242X Ballast filling issue-short circuit?

[Glen]

Figured out (the hard way) that the ballast commands are only accepted through the joystick (not touch screen) on the 242X-

Got them filling for the first time today and was doing a calibration (drain completely, fill completely, hit save).

Half way through this (Port ballast filled), the ballast system stopped responding and will neither drain nor fill.

Getting into the system (hold sys button for 4 seconds) I found the the 3 pumps are indicating a Short Circuit (red).

What are my troubleshooting/recovery steps? Haven't found anything useful yet, on-line-

Any/all constructive input appreciated!

Thanks,
Glen
m/v Radiant Hope

The boat is still in the water and of course, listing to port.

 

[Bill D]

You could start by checking the supply wires for the pumps. I find it difficult to believe all 3 pumps have shorted at the same time. It looks like you go two to run for a bit before they quit?

 

[buckbuck]

Wait, listing to port? Take advantage of the situation and grab your surfboard!
Worst case you could pull a hose clamp off and let them drain to the bilge. Make that poor little pump work its heart out.

 

[Glen]

H

Wait, listing to port? Take advantage of the situation and grab your surfboard!
Worst case you could pull a hose clamp off and let them drain to the bilge. Make that poor little pump work its heart out.

Have thought the same. Likely pull the clamp off on the trailer, on ramp, if necessary.

@Bill D, am I looking for a loose wire?

 

[Bill D]

Would have to be touching wires. I was thinking connectors touching? If it were really a short it would have popped some sort of protection device. Breaker or fuse.

 

[Glen]

Would have to be touching wires. I was thinking connectors touching? If it were really a short it would have popped some sort of protection device. Breaker or fuse.

Do you think if a breaker of fuze blew that it would still show 'short circuit' on the screen?
Was thinking that this could be why all 3 pumps show. 1 of the pumps had a short, it through the fuse for all 3.

Now to find where that fuse is....

 

[Bill D]

I suppose it would depend on how the system works, but I would assume once the circuit protection opened, it would show "open" and be blue on the screen. It looks like there is a software version listed for a "pump control". If there is an electric pump controller, it could monitor the pump condition and disable it before it popped a fuse or breaker. Can you walk us through the series of events that led up to the pumps stopping? It might help point us in the right direction.

You could start at the pumps and try to follow the wires back to wherever they are fed from. My guess would be that since it is a factory install they would be fed out of the main fuse panel.

What did you do to get her out of the water?

 

[Glen]

I suppose it would depend on how the system works, but I would assume once the circuit protection opened, it would show "open" and be blue on the screen. It looks like there is a software version listed for a "pump control". If there is an electric pump controller, it could monitor the pump condition and disable it before it popped a fuse or breaker. Can you walk us through the series of events that led up to the pumps stopping? It might help point us in the right direction.

You could start at the pumps and try to follow the wires back to wherever they are fed from. My guess would be that since it is a factory install they would be fed out of the main fuse panel.

What did you do to get her out of the water?

I was in the 'sys cntl' screen, calibrating the ballast bags (empty, fill, safe). It took me a few tries before I was doing the process in the right place so was possibly working the systems fairly hard, filling, emptying,...2 or 3 times. Was never getting the center bag to fill correctly, and even with it empty, the system was still showing it to be 40% full. This is part of the reason I went to the calibration process.

There is definitely a pump controller module, on the starboard side, above the 2 starboard pumps (believe starboard and center bags). I know I am likely getting towards needing someone with access to the service book, but would you think that I should be able to reset anything in that controller, without bringing it to the dealer?

I left her in the water overnight (at VRBO lake house on Lake Kerr) and plan to use that port ballast being full as reason that the family learns to wake surf, today. When given lemons, make lemonade!

Worst case, I'll drain that ballast bag when back on the trailer, when on a slope. Let gravity do the work but conscious that all the electronics are in that port stern locker too, though separated compartment (can't assume it is fully water proof and want to make sure that ballast goes directly to bilge).

Glen

 

[Julian]

@Glen I plan to ask the dealer techs today (While picking up my boat) about this process....so hopefully I will learn how they:

1) calibrate the system
2) what a "short circuit" indicator might mean and how to solve for it

Julian

 

[Julian]

I moved these posts to their own thread as the [USERGROUP=9]@HELP[/USERGROUP] thread is really only a "how to use it post"...not intended for all the replies it has....don't want good stuff to get buried in there! (and yes...very self serving of me to move the 242x posts! LOL -guess I should look at moving others!)

 

[njmr2fan]

Long shot here, Is it possible that the bag that is filled is pushing on a wire causing a break in the circut? Maybe there are no wires that even co-mingle in the bays IDK, just throwing out an idea.

 

[Glen]

Long shot here, Is it possible that the bag that is filled is pushing on a wire causing a break in the circut? Maybe there are no wires that even co-mingle in the bays IDK, just throwing out an idea.

Sounds plausible...will check-

 

[Julian]

I'm surprised the boat wasn't "calibrated" when you got it. When I "toured" the boat last year, I was told the pumps were set to pump for a set time to fill the bags, and that there wasn't a full sensor (but they were evaluating that as it was still a prototype boat).

 

[Glen]

Not sure the calibration was necessary… But it seemed logical course of action when I wasn't getting my center ballast bag to report the right volume in the bag. I believe the calibration is so that the timer can be set right with what an empty bag is actually and may be what a Max filled bag is. I've just spoken to my dealer and their service manager I should know more here in a bit…

 

[Bill D]

Maybe you can disconnect the pumps and reset the module. If that gets the fault to clear, connect them one at a time to test if they work at all. If any one works and any one brings back the fault, you could have found a bad pump. If you can't get the module to reset, there could be something wrong with the pump controller and the pumps themselves may be fine.

Also, if you have a digital multimeter, you could ring out the pump motors. Put the meter in ohms mode and connect one lead to each of the wires for the pump. You should see some value there greater than one ohm and less than infinite. Less than 0.2 would likely be a shorted pump motor.

 

[Glen]

One problem (solved) is that it appears that the 'stranded' port ballast bag is emptying itself into the bilge. Solves a problem of not needing to manually empty it, but certainly appears that there is another problem of a gasket or something. Since it is slow (full last night at 7 PM, 2/3 empty by this AM. Bilge pump is handling it fine.

Between re-reading the manual this AM and putting all the parts together, I am fairly certain that I have a faulty ballast controller.
-Been getting an intermittent "Err" with the speed, from day 1. (was thinking GPS comms as most likely candidate, but maybe not...)
-Could never get the ballast system to respond to touch screen input (only from the joy stick). Manual very clearly states that touchscreen is a viable means of accomplishing this task.
-Could never get the center ballast bag to move any water into
-Finally "Short Circuit" on all 3 pumps and lost control of all ballast bags

Controller feels like it is the root cause-
Have it to the dealer on Monday (they have been warned ;-) and Friday we leave for FL for BIMINI!!!!!!

We had an awesome time this afternoon with the Delta 3 (Costco). You can get it to flip, but you have to work pretty hard ;->

 

[Glen]

Maybe you can disconnect the pumps and reset the module. If that gets the fault to clear, connect them one at a time to test if they work at all. If any one works and any one brings back the fault, you could have found a bad pump. If you can't get the module to reset, there could be something wrong with the pump controller and the pumps themselves may be fine.

Also, if you have a digital multimeter, you could ring out the pump motors. Put the meter in ohms mode and connect one lead to each of the wires for the pump. You should see some value there greater than one ohm and less than infinite. Less than 0.2 would likely be a shorted pump motor.

Great input Bill. I will try this this today. Maybe it is and has just been the center ballast pump??
GREATLY appreciate the input. Thank you @Bill D!

Glen

 

[Bill D]

Hope you get it figured out! Post up the end result. Curious minds want to know.

 

[2nazt]

Hope the dealer knows your turn around time frame. I have heard horror stories with turn around times.

 

[Glen]

Hope the dealer knows your turn around time frame. I have heard horror stories with turn around times.

Told them to commit to getting it done in this schedule or refer me to a dealer who will. But I did not get the return call I was promised today...