Advise needed

[Ronnie]

@boudin / Greg, thanks for the clarification. So as I now understand it it would cost $9,400, more of you have to replace other broken parts to replace both engines not $20k to $30k previously estimated. Is your advise to buy the boat for $25k and replace the engines if necessary for another $10k (rounding up a little) bringing the total cost before other repairs to $35k?

I’ve had a ski with a rebuilt sbt engine and loved it, eventually it failed as a result of things I did so don’t blame sbt for it. However, I’ve read a handful of good reviews on sbt engines but a lot more bad reviews here and on other sites like green hulk. That stated I would NOT buy a used boat knowing that the engines need to be replaced or if I had any reason to suspect the engines or even an engine needs to be replaced unless I wanted to take on such a project and I could get the boat for something closer to salvage value (with two bad motors). For $25k I would be looking for something a lot more turn-key ready.

In context for $35k I could get the same model just maybe an earlier year that is turn-key ready and possibly one that’s never been in salt water or one with a galvanized trailer.

@Kingmc , I feel the same way about going into debt for a toy but when I was looking to upgrade the used cost were still greater than the cash I had on hand so I took a 15 year boat loan out (with Essex credit / Bank of the West) for the full amount, paid it down on the first monthly installment with the money I had and paid it off within either a year or two of signing the loan documents. I went with a 15 year as opposed to a 10 year loan to keep the monthly cost down, and didn’t care much about the interest rate which is higher for used v. New since I knew I would be paying it off early. This may not be for you, I’m just suggesting you consider it as an alternative if you pass on the subject boat and can’t find another in your current price range. The big changes to the 240s came in 2015 so as long as you stay in the 2010 (2012 if you need the tower to collapse easily) to 2014 range you shouldn’t see a large price difference.

If you haven’t already take a look at yamahajetboaters.com they still have members there that are not members here some of which may be selling their used 242s/240s.

 

[Coheeba]

@Kingmc check this out 2011 242

 

[boudin]

@boudin / Greg, thanks for the clarification. So as I now understand it it would cost $9,400, more of you have to replace other broken parts to replace both engines not $20k to $30k previously estimated. Is your advise to buy the boat for $25k and replace the engines if necessary for another $10k (rounding up a little) bringing the total cost before other repairs to $35k?

Disclaimer: I have not researched actual market prices here... just going off your example above. I would go for the $35k boat that is in very good condition and needs no mechanical work, and/or light cosmetic work. If you are buying a boat you know needs a good deal of work, then you need to factor in risk.

-Greg

 

[AZ Native]

@Kingmc Now that I’ve seen your pics and the discussions about the engines, I honestly think you should buy something in really good condition in your budget. If you can only afford $25k for a boat don’t by a $40k boat that’s only worth $25k because it’s been abused. This 2013 has been abused. Buy an older Yamy that’s in great shape and enjoy it until you can afford to upgrade. I started with a 2005 AR230 for 2 years and just upgraded to a 2013 240LS. I had a lot of fun with the 2005, it was in great shape and I just sold it this week for $2k more that others were asking for similar models in my area because I took great care of it.

My personal phiolospy about toys is, “Never Buy New, and Always Pay Cash”. If you don’t mind me sounding like your father (and I’m likely old enough to qualify), if you can’t pay cash for a toy, you can’t afford the toy. I don’t mean to start anything, but I worry that to many of my younger friends and even my employees are financing their entertainment. I think it’s dangerous and it’s certainly not how I was raised.

 

[Betik]

constant worry is not worth the "potential" $10K saving.

For me peace of mind is very important. Knowing that you can trust your boat is critical. When we crossed to Bimini in 2017 my stbd engine shut down twice. During the fog of war it did not cross my mind that it was the safety switch on the clean out hatch. The #1 reason for not turning around is because I knew that the boat was maintained by @txav8r and was confident that the boat was 100% mechanically sounds.

not to sounds like a @AZ Native clone, but he is dam right about paying cash.

 

[txav8r]

Extend the clean out hatch switches slightly. Even in perfect adjustment, in conditions you experienced @Betik , there isn’t any guarantee that the pounding won’t loosen or even damage such a sensitive switch or other components. Not knowing what might have been carried in the cleanout hatch compartment, it too could have been getting airborne and causing the hatch to raise, killing the engine. Those conditions were not for faint of heart! Or for my former boat!

I haven’t read the thread, but the jist seems buying well maintained vs abused. You know my choice every time.

 

[Betik]

Not knowing what might have been carried in the cleanout hatch compartment, it too could have been getting airborne and causing the hatch to raise, killing the engine.

trust me you know exactly what was being carried. The shore spike anchor LOL.
I still hurt thinking what Blue Yonder went through last July. This year, I am going on both Bimini trips but I am riding as crew.

In 2019 though we are thinking to go for 2 weeks with the newly purchased aluminum trailer, tower, shower and few other mods .....

 

[Beachbummer]

I don’t mean to start anything, but I worry that to many of my younger friends and even my employees are financing their entertainment. I think it’s dangerous and it’s certainly not how I was raised.

So, you did not mean to start anything??



I have a friendly counter argument, with intent of furthering discussion. no malice intended. If we all agreed, all the time, where would be the fun in that?

I grew up in a place with super high inflation where credit was not widely available, and I can see now how credit is a huge leveraging tool that allows great things to be possible. Currency stability and the availability of credit greatly enhances people's lives. No doubt in my mind about it. It can also be your doom if you over burden yourself, but used sparingly, it creates opportunities that are impossible otherwise.

I think borrowing for a toy well within your ability to pay doesn't have to be "dangerous". If you borrow $20K and pay $380 monthly for 5 years, and you are doing well financially, that's 5 years of boat ownership you would have missed in your lifetime, if you had waited to save the money. You would have paid $2-$3K to enjoy the boat 5 years sooner. You are willingly foregoing the opportunity to own the boat for 5 more years for a mere $2200 because you want to have all the cash upfront? For someone in a solid financial situation, I can't see the upside to waiting. Come on credit!

Credit can certainly be abused, but it's an incredible tool of modernity that makes ownership of expensive capital purchases possible much sooner for relatively low cost. I'm fairly conservative on the credit usage, but having lived were credit was unavailable, I can value its benefits greatly, and I can see the economic impact it has in increased activity vs. everyone having to fully save upfront before they can buy something that's pretty expensive, but otherwise much more accesible with credit.

I was also raised where you had to buy toys up front, but because there was no credit available. No choice! I'd much rather have the choice!!!! and I don't mind using it when it makes sense for my financial situation. While it requires planning and self control..maybe it's dangerous like fire, not like a land mine...controlled use can be beneficial.

 

[Ronnie]

IMHO the promise of Financing is only realized in a perfect world when a borrower has the option and financial discipline to use credit wisely, not over extend themelves and pay it back early or on time to avoid over paying for the money they have borrowed (I.e., keeping their cost of capital down).

However, the reality is that while many businesses and individuals are able to use credit to their advantage (e.g. Apple, FedEx and individuals who are already independently wealthy or well off) there are also many that have little or no choice but to buy on credit or not at all (e.g. Tesla, Toys R Us and high to low income earners who live and/or work in high cost areas).

In consideration of the above along with loan default rates and a general inability to foresee the future i do not recommend that anyone finance a toy / luxury item but if they absolutely, positively have to have it and have it now, finance it inteligently.

For clarification, I don’t consider a home or even a college education luxuries but necessities but that doesn’t mean I advocate buying more home or education than is necessary (e.g. a small single family home or state subsidized college and university education v. A mansion or an Ivy League education, respectively).

A boat for personal use is truely a luxury and one that gives rise to many other recurring costs aside from the original purchase price financed or not, like insurance, maintenance, repair, storage, launch fees and of course general operating costs (i.e., gas) as well as similar costs for the tow vehicle. A smart buyer should factor all of these costs into their purchase/finance decision when they ask themselves whether they can afford to purchase a boat a less intelligent more impulsive buyer/borrower will not.

 

[AZ Native]

I think borrowing for a toy well within your ability to pay doesn't have to be "dangerous". If you borrow $20K and pay $380 monthly for 5 years, and you are doing well financially, that's 5 years of boat ownership you would have missed in your lifetime, if you had waited to save the money. You would have paid $2-$3K to enjoy the boat 5 years sooner. You are willingly foregoing the opportunity to own the boat for 5 more years for a mere $2200 because you want to have all the cash upfront? For someone in a solid financial situation, I can't see the upside to waiting. Come on credit!

@Beachbummer Good comment and if this was what I see happening I don’t think I would disagree, but financing a boat for 10 to 15 years because you just have to have the new and lastest model is more of what I see. When my kids were little I wanted a camping trailer, but until I could afford to pay cash for an older model I bought a tent. When I wanted a bass boat, I bought a 14’ row boat with a 10 horse engine until I could save up for an 18’ run about. It’s the keeping up with the Jones by misusing credit that worries me. I’ve seen so many 30 somethings selling toys to get out from under the payments or filing bankruptcy that I want to shout “Stop It”. This is my personal philosophy (just for thought). “Always buy used toys and always pay cash for toys.” A boat, camper, Polaris Razor, etc. are toys not necessities. Save up cash, buy small and used, work your way up and still have fun. BTW, now that I can pay cash for nicer toys, I have myself convinced I’m spoiling my grandkids rather than myself. So far it’s working.

 

[Kingmc]

Thanks for all the info. I have decided to pass on this one. I have a really nice boat that is paid for but it is a fishing boat and does not fit what our family is doing now. I was hoping this boat would be a good option for a second boat without having to sell my current center console. That has become apparent not to be the case and to get a well cared for and mechanically sound Yamaha I will sell what I have and pony the cash for the difference in either a new or preferably late model 242. I agree with most of what has been said about credit and extending oneself. I do very well financially and could afford a note or even pay cash for a new 242 but I want to retire early and prefer to live below our means. So cash it is for us! Lol. Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[ClemsonTiger]

Smart Choice!

 

[AZ Native]

So cash it is for us! Lol. Thanks again for all the advice!

Well done “Grasshopper”.

 

[Coheeba]

My .02.
I don't know your specific situation but...If you are doing well financially and get a good deal on a late model boat, put a good down payment and maintain the boat, you will have equity in the boat should an unforeseen problem come up. You can always sell the boat. They retain their value quite well. I have a note on my boat but have approx. 30k in equity. Live for today enjoy your life and your family now, you never know what tomorrow brings. (Just don't over live). P.S. Don't use your retirement savings.