 day trips........ (not) I pretty much just stare at the wall my first day off after a 4-day.... Welcome home Mel!