Boat Stereo/Battery Upgrades

[David Analog]

We have yet to discuss a measuring device that detects speaker distortion....other than by ear.
Will a 10-inch midbass driver in a tower speaker handle 400 watts continuous power? Oh heck NO! However, it will handle more transient/peak/music power.

 

[FloJet]

We have yet to discuss a measuring device that detects speaker distortion....other than by ear.
Will a 10-inch midbass driver in a tower speaker handle 400 watts continuous power? Oh heck NO! However, it will handle more transient/peak/music power.

Distortion happens even before heard by ear. Only true way to find out is Oscilloscope or other tuner. Not all distortion can be heard. Using an SMD tuner is evidence of that. Ya distortion by ear is depedent on the music being played. Sure rock music might not have distortion by ear but when you add deep bass as in Hip hop or other, Distortion can happen. SMD or oscilloscope helps find the safe point for all music if done correctly. I don't think any installer tunes a system by playing all the different levels of music out there and I don't expect them to. My equalizer helps me listen to all music by ear without distortion but the way it's set, very hard for me to get distortion at the volume levels they are set at with 0 db sine wave tuned with. That also provides peace of mind when music you listening to is not formatted correctly. 0 db puts you in the safe zone just in case you are listening to say music recorded or formatted at 5 db. That would distort your system if not taken into consideration. Throughout the day I don't have to make too much adjustments on my system expect playing with the sub and mid bass in my HCLD speakers through the WS 420. All thanks to the SMD. Before I get distortion all the time with different music. Main reason sine wave testing is the only technical way to measure distortion rather than by ear. Bass distorts at low volume than Highs So ya you might set a system where highs sound great because the installer didn't use a test tone that included some heavy to mid bass. So when that bass is introduce, distortion is probably happening without you hearing it. Our human ears can't pick up some of these distortion.

I've seen the by ear debate to the digital debate and at first I was like ya by ear and why spend more money if you don't have to. I can tell you with experience and what other high end systems do, by ear is NOT feasible for them. Its a good stating point after all is set but cannot set all by ear accurately. A debate I see all the time but differs. Not a wrong or right way to do things, I just prefer the digital route much more now days after experiencing it for my self. I like real time vs raw numbers but in this case, raw numbers is just more superior to the real time or mathematically way of tuning it. It becomes a guessing game with voltage matching and I don't want to leave that to my ears as than I would have to test with all different types of music which still makes it very difficult to know the right volume for my system without causing damage.

 

[David Analog]

Take the Wetsounds Rev410, or any Wetsounds speaker for that matter. You begin with measurements, such as the impedance curves and frequency response curves, both on and off axis. You do the initial math. Then you do the measurements with sophisticated test gear. Then the final tuning, in other words, the 'voicing' is always done by ear. In fact, Tim, the Wetsounds President, flies to China personally to do the final voicing, by ear. Same with JL Audio, except that it occurs in Florida. The final tuning of every subwoofer and speaker is done by ear, voice coil by voice coil, spider by spider, etc.
For those who buy their gear from Odin at Earmark Marine, Odin is a wealth of experience for system tuning. He was a pro sound engineer at a live venue for touring bands = incredibly complex set-up and tuning. He was around in the early '90s for the advent of car audio Digital Signal Processing and the first place award in the World Finals.
My son is also an educated and degreed audio engineer, who authors, performs and produces movie and Netflix series soundtracks.
I've had a wee bit of experience myself.
I'm just trying to give members the combined experience of an entire industry.

 

[FloJet]

Agreed @David Analog. Final product definitely has to be done by ear. That's the only way to tell if it pleases our senses

 

[Mainah]

Boy we got deep. Suffice it to say that the average Joe won't be breaking out an electrical oscilloscope and a multi channel sound spectrum analyzer. For the DIY types that think we know what we are doing with this kind of stuff we still don't know what we don't know without an audio engineering degree and decades of experience.

Trust @David Analog and Odin for great advice that everyday Joes can work with. US DIY types need to be careful in considering what we don't know and our audience.

We may needed a new subscription only section for self educated pseudo electrical/audio engineers.

 

[FloJet]

Haha you are right @Mainah. And I hope no one ever thinks I'm an expert in Audio engineering or anything in that realm. I'm just an electronic junkie that likes to experiment with them. Most of what I or friends do are very risky and wouldn't recommend to others. We just like to live on the edge with these things as we are always seeking more power. Like a street racer always trying to make his car that much faster. I tend to learn more when I do it myself. Hate owning something I don't even know the basics of how it operates.

 

[swatski]

Hmmm… that thread is moving fast!

The battery discussion in the original post (5 pages back? LOL) makes me wonder. I don't really need that large of a battery capacity, and likely never will. But if I did, and wanted the most power (“pound—per-pound”) out of my system, I would probably be thinking: lithium-ion anyone?

Those 6V batteries may be impressive, but I see at least two issues that would have me concerned:

1. Requirement for a periodic/semi-annual maintenance. Measuring electrolite density across six of those puppies stuck at the bottom of the storage compartment, each one w/multiple cells, twice a year? Not sure about it… Definitely not for an average Joe, it would backfire rather fast.

2. The added weight. We are talking some 500lbs of lead bricks in a stern compartment of a VERY light boat. That would affect the ride and draft in a major way, potentially listing the boat, too. If this is a party boat and you have a small crowd of (legally permitted) 12 people on board, you might be dragging the rub rail into the water under some seating arrangements which, as we know, leads to water intrusion. That is perfectly okay with me if you are rigging the boat for a wake surfing session but I would not want to cruise around like that all the time.
Not to mention trailering…, and potential issues there. The FRP hulls deform easily, too. And so on...


There are many reasons to look at Li-ion batteries. Those can cycle through their entire capacity without damage, can take a charge must faster than lead-acid batteries. Cycle life? - probably 20x advantage, not to mention the weight difference which is some 4-5 times less per Ah. Not talking about installing a Tesla PowerWall in an AR240 (because it is too tall, LOL), but no self-respecting electric vehicle manufacturer would still use lead acid based battery technologies today. Enough said. Time for the boating community to catch up?

Just saying.

--

 

[Mainah]

@swatski - You nailed it. So why not dump a Prius battery in our boats? $$$$$$$$.

Would be nice though. Once the supply chain catches Elon Musk and Chevy Volt increased demand hopefully prices will come down. Only other downside to lithium ion is cold ambient temperature discharge performance.

 

[swatski]

@swatski - You nailed it. So why not dump a Prius battery in our boats? $$$$$$$$.

Would be nice though. Once the supply chain catches Elon Musk and Chevy Volt increased demand hopefully prices will come down. Only other downside to lithium ion is cold ambient temperature discharge performance.

Thankfully, at least some of us wrap our boats up for the winter!

But more seriously, excellent points, and charging in the cold would also be problematic.
That said, with lead acid there is always the danger of the electrolyte freezing, which can crack the enclosure. Lead acid freezes quicker with a low charge when the specific gravity is more like water than when fully charged.
Like a poorly maintained 6v... . LOL.

--

 

[Firehouse100]

This place is great!!! You guys are making my head spin with all this great input that I will have no idea how I will be putting it to work lol!! I think I will take my Honda eu1000 and strap it to the tower and let her rip. At 60 db I'll never hear it recharging my 12volts lol!

 

[FloJet]

@swatski

1. Well I have an onboard charger so there really is not much maintenance to the batteries during the off season. Not going to lose enough electrolyte over the winter when it's not being used and constantly charged with the onboard charger, at least I don't think.

2. I think the 12v weighs more than the 6v but don't quote me. My 6v batteries weigh 66lbs each, that puts it at 264 lbs. I consider instead of 12 people, 10 people max on the boat. But for my comfort and peace of mind I have a 7 to 8 people rule. Plus most folks I go to lakes with have their own toys so we are never too packed in.

I tried to look at the Li-ion but really couldn't find a it cost effective for me and never seen them in action so really hard to go that route. But now you said something I will def have a look out on them to help make my next more when the time comes.

 

[Josserman]

Spent bourse this morning researching and buying a bunch of battery parts to find out tucked in a corner 3 blocks from me I had an amazing battery place with a ton of tendors, shrink wrap stuff, terminals, a stereo guys dream!

Thinking about 2 of these for now should give me about 70amps for 2hrs, but I’m only running at about 40amp per hour. Will also have a switch to switch back to house battery when they die.


Found an