All 2016 Yamaha 190 and 192 models will have "articulating keels"

[njmr2fan]

Same here. No way I could get in my driveway with that rudder. I pull my Thrust Vector XL's up and secure them with a bungee cord to the scupper outlet plate.

What kind of driveway inclines do you guys have????

 

[SamCF]

Not sure the angle, but if I don't back up just right, the bottom of the trailer drags the ground.

 

[ken4motion]

Hey Will, does it look like one could bolt on the '16 "rudder" parts to retrofit onto the 12-15 190's?

 

[Impeller>Propeller]

It's called a RUDDER and I don't like it.

Say ... RUDDER

And now it even sticks BELOW the bottom of the rear hull! Ugggggh. Can it be removed and just switch to fins? I know this is a 190 thread, what about the 240s? Do the 240's RUDDERS now also extend below the bottom of the hull?

Yamaha, some nice steps forwards, and some big steps backwards...

I most often anchor up on a sandbar and now the stern of the boat looks to have another 5 o 6" of draft and now the stern is more likely to bounce the rudder on the bottom with the waves.

Why are the other brands not needing to bother adding RUDDERS to their boats? It would be awesome I think to get a RUDDERLESS Yamaha 240 (with fins), a new 240 with a RUDDER, and a scarab, chaparral, etc into a review to determine the various effects on low speed manuevering and NEUTRAL spinning, and dock/boat ramp manuevering.

Actually, the 2015's without the keel have a draft of 14 inches. The new 2016's with the keel have a draft of 12.8 inches

 

[JetBoatPilot]

That has been our proposition all along. You really dont neneea rudder at high speed and by adding one the turning radius is greatly increased.

We believe that jet boats only need help with maneuverability at slow speeds.

I am not sure if the draft numbers on the new 240 a re accurate. Yamaha had to extend the keel a bit lower than on previous 24 footers so the draft is slightly increased, now roughly 18" at stand still. On the 24 however the rudder does not hang beneath the keel, unlike the 19 footer.

 

[mrmeaniemeateaterman]

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here, but the "rudder" on the 19ft boat has to extend down because the jet is in the middle. With the bigger, dual engine, boats the 2 jets off to each side from the middle, thus the articulating keel does not need to hang down and can be placed in that middle space. That's enough knowledge spreading for one day.

 

[swatski]

Actually, the 2015's without the keel have a draft of 14 inches. The new 2016's with the keel have a draft of 12.8 inches

I don't know where do these numbers come from, but regardless of the actual draft, it is having a downward protrusion (such as a fixed keel or fixed rudder) that poses a particular hazard, can break off on impact and spell doom for shallow water boaters.
https://jetboaters.net/threads/sank-my-boat.7567/
Fins bounce up on impact. More tracking at speed and a more planed feel is a definite plus for many here, particularly when towing skiers/wakeboarders. Some of the designs, most notably Cobras, can be set up to stay down at speed but still bounce up on impact. And the current 190 hull already handles chop better than most V-hull boats that size.

Is Yamaha reinventing the wheel to run themselves over? I think yes.

--

 

[OperationROL]

I don't know where do these numbers come from, but regardless of the actual draft, it is having a downward protrusion (such as a fixed keel or fixed rudder) that poses a particular hazard, can break off on impact and spell doom for shallow water boaters.
https://jetboaters.net/threads/sank-my-boat.7567/
Fins bounce up on impact. More tracking at speed and a more planed feel is a definite plus for many here, particularly when towing skiers/wakeboarders. Some of the designs, most notably Cobras, can be set up to stay down at speed but still bounce up on impact. And the current 190 hull already handles chop better than most V-hull boats that size.

Is Yamaha reinventing the wheel to run themselves over? I think yes.

--

Not sure if the quoted posts proves anything about the articulating keel. You should notice where the damage starts. It is almost all the way to the front to the bow. The articulating keel did not cause that damage, rather was victim of whatever that boater did. Having had an SX230 without the "rudder" and my current 242 LS with it, I can tell you the draft is not affected on the 242 since the articulating keel does not extend below the bow. The only issue I see is the turning radius is much greater now (similar to a stern drive). I still back my boat up to the beach, but now not as shallow.

 

[swatski]

Not sure if the quoted posts proves anything about the articulating keel. You should notice where the damage starts. It is almost all the way to the front to the bow. The articulating keel did not cause that damage, rather was victim of whatever that boater did. Having had an SX230 without the "rudder" and my current 242 LS with it, I can tell you the draft is not affected on the 242 since the articulating keel does not extend below the bow. The only issue I see is the turning radius is much greater now (similar to a stern drive). I still back my boat up to the beach, but now not as shallow.

I would tend to agree about the keel damage in the other boat, but the rudder part (as in the first pics in this thread - fixed to the ride plate) is a vulnerability.

 

[OperationROL]

I would tend to agree about the keel damage in the other boat, but the rudder part (as in the first pics in this thread - fixed to the ride plate) is a vulnerability.

You're right. ON the 190/2 series the articulating keel does hang down lower below the hull (still not close to as low as a stern drive). I bet that boat tracks well with that but see the draw back you are talking about. However, we are all having these discussions because we own or have owned Yamahas before the articulating keel. A NEW Yami owner will still see this as a major benefit over a stern drive since they know nothing else. I am sure Yamaha took the calculated risk because in 5 years none of us will still be talking about this as a drawback.

 

[d_coyne1984]

I have never driven one of these boats so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that the rudder should really help with boarders pulling the back of the boat out. I hate that.

 

[swatski]

I have never driven one of these boats so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that the rudder should really help with boarders pulling the back of the boat out. I hate that.

Hate to say this but... you might benefit from the cobras - the ultimates installed in "down at speed" position, plus fangs. Is there a way to lock TVs down so that they would stay down at speed?

 

[njmr2fan]

I looked at installing springs to hold them down and then just went to Cobras since I wanted full time fins.

 

[d_coyne1984]

Hate to say this but... you might benefit from the cobras - the ultimates installed in "down at speed" position, plus fangs. Is there a way to lock TVs down so that they would stay down at speed?

I thought about that, but my dealer sold me TV before I knew about Cobra's or that the ass of the boat likes to pull out on hard cuts. I think the plastic on TV would be too flimsy to handle hard turns at speed while in the down position so I don't think it would be a good idea to crank the spring tightness to try and keep them down. And when I say "I hate that" I really mean I find it to be a minor annoyance. I bought a jet boat in full acceptance that it was not an inboard and the benefits come with the drawbacks. One day I might pony up for the Cobra's, but money is tight right now.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

We don't recommend locking the fins down. We've seen and heard of too many situations where either the nozzle was damaged due to a strike or the steering cables were sheared due to the excessive force that the fins add.

And to address the comment earlier about our polymer material being flimsy, we chose this material so that the fins would give in the event of a submerged object impact. Our warranty covers replacement if damaged. If we had chosen to go with a metal fin we believe that submerged object strikes would cause major damage and potential loss of control of he boat.

 

[4x15mph]

@JetBoatPilot , I expect Yamaha is calling you and Cobra trying to negotiate a deal for the fins. Not sure why they are going to the lengths that they are to reinvent the wheel unless they really believe they have the secret sauce. We have all seen the videos of the Rotax pump design vs. Yamaha and perceived steering benefits. This would be a good opportunity to "challenge" that with a video of your 192 series fin design. Put it up against a scarab/chap/glastron and we can have an episode of mythbusters.

For the challenge, you should also include the draft with your design versus the draft of the new rudder. I expect the fins have a real advantage here and like some others, I do not want to drag a lower hanging rudder. I did break a jet bucket last year and I have some suspicions on what caused it.

Great work and I can't wait to see you continue with all of the innovation.

 

[d_coyne1984]

We don't recommend locking the fins down. We've seen and heard of too many situations where either the nozzle was damaged due to a strike or the steering cables were sheared due to the excessive force that the fins add.

And to address the comment earlier about our polymer material being flimsy, we chose this material so that the fins would give in the event of a submerged object impact. Our warranty covers replacement if damaged. If we had chosen to go with a metal fin we believe that submerged object strikes would cause major damage and potential loss of control of he boat.

I did not mean to rag on the Thrust Vectors. They do exactly what they are designed to do which is slow speed maneuvering and I am glad I have them. I kind of assumed they were built to be somewhat pliable in the case of an impact, but I don't believe in any way shape or form that there is any build quality issues. I just wanted to point out that I don't think they would be a good option for someone who wants a high speed rudder. So just to be clear to all parties out there, I would highly recommend the product if you are in the market for some steering enhancement.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Thanks @d_coyne1984

@4x15mph that would be a fun video to shoot. I need a few volunteers to come to Panama City Beach in the fall when we have some time and we can shoot it!

In my opinion Yamaha is really targeting the new jet boater who is coming from an IO or outboard setup. The keels are designed to attract those buyers as well as give them an experience that is more familiar with their previous boats. As a manufacturer I know first hand that engineering products that bring satisfaction to the consumer while addressing potential negatives and making changes based upon real world feedback is the formula for long term success.

I am a purist and many of you are as well. I love the aggressive performance of the 212SS. But I am also on the low side of the target demographic. Most people that own Yamaha boats, in my opinion, are not looking to carve 180 degree turns while attempting to toss everyone and everything in the boat out!! People by the large numbers want a sleek, stylish, reliable and functional boat that will provide fun time on the water with family and friends. I believe that Yamaha is going for the big market, which is nothing new. They have always targeted the largest segment of the market with 5000 lbs or less weight maximums to allow for the most tow vehicle options, as well as standard colors that appeal to most everyone.

After 20 years making boats this is what they have learned and I see it as wisdom, not as selling out.