Are non-refundable deposits a standard thing now?

[rrmidden]

I am totally done with these people I went to cycle springs with a checkbook in hand I talked to a kid who who never even identified himself , I wanted the FX HO CRUISERS they had advertised on face book even had the VIN numbers on there, he told me he had FX HO CRUISERS in the back so we started walking that direction and he started telling me about SUPER charged versions I stopped and told him once again that I wanted only FX HO CRUISERS, he turned around and said we don't have any. I told him of the adds and those were the reason I drove out there and his reply was YAMAHA MAKES US place adds on products we do not have in stock so you should always call before you drive out here. A few days later to gather evidence I had my girl friend call on those same adds and I will keep the rest of that to myself for now.
So I went to Barneys several times the first few I was told instantly that they had no inventory nor did they know what or when they would, I was disappointed but not upset with them being up front. After the release I went back to Barneys I was greeted by another person YOUNG and NO BUSINESS CARD EITHER! I told him what I wanted and I was there with a checkbook in hand to buy 2 FX HO CRUISERS he took all my info and told me the O T D cost with a 5 year warranty. I asked what he could do for the cost , keep in mind I buy most of my skies there I was informed that they did not work any deals and if I did not buy them there would be a line of people at the door waiting to buy them . I said really then I'am DONE and left the store. So beware these people think they have the buyer over the barrel but just wait a short time and the market is going to make an abrupt turn. I am sort of afraid to buy anything now because the factory was shut down and everything may be rushed, we see fit and finish problems when things are not being hurried so I can just imagine what will be coming out the doors I sure hope they don't cut corners just to get their products on the market but money RULES THE WORLD. So Now I will look for a couple of 1 year old FX HO CRUISERS and save myself the all the nonsense. One more thing When Inquiring from a dealer in Bradenton via the phone I was informed that there was probably not a dealer in the U S A who had a FX HO CRUISER in stock, so I thank them for the candor.

First new car my wife and I bought, had a similar experience, but it worked out in the end. Called the dealer, asking about a specific car on their website. They said they still had it, I told them we'd be there in 25 minutes. Got there, and that car was magically sold in the last 25 minutes, I was pissed called them a bunch of fucking liars, and headed toward the door. GM came out and said, no seriously, it was just sold, but we have this one (same model, color, a few extra options) and they'd give us that one (with the extra options) for the same price we had discussed on the phone. So while, I'm sure your story is 10x more common than my story, it CAN work out for the buyer once in awhile.

 

[Cyclonegrey]

Got reply's from dealer's after I let them know I was going to hold off since it wasn't feeling like the right decision.

Got basically don't let the door hit you on the way out responses. One went on to explain how many "non-refundable" deposits they got and that with production issues the only way to guarantee a new boat next season was to order now.

Yeah I'm out. Hopefully the wife doesn't lose interest when the days get colder but I'm not going to be pressured to buy and make what should be an awesome experience into a bad one.

Patience is a virtue.

 

[HangOutdoors]

but I'm not going to be pressured to buy and make what should be an awesome experience into a bad one.

Well said. Don't sweat it, it will all work out.

 

[HangOutdoors]

The interesting thing to see is that in the spring, if we are still in this lockdown mode in some way shape or form with social distancing, then I am not sure how a lot who bought will keep paying for them. The flipside is if we are not, then people will be traveling again, looking for other ways to spend their money to a lesser degree and I would assume boat sales will decline. That is the time to go work that dealer who gave you an attitude.

 

[AncientCanoe]

How much of this market demand is low supply due to the shutdown vs. lets spend our summer vacation money on a boat? I know the latter exists, but I would never have guessed there are enough people so short sighted to skew the entire market in a recession.

 

[Cyclonegrey]

I agree. I think once family's are able to go back to "destination" vacations they won't want to commit to a boat purchase or long term ownership.

Only time will tell. I'm still going to buy a nice shiny new boat. But I'm going to do it on my terms.

 

[Cyclonegrey]

How much of this market demand is low supply due to the shutdown vs. lets spend our summer vacation money on a boat? I know the latter exists, but I would never have guessed there are enough people so short sighted to skew the entire market in a recession.

I keep hearing about the production issues and missing parts to complete production which is driving the lower than normal production rates but it can't be enough of a reason.

I would never bet against the short sightedness of the American consumer. One of their friends get's a boat and BOOM! They have a boat before they even understand the commitment. Ugh the though of all the non maintained used boats that will hit the market... That's why I want new.

 

[HangOutdoors]

People want what they want, we live in an age of self gratification on many levels. As I look at my purchase earlier this year it wasn't any different. Time is the equalizer, you can never get it back and you can't make it up. Once it is gone it is gone. With us the girls only have a couple few more summers before the first one goes off to college. That is a short timeline not to capitalize on some family memories that won't come around again. The key is in trying to balance it and doing it on your own terms. Hopefully somewhat sensibly. Without this Pandemic, I can assure you there would not be a Yamaha boat sitting in my drive and I would have given vacation funds this year to Universal Studios, Vegas, Cedar Pointe and Michigan Adventure Park. A boat wasn't even on the radar.

And if I do the numbers the boat saved me a heck of a lot of money overall.

 

[Johnboat]

People want what they want, we live in an age of self gratification on many levels. As I look at my purchase earlier this year it wasn't any different. Time is the equalizer, you can never get it back and you can't make it up. Once it is gone it is gone. With us the girls only have a couple few more summers before the first one goes off to college. That is a short timeline not to capitalize on some family memories that won't come around again. The key is in trying to balance it and doing it on your own terms. Hopefully somewhat sensibly. Without this Pandemic, I can assure you there would not be a Yamaha boat sitting in my drive and I would have given vacation funds this year to Universal Studios, Vegas, Cedar Pointe and Michigan Adventure Park. A boat wasn't even on the radar.

And if I do the numbers the boat saved me a heck of a lot of money overall.

Couldn't of said it better myself. I think lot's of us are in the same boat... My kids are sophomores and juniors this year. The end of last year and most of this summer has been tough for these kids. We had to cancel a 4 week cross country RV trip and basically all of our summer plans. To make matters worse, I sold my old boat right before the pandemic hit, Regret that choice. I always planned on buying a new boat, and researched jet boats for over a year. I just wasn't prepared for everything to be sold out. Buying a boat is like trying to find toilet paper a few months ago. I do think we will see a flooded market of used boats very soon. Like you said people want immediate gratification, some at any cost. We are trying hard to stay positive around hear and make some memories, but this darn Covid situation is a thorn in my side and it has taken way to much of our precious time.

 

[Boatinmama14]

Hey all,
I’m getting set to order a 2021 and I’m being asked for a $2k non-refundable deposit to place the order. Is this normal now with this market. The dealer doesn’t have a boat for me to even look at so it’s hard to justify the “non-refundable” aspect of the deposit. It’s not like they wouldn’t be able to sell it if for some reason I wasn’t happy with the boat.
What’s the general consensus on a new boat order?

Definitely not typical (coming from a Yamaha dealer) unless it was a custom order which Yamaha doesn't do. There are multiple reasons why its not good business.

 

[Johnboat]

I am totally done with these people I went to cycle springs with a checkbook in hand I talked to a kid who who never even identified himself , I wanted the FX HO CRUISERS they had advertised on face book even had the VIN numbers on there, he told me he had FX HO CRUISERS in the back so we started walking that direction and he started telling me about SUPER charged versions I stopped and told him once again that I wanted only FX HO CRUISERS, he turned around and said we don't have any. I told him of the adds and those were the reason I drove out there and his reply was YAMAHA MAKES US place adds on products we do not have in stock so you should always call before you drive out here. A few days later to gather evidence I had my girl friend call on those same adds and I will keep the rest of that to myself for now.
So I went to Barneys several times the first few I was told instantly that they had no inventory nor did they know what or when they would, I was disappointed but not upset with them being up front. After the release I went back to Barneys I was greeted by another person YOUNG and NO BUSINESS CARD EITHER! I told him what I wanted and I was there with a checkbook in hand to buy 2 FX HO CRUISERS he took all my info and told me the O T D cost with a 5 year warranty. I asked what he could do for the cost , keep in mind I buy most of my skies there I was informed that they did not work any deals and if I did not buy them there would be a line of people at the door waiting to buy them . I said really then I'am DONE and left the store. So beware these people think they have the buyer over the barrel but just wait a short time and the market is going to make an abrupt turn. I am sort of afraid to buy anything now because the factory was shut down and everything may be rushed, we see fit and finish problems when things are not being hurried so I can just imagine what will be coming out the doors I sure hope they don't cut corners just to get their products on the market but money RULES THE WORLD. So Now I will look for a couple of 1 year old FX HO CRUISERS and save myself the all the nonsense. One more thing When Inquiring from a dealer in Bradenton via the phone I was informed that there was probably not a dealer in the U S A who had a FX HO CRUISER in stock, so I thank them for the candor.

Not to be overly pessimistic, but Im also worried about quality control during these times. I have already seen this happening in other industries, like building. Builders are not able to get the materials they are accustom to using. Some of them are substituting for lesser quality materials just to get the house built. From my understanding Yamaha cant get the parts they need to build their boats. Your guess is as good as mine on what actions they take to do to get orders filled. Hopefully the integrity of the company will shine through. Fingers crossed. I already have my order in and do not want a short cut boat.

 

[Cyclonegrey]

Just saw this article on Yamaha's half year earnings and amazingly the marine business is WAY down. They state due to closings. Demand push may be more production stall than anything else.

"
Marine Products

​

Net sales were 167.0 billion yen (a decrease of 32.6 billion yen or 16.3% compared with the same period the previous fiscal year), and operating income was 25.4 billion yen (a decrease of 13.5 billion yen or 34.6%).

​

In addition to production adjustments for outboard motors in the first quarter, outboard motors and water vehicle sales decreased in the second quarter due to the suspension of operations of North American boat builders and dealers, and the suspension of US manufacturing operations due to the COVID-19 Pandemic impact. Sales and income also declined due to the timed suspension of operations at the head office factory due to inventory adjustments."

Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd. posts half-year financial results | Powersports Business

Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd. has announced consolidated business results for the second quarter/first half of fiscal 2020.

powersportsbusiness.com

 

[Cyclonegrey]

Oh boy it just keeps getting better. One of the dealers e-mailed me back (very long winded) saying that Yamaha told them that for the 2021 model year that they will have ZERO in stock boats and that all boats will be presold units for the entire season of 2021.
"
Based on what Yamaha has said to us, for this entire model year of 2021s there is no time in which they believe we will have boats for stock and inventory. "

I just have to shake my head

 

[HangOutdoors]

Wonder what they are going to drag into the boat shows in January and February and how they are going to warm up the spring sales?

 

[captainhook]

I am totally done with these people I went to cycle springs with a checkbook in hand I talked to a kid who who never even identified himself , I wanted the FX HO CRUISERS they had advertised on face book even had the VIN numbers on there, he told me he had FX HO CRUISERS in the back so we started walking that direction and he started telling me about SUPER charged versions I stopped and told him once again that I wanted only FX HO CRUISERS, he turned around and said we don't have any. I told him of the adds and those were the reason I drove out there and his reply was YAMAHA MAKES US place adds on products we do not have in stock so you should always call before you drive out here. A few days later to gather evidence I had my girl friend call on those same adds and I will keep the rest of that to myself for now.
So I went to Barneys several times the first few I was told instantly that they had no inventory nor did they know what or when they would, I was disappointed but not upset with them being up front. After the release I went back to Barneys I was greeted by another person YOUNG and NO BUSINESS CARD EITHER! I told him what I wanted and I was there with a checkbook in hand to buy 2 FX HO CRUISERS he took all my info and told me the O T D cost with a 5 year warranty. I asked what he could do for the cost , keep in mind I buy most of my skies there I was informed that they did not work any deals and if I did not buy them there would be a line of people at the door waiting to buy them . I said really then I'am DONE and left the store. So beware these people think they have the buyer over the barrel but just wait a short time and the market is going to make an abrupt turn. I am sort of afraid to buy anything now because the factory was shut down and everything may be rushed, we see fit and finish problems when things are not being hurried so I can just imagine what will be coming out the doors I sure hope they don't cut corners just to get their products on the market but money RULES THE WORLD. So Now I will look for a couple of 1 year old FX HO CRUISERS and save myself the all the nonsense. One more thing When Inquiring from a dealer in Bradenton via the phone I was informed that there was probably not a dealer in the U S A who had a FX HO CRUISER in stock, so I thank them for the candor.

Good luck on the used front. I’m watching Waverunners sell in hours on the used marked and basically zero sellers even bother to respond to you at all. A 3-4 year old ski with 100 hours for $14,000? No thanks from me but I’d bet they are still selling. I don’t know where the hell these people are that are buying every waverunner on the market but I’m sure not seeing them on the water.

 

[captainhook]

Wonder what they are going to drag into the boat shows in January and February and how they are going to warm up the spring sales?

I’ve been wondering the same. If there are any shows, it’s sure gonna be interesting watching them try to sell boats from pictures and brochures.

 

[Cyclonegrey]

According to the one dealer I’m “dealing” with Said they won’t have any shows cause they won’t have any boats to show. Yeah this guy has been a charmer from the beginning.
The funny thing is there are 3 shows on the schedule for September in Jersey. Now if they actually happen remains to be seen.

 

[Enduro900]

The interesting thing to see is that in the spring, if we are still in this lockdown mode in some way shape or form with social distancing, then I am not sure how a lot who bought will keep paying for them. The flipside is if we are not, then people will be traveling again, looking for other ways to spend their money to a lesser degree and I would assume boat sales will decline. That is the time to go work that dealer who gave you an attitude.

I think you hit the nail on the head.....this happened with the RV industry right after 911.....people were afraid to fly for a while and the next year or two sales spiked for RV’s, then later tanked......

 

[Enduro900]

According to the one dealer I’m “dealing” with Said they won’t have any shows cause they won’t have any boats to show. Yeah this guy has been a charmer from the beginning.
The funny thing is there are 3 shows on the schedule for September in Jersey. Now if they actually happen remains to be seen.

As you mentioned boating season is almost done by you (and me)......I actually will NOT buy/order anything as I want to see them in person, and I really do think the spring buying season will be MUCH different.

Why, do you ask?

Think about this for a moment...it seems that a ton of the potential upcoming spring sales happened this year instead, including a record number of first time buyers. There is no way that the trend of this many first-time buyers will also happen in the upcoming spring......

So I believe the sales side WILL be down (maybe significantly)......but the supply side could also be down with production interruptions because of the (stupid has been proven) world-wide supply chains, which could level things out.

I’ll bet you a dollar if you wait until spring A) you’ll find the boat you want and B) you won’t be treated like you have been now.....

 

[AZMark]

How much of this market demand is low supply due to the shutdown vs. lets spend our summer vacation money on a boat? I know the latter exists, but I would never have guessed there are enough people so short sighted to skew the entire market in a recession.

Unfortunately I think you underestimate the short sightedness of the average person.
They are bored and can make the down payment so they’re going boating!!!