Thrust Vector Wake Update: Deflector Lock Torture Testing

[octavio3311]

I hope you can understand. I made the mistake of warning him about the birds beak that I was certain it would fail and obviously he has spent a lot of time redesigning that part , so this should confirm my sincere concerns on that part.
I see other things but I will refrain from pointing those out. Just remember when it comes to making steering that works properly in all conditions messing with the design to get it to do something it was never intended to do is most likely going to have it's down side.
Sorry that I care about this and you can be assured My focus is in the best interest of the consumer.
Go back and pay close attention to the original description of the benefits this was intended to provide and see how this changed from a surf able wake being provided to just cleaning up the water spray.
Pre sales were being taken based on the original description, my concern was for the consumer but now I will wait for these to hit the water and see if I am correct.
Remember I hear from a lot of people who don't say a word on the web sites as well as the ones that do. There are non steering ways to fix the spray.
Example, pump wedges were made to change the angle of the jet wash . Adding a 20 foot piece to the tow rope is the standard way to deal with towing tubes etc , inexpensive and very effective.
I have a feeling that this just may become the EDSEL of the jet boat steering I hope for your sakes I am incorrect but I have a lot of experience with steering designs and I have serious reservations on this design .
Proper steering is a serious thing and any compromise in an attempt to get a non steering effect is ill advised . This is my honest opinion .

Let’s put it this way - focus on your shit. And stop trampling on every single post about Will’s products. He doesn’t interfere or comment on your posts - so why can’t you pay him the same respect?
I’ve said this for years now - you make a great product, but I will always buy from Will.

 

[fireflymedic]

I am new here and new to boats. But I've noticed that seems to me IMO that you have a lot of negativity towards this company/person. Jealousy is an ugly thing if that's what it is. If I've taken this the wrong way, then correct me.

Because you said you were new I want to make sure you know how easy it is to block someone so you never see there posts. Just click on their name and click ignore. If ignored content is in a thread you're reading it will give option to see it. Very useful option IMHO

 

[SCP1]

I have never seen photos or videos showing this product will not clean the wave on 19’. If it works on the twins I would suspect it would work better on a single or am I missing something? As you still get jet wash unless you are turning.

 

[jEt_jAk]

I have never seen photos or videos showing this product will not clean the wave on 19’. If it works on the twins I would suspect it would work better on a single or am I missing something? As you still get jet wash unless you are turning.

I remember Will mentioning in another thread that only the tube setting does anything on single engine boats but I cannot find exactly where that was, nor do I know exactly why that is...

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Because you said you were new I want to make sure you know how easy it is to block someone so you never see there posts. Just click on their name and click ignore. If ignored content is in a thread you're reading it will give option to see it. Very useful option IMHO

Yes I use it myself. I have a dozen people on it.
So being new as you said just be careful of the games that go on here and other sites. I refuse to have other people post things for me.
If I have something to offer I put my name on it. Even though I know the normal M. O. goes like this, when I post something that a certain person or persons will obviously not agree with, I wait for the attack, This is done to detract from the message I was conveying and hopefully alert other trolls to jump in.
I see time and time again this exact M O. however having been on this planed longer than most of the people here, I have learned that there is a very real silent majority and that is what really counts, they have the ability to analyze the information and form their own opinion with no regard to the trolls. They also have the ability to do their own research and see through the nonsense. So when you get some time you can do your homework if it is important to you and come to an educated decision or not! Just understand I began this quest to design and manufacture retrofit table jet boat steering in 2001 . So now at 66 I have no desire to become a slave to my steering.
I keep making steering systems because it's my baby and I want people to enjoy their time on the water with their family operating their jet boat with confidence and predictability so they can feel comfortable with family members operating it . I have been boating over 50 years, I built my first steering system back in 2001 for my own jet boat and went from hating my jet boat to absolutely loving it just by making it steer better that any boat I ever owned. My advice as always is never buy any steering before trying the boat as it comes from the factory, some people are naturals with jet boats using the forward neutral reverse mode can allow you to handle a jet boat in slow speed with precise control. For me I hated the jet boat feel and I wanted all the steering response and control I could get, even now I do a lot of fun stuff using my steering on my P W C's with steering on them. So don't get pushed into or pleasured to buy any system, my systems included until you know exactly what you need to improve and how to improve it.

 

[dadofral]

Thank you @IndySmittyYammi. We're here for people like you and @CAM212SS and every other boater on this board. All we're looking to do is to help people and to solve problems. Its worked well for us and we're proud of the way our products have served others! This one is going to be our best yet!

Glad to see you’re doing your homework and all the testing to make a great product. I can’t wait to get mine and try out the final product. My kids are excited for the tubing and wake surf features.

 

[DeadlyFrog]

I hope you can understand. I made the mistake of warning him about the birds beak that I was certain it would fail and obviously he has spent a lot of time redesigning that part , so this should confirm my sincere concerns on that part.
I see other things but I will refrain from pointing those out. Just remember when it comes to making steering that works properly in all conditions messing with the design to get it to do something it was never intended to do is most likely going to have it's down side.
Sorry that I care about this and you can be assured My focus is in the best interest of the consumer.
Go back and pay close attention to the original description of the benefits this was intended to provide and see how this changed from a surf able wake being provided to just cleaning up the water spray.
Pre sales were being taken based on the original description, my concern was for the consumer but now I will wait for these to hit the water and see if I am correct.
Remember I hear from a lot of people who don't say a word on the web sites as well as the ones that do. There are non steering ways to fix the spray.
Example, pump wedges were made to change the angle of the jet wash . Adding a 20 foot piece to the tow rope is the standard way to deal with towing tubes etc , inexpensive and very effective.
I have a feeling that this just may become the EDSEL of the jet boat steering I hope for your sakes I am incorrect but I have a lot of experience with steering designs and I have serious reservations on this design .
Proper steering is a serious thing and any compromise in an attempt to get a non steering effect is ill advised . This is

Dear administrators please add a douche bag icon to the ratings category!

 

[IndySmittyYammi]

Yes I use it myself. I have a dozen people on it.
So being new as you said just be careful of the games that go on here and other sites. I refuse to have other people post things for me.
If I have something to offer I put my name on it. Even though I know the normal M. O. goes like this, when I post something that a certain person or persons will obviously not agree with, I wait for the attack, This is done to detract from the message I was conveying and hopefully alert other trolls to jump in.
I see time and time again this exact M O. however having been on this planed longer than most of the people here, I have learned that there is a very real silent majority and that is what really counts, they have the ability to analyze the information and form their own opinion with no regard to the trolls. They also have the ability to do their own research and see through the nonsense. So when you get some time you can do your homework if it is important to you and come to an educated decision or not! Just understand I began this quest to design and manufacture retrofit table jet boat steering in 2001 . So now at 66 I have no desire to become a slave to my steering.
I keep making steering systems because it's my baby and I want people to enjoy their time on the water with their family operating their jet boat with confidence and predictability so they can feel comfortable with family members operating it . I have been boating over 50 years, I built my first steering system back in 2001 for my own jet boat and went from hating my jet boat to absolutely loving it just by making it steer better that any boat I ever owned. My advice as always is never buy any steering before trying the boat as it comes from the factory, some people are naturals with jet boats using the forward neutral reverse mode can allow you to handle a jet boat in slow speed with precise control. For me I hated the jet boat feel and I wanted all the steering response and control I could get, even now I do a lot of fun stuff using my steering on my P W C's with steering on them. So don't get pushed into or pleasured to buy any system, my systems included until you know exactly what you need to improve and how to improve it.

I guess it takes more than 66 years to develop maturity and professionalism. I hope you find whatever it is you’re looking for when you spew this crap.

For the rest of us that are excited about the evolution and potential of this product... it was the talk of the boat show yesterday among a group of Yamaha owners that had a little impromptu gathering around a dealer display. All 6 of us owners were planning to add the WakeBooster as soon as it’s available. I was the only 1 not currently running fins of any kind, so it looks like I’ll be the tester of the TVW + WakeBooster come spring.

 

[swatski]

Dear administrators please add a douche bag icon to the ratings category!

Be careful what you wish for, lol.

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[swatski]

I guess it takes more than 66 years to develop maturity and professionalism. I hope you find whatever it is you’re looking for when you spew this crap.

Yep. Those posts are really a puzzle.
I don't know all the history between the two vendors (I do know enough to understand the grudge...) but I agree with you completely this is not the place to act on it...

For the rest of us that are excited about the evolution and potential of this product... it was the talk of the boat show yesterday among a group of Yamaha owners that had a little impromptu gathering around a dealer display. All 6 of us owners were planning to add the WakeBooster as soon as it’s available. I was the only 1 not currently running fins of any kind, so it looks like I’ll be the tester of the TVW + WakeBooster come spring.

My issue with that is the following.

I'm interested in enhancing my wake sports experience but I have limited time to follow on various things and new developments. So, I come here in hopes this place will provide me with unbiased, no bs, information to lead me out of the weeds.

Regarding the Yamaha WakeBooster, it is begining to look hyped up to me... A year into it's marketing it is still not available. Why? There should be plenty of real world testing available by now. At this point I suspect it maybe more like Yamaha SurfPoint. Not holding my breath.

As far as the TVW... we have been told those are coming for months and months, expecting the big reveal of a revolutionary wake mod. Well, nothing wrong with a good teasing I suppose, but based on what I have seen so far - I no longer view those as a genuine “surf wake" mod. I hope it's okay to say that here.

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[MidnightRider]

I guess it takes more than 66 years to develop maturity and professionalism. I hope you find whatever it is you’re looking for when you spew this crap.

Yeah like many here I'm annoyed by what seems to be unconstructive, grudge induced, passive aggressive comments. I've realized that this is not going away and the beneficial knowledge outweighs the unconstructive dribble. My take on the above, lets just ignore those small comments to avoid it turning into a book.

Regarding the Yamaha WakeBooster, it is begining to look hyped up to me... A year into it's marketing it is still not available. Why? There should be plenty of real world testing available by now. At this point I suspect it maybe more like Yamaha SurfPoint. Not holding my breath.

I tend to agree with you on most of your opinion on these wake creation tools, primarily because of the proof you've provided in videos of your Gatlin Wedge/swim deck bag setup. I don't think there is any question that the gatlin wedge and swim deck bag are the reigning champion on creating a stellar wake with these boats. I'm bit more optimistic than you though with these new comers. I was very skeptical of the WakeBooster before I saw the boattest.com video review of it and watched a obviously novice surfer (Steve Larivee) surf with relative ease. Was there camera tricks and cutaways that helped that? Maybe, but there was enough there to convince me that this is a viable product. Will it create large optimal wake the wedge and custom bag will, no, for sure not, but it will be much more convenient to install, remove, switch sides - especially for a boat fully mixed side surfers. We are all novice surfers on my boat so at this point if it produces a surfable wave at all, the convenience outweighs the quality of the wave for me personally. I hope I'm right.

As far as the TVWs, I'll reserve most of my opinion for more reviews but it seems that it will clean up the wake. No way it will be a stand alone solution and I don't think Will has claimed that. It may at best be a alternative to the Gatlin Wedge but will still need just as much ballast as the Gatlin Wedge requires, and unlike the Gatlin Wedge, as of yet, it is unproven. So its less interesting to me cause at this point I have hope to not deal with switching a swim deck bag back and forth. Also I'm 100% sold on always down fins so this is not a solution that would work for me. I do still think this may be a winner for others with different needs, wants, and setups. We will see.

 

[IndySmittyYammi]

Regarding the Yamaha WakeBooster, it is begining to look hyped up to me... A year into it's marketing it is still not available. Why? There should be plenty of real world testing available by now. At this point I suspect it maybe more like Yamaha SurfPoint. Not holding my breath.

I had the exact same thought. My dealer truly believes what he’s being told by Yamaha, which is that they only made a very small number of these things at first. The demand then surprised them, so they’re working on mass producing them at the quality expected from Yamaha.

Either way, I totally agree with MidnightRider. The ease of use is more than worth giving this thing a shot. I also agree that the Boattest.com video was good enough for me to be first in line to give it a try. I’m in the “why not?” Category. If I can avoid the wake wedge, then great. If I can’t, then I return the other stuff and go with the wake wedge.

 

[swatski]

I had the exact same thought. My dealer truly believes what he’s being told by Yamaha, which is that they only made a very small number of these things at first. The demand then surprised them, so they’re working on mass producing them at the quality expected from Yamaha.

Either way, I totally agree with MidnightRider. The ease of use is more than worth giving this thing a shot. I also agree that the Boattest.com video was good enough for me to be first in line to give it a try. I’m in the “why not?” Category. If I can avoid the wake wedge, then great. If I can’t, then I return the other stuff and go with the wake wedge.

The more testing, the better!
The Wedge's proven hard to beat in spite of many attempts and ideas, and I tried, too. It's basically unchanged, too, from the originally version which I find kind of remarkable. The bag - same thing, it seems to place the weight in just the exactly right spot... But hey, the Gatlin boys are from the "Showme" state afterall. LOL.

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[NORCAL-GAS]

I think Jeff and Will are both great guys. And I will continue to support both. Ripping on anyone or their posts here makes only you look douche-y. No need to hand out the icon.

I don’t speak for anyone, but doesn’t seem like Jeff was even giving Will the finger here, just asking, all that for spray?

It’s the trolls here making things bigger than they are. Jeff and Will are big boys, leave them alone, they can handle their own hurt feelings. I purchase from both and support both because they both innovate. I choose to not block anyone because I could learn something from everyone.

Calling people out on their intentions and claims for product design shouldn’t be taken as abrasive. It should be seen as an opportunity to give more product info, bring more attention to the product, and more opportunities for improvement.

 

[tabbibus]

I'm mostly interested in the tubing option. I keep reading about how bad the spray is for tubers! I guess I'll have to wait and see

 

[NORCAL-GAS]

My spray was solved by the booster ball. It really made the difference between eyes closed and face down on the tube vs eyes open looking around.

 

[MidnightRider]

I think Jeff and Will are both great guys. And I will continue to support both. Ripping on anyone or their posts here makes only you look douche-y. No need to hand out the icon.

I don’t speak for anyone, but doesn’t seem like Jeff was even giving Will the finger here, just asking, all that for spray?

It’s the trolls here making things bigger than they are. Jeff and Will are big boys, leave them alone, they can handle their own hurt feelings. I purchase from both and support both because they both innovate. I choose to not block anyone because I could learn something from everyone.

Calling people out on their intentions and claims for product design shouldn’t be taken as abrasive. It should be seen as an opportunity to give more product info, bring more attention to the product, and more opportunities for improvement.

I agree with this. By taking offense on someone else's account you just add fuel to the fire. I will say though that the reaction you see here isn't on a single comment its on a long standing trend. So I do get why people are taking offense, just disagree that they should be.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Thanks to all of those that have posted encouraging comments. We try to stay out of any sort of conversation that does not answer a question or inform with new or clarifying information.

As for the Thrust Vector Wake and our R&D process, I want to thank those that have made comments about their concerns for its design and regardless of where those comments come from we listen. Also we're have a pretty capable design team here and I am sure that no product would ever make it to market without being fully thought through and tested with or without the comments.

I can assure you as the lead designer on this project the product will perform as advertised when they start hitting the water in late spring as promised. I am working every day with the Thrust Vector Wake and every day it is better than it was the day before.

We launched pre-sales of the product a little earlier than I normally would have liked to but we were in the midst of a recovery from losing most of the month of October due to Hurricane Michael and being forced out against our will by our landlord for the rest of October. The product had been proven well during the late fall months and we knew we had something great so in order to aid in our recovery we announced early. With bad weather and an unrelated injury to my test rider we've not been able to release video as quickly as I normally do. I plan to get some video of the tube setting and the dry ride component and hope to upload by the end of the week.

When Thrust Vector Wake ships it will provide a more surfable, cleaner surf wave and wakeboard wave, it will provide a drier ride for tubers and it will provide excellent steering responsiveness at slow speeds. It will come with our Limited Lifetime Warranty and we'll back it like we do all our other products. Thanks for being patient with us during this process!

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Thank you for the clarification !

 

[cbpagent72]

What about the Eagle Beaks? Those will be under tremendous pressure especially on the "surf side" if ballasted. The best surf wave, so far, has been with swim deck bag and the corner of the swim platform under water. Granted surf speeds are generally low 10-12mph but it is not uncommon to spike to 15-16mph or higher, before things settle down.

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They stated that the fins are designed to come up before 10 mph.