Adding A Bilge Pump with Float

[treeskier]

I upgraded from a 2002 LS 2000 this spring to a 2016 242 limited S. The season got off to a late start due to some construction delays in the replacement of our bulkhead, pier and lift. After just few weekends on the boat I’m thinking that since my boat is plug in on a lift I want a bilge pump that is isolated from the connext system and the battery switches. This way I can switch off start and house battery switches but still have an emergency bilge pump wired directly to the house battery in case we get heavy rain.

I’m thinking of using a “Y” fitting to split the existing bilge discharge hose (I do not want to drill an additional discharge hole) sea sense makes one that has back flow prevention.

What I’m looking for here is some advice on which pump (with built in float) you recommend. Is GPH a factor? Also I’ll be leaving the existing pump so I’m guessing space is also a consideration.

Thanks

 

[Bluewater272]

I would strongly recommend adding an extra bilge outlet. I understand you might be apprehensive about drilling a hole, but it's really not a big deal. Thirty seconds and its over, and you have an ideal setup. Backflow preventing valves may work, but valves also fail. Should you get into a serious issue where both pumps need to run together, the existing outlet will not be able to handle the flow.

Just my $0.02.

This is what I used:
Amazon.com : SeaSense Bilge Pump Plumbing Kit 3/4 X 5-Inch : Boating Bilge Pumps : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : SEAFLO Automatic Submersible Boat Bilge Water Pump 12v 750GPH Auto with Float Switch : Bilge Pumps For Boats : Sports & Outdoors
Amazon.com : 1onehelper New 3/4" Plastic Thru-Hull Bilge Pump and Aerator Hose Fitting for Boats(1pack) : Sports & Outdoors

 

[Beachbummer]

Sorry to be the blunt bearer of terrible news:
Extra Outlet is required. No choice.

The pump is rated for the flow with exclusive use of the hose diameter. No way around it.
BUT It looks neat, and you get to drill a hole in your hull.

Don't Hesitate! this is a super important upgrade.

 

[swatski]

I responded in your other thread, here is a brief description of those issues (below). Basically, pump ratings mean very little if not considered in the context of the line's internal diameter, corrugation, vertical drop etc. A Y-fitting requires a valve which is just not a good idea for an emergency system, the non-reversible aerator style pumps (almost all bilge pumps) do not act as a valve.

Secondary bilge pump, IMO.

Here is a quick repost of my setup:

"I don't particularly care for the factory bilge pump set up. I don't really like leaving the boat with battery switches on, if it can be avoided.... So, in my boat I finally got a backup bilge pump installed - the way I like it - direct to the battery (fused).

I use the simplest of all pumps - an automatic with a float switch. Attwood or Rule, doesn't matter, they are all the same. They all get terrible reviews, but I think it is primarily due to installation and maintenance issues.
The Ultra (brand) switch is about the only thing that will not fail - and something I would get if I wet slipped.

Otherwise, they all can get stuck in either "off" or "on" position, but I believe those inexpensive float switch automatics are actuslly the most reliable, if frequently tested and kept reasonably clean. One of my past boats leaked heavily (before I rebuilt the transom) - I had a chance to test various setups over the few years I kept it, lol.

Basically - the cycling ones (like the OEM pump) sense a load, any load - so it could be debris that will keep those on and drain your battery pretty quickly leaving the boat unprotected. Same with the "actual liquid sensing" (conductance, optical or whatever) - those can be fooled/activated by dirt - and stay "on". What is even more worrisome, neither of those two types (or the newer ones that "sense" but then default to "cycling" if they think it is just dirt) will actually pump if gasoline or oil is present...
(I'm all for clean environment, but if my boat sinks....)

Here is my backup bilge pump setup (inside the stern):

The pump's base is screwed and 5200-ed to one of the support beams (for the ride plate underneath the hull) at the bottom of the bilge. This backup pump operates completely independently of the factory bilge pump and is the only device in my boat that is live when all battery switches are "OFF". I have it wired directly to the house battery with a 16awg wire (using ground-black, and automatic - brown, with the brown/white - manual sealed off) running in a loom (top in the picture) - going into the engine compartment inside another large loom, along steering cables. The hot wire is fused within few inches of the positive terminal with a 5A fuse. The drain hose (bottom) is a standard 5ft 3/4" with a dedicated thru-hull outlet fitting installed above/forward off of the strbd rear cleat (don't have a picture).

Oh, I forgot to add - the pump is accessible through the cleanout tray hatch/opening - I can reach it to test the pump with the little dial knob. "

EDIT: Here is a picture of the outlet - the pump ejects a 5ft long stream. When putting this kind of back up together - I think it is very important to have an independent hose line/outlet, a well designed system with a short, clear path is more important than the nominal "GPH" rating of a pump, which is often based on unrealistic circumstances.

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[treeskier]

Sorry to be the blunt bearer of terrible news:
Extra Outlet is required. No choice.

The pump is rated for the flow with exclusive use of the hose diameter. No way around it.
BUT It looks neat, and you get to drill a hole in your hull.

Don't Hesitate! this is a super important upgrade.

Yep I guess I’m drilling. On the old boat I drilled a 2in hole to install the battery tender outlet and cover so I guess I’ll be ok.

 

[Beachbummer]

Yes, many times the pump rating is with no head. You want to use a hose with an internally smooth surface of you can help it. I did not mind losing a little bit of power and placing the outlet a little higher than the oem one, but that is a personal choice.

 

[swatski]

Yes, many times the pump rating is with no head. You want to use a hose with an internally smooth surface of you can help it. I did not mind losing a little bit of power and placing the outlet a little higher than the oem one, but that is a personal choice.

Yes. But the corrugated hose, while slower than smooth as far as flow ratings, does not have as much of a tendency to kink itself shut.
I would go corrugated, which is usually what’s included with those kits. For a good reason.

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[Beachbummer]

For the meager price of $5 per foot I found the hose I needed, corrugated on the outside and smooth on the inside, at West Marine ( It was an odd size, that's why it cost an arm and a leg)

I have had great luck with the reinforced nylon hose for bilge use, and it's smooth on the inside. (but they don't make it for 1+1/8 like the Attwood 1200 needs) I used cable ties to direct it on my old boat and it lasted 14 years to the date I sold it. I presume it is still giving service.

I admit I examined the hose that comes with the kit and I was not impressed so I passed and sourced my own. Home Depot also has a 1+1/8 bilge/washer drain hose... Also not impressed...

As you know I am among the cheapest of the cheap, and always advocate for inexpensive solutions, but this was an area I felt I could splurge on with positive results, and it would be worth it.

I'm interested to hear how the corrugated kit hose fares.

 

[swatski]

For the meager price of $5 per foot I found the hose I needed, corrugated on the outside and smooth on the inside, at West Marine ( It was an odd size, that's why it cost an arm and a leg)

I have had great luck with the reinforced nylon hose for bilge use, and it's smooth on the inside. (but they don't make it for 1+1/8 like the Attwood 1200 needs) I used cable ties to direct it on my old boat and it lasted 14 years to the date I sold it. I presume it is still giving service.

I admit I examined the hose that comes with the kit and I was not impressed so I passed and sourced my own. Home Depot also has a 1+1/8 bilge/washer drain hose... Also not impressed...

As you know I am among the cheapest of the cheap, and always advocate for inexpensive solutions, but this was an area I felt I could splurge on with positive results, and it would be worth it.

I'm interested to hear how the corrugated kit hose fares.

I used a corrugated kit hose in my secondary bilge pump build, it came with the automatic pump/float switch.

I had two hoses pinched shut (kinked) in my new boat, a drain line under the swim deck, and one of the cooling /flushing water valve hoses (port side) - both of those reinforced smooth hoses, kinked I think due to being too long and we’re routed badly, caused me a considerable headache at some point.

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[treeskier]

Ok thanks for all the great info in this thread. Looks like I’m drilling a hole for a separate discharge and looking at an Atwood or Rule pump with an integral float fused and connected directly to the house battery. If it’s a straight direct shot use a smooth reenforced hose if I have a longer circuitous route to the outlet use corrugated tubing.

As I said earlier the pump on this boat isn’t really located in the bilge it’s in the engine compartment which means the pump woks from the top down meaning the pump doesn’t start to work until water comes up from the bilge into the engine compartment.... rather than the bottom up (if the pump were in the lowest part of the bilge).

So where do I locate the backup pump in the engine compartment right next to the current pump or in the area under the access panel between the clean out plugs like @swatski? Or is it irrelevant since the engine compartment and bilge are at about the same level?

Thanks to everyone for the input

 

[swatski]

So where do I locate the backup pump in the engine compartment right next to the current pump or in the area under the access panel between the clean out plugs like @swatski? Or is it irrelevant since the engine compartment and bilge are at about the same level?

For your purpose the exact location does not matter, IMO. I would place it where you can comfortably mount it and then reach it easily to test the operation periodically. Bilge or engine compartment next to the factory pump, doesn’t really matter. It will to its job of protecting the boat and the engines/electronics from accidental swamping while sitting in the lift in either location.

In these boats, Yamaha uses this pseudo double hull construction and with the deck leveled the lowest point inside the hull is actually forward of the engine bay, somewhere under the helm area (under the ski locker).

Consequently, if you need to drain the bilge, the bow needs to cranked up pretty high when on the trailer. On the lift you do not have that option of course.

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[swatski]

I like mine in the bilge as there is a place in the new hull that’s pretty low close to the bottom of the keel, and I can easily reach down there for testing through the opening in the cleanout hatch. I like it back there as the water rushes back on plane and gets pumped out, the engine bay factory pump never kicks in.

My boat normally lives on a covered lift but like yourself I have no access to the drain plug, so that’s why I like the bilge location of the aux pump, it cleans the water out whenever I go out.
Hope that makes sense, lol.

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[Beachbummer]

Right, the very back is the lowest point while on plane, so at least then you can empty the bilge. Great point.

 

[treeskier]

I like mine in the bilge as there is a place in the new hull that’s pretty low close to the bottom of the keel, and I can easily reach down there for testing through the opening in the cleanout hatch. I like it back there as the water rushes back on plane and gets pumped out, the engine bay factory pump never kicks in.

My boat normally lives on a covered lift but like yourself I have no access to the drain plug, so that’s why I like the bilge location of the aux pump, it cleans the water out whenever I go out.
Hope that makes sense, lol.

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Sounds good ... that makes sense. I keep my cover on as well but it’s 3 years old (4th season) and it’s hanging in there but my fear is we get one of these late summer storms very high winds and 6in of rain in 30 min and the cover is either off or can’t stop it. My first choice for mounting is going to be inside that access hatch between the clean out plugs and put the discharge above the rub rail

 

[Bluewater272]

I placed mine back in the bilge in the same area that swatski did. I didn't drill it into the boat though, I 5200'd a piece of starboard bridging the gap, and then screwed it onto that.

 

[Beachbummer]

I also did not drill. I used cable ties to secure everything, and after 3 years so far so good.

 

[Liveto99]

Scared man with a 5 gallon pail works great also in a emergency.
Just my .02
They have a holder for the pail in the 21fsh

 

[Beachbummer]

Ikea bag worked wonders for me when I was playing this role in real life. And it folds flat. Don't recommend the experience, but can recommend Ikea bag.

 

[swatski]

Scared man with a 5 gallon pail works great also in a emergency.
Just my .02
They have a holder for the pail in the 21fsh

Yeah, it works really well in the engine bay and bilge... (not).
Maybe I just don’t get it though. Can you show a picture of a 5 gal bucket fitting below the air intakes in a 1.8 boat?


BYW - here is mine, it’s the best of course (lol)

https://jetboaters.net/threads/adding-a-bilge-pump-with-float.23080/#post-391010

-/

 

[Beachbummer]

When things are dire and it's "chicken with it's head cut off" time just bail water from the ski locker. (Locker drain Plug off) It will be full of water coming from the bilge/Hull below. Once the ski locker is dry, you can then stop manual pump operation.