Cobra VM AK + Lateral Thrusters Ready to go

[MidnightRider]

Finally got around to installing my fins from CobraJet and my Lateral Thrusters from JBP. I like the idea of the fins always down but really wanted to try out the LTs so we'll see how it goes. One thing to mention is I also had the original single fangs so I thought what the hell I'll throw them on. Maybe they'll help by giving a bit of contra-force for lighter steering - maybe even help a little in keeping straight reverse thrust under the boat. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So when I first put the fangs on they obstruct the LTs just slightly, dropping the fang just a bit and re-drilling the rear hole put them just out of the way.

Anyway, good or bad we'll find out this weekend how I like this setup.

 

[Betik]

now that is so GOOD thinking
Please do post an update on how it goes

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

You might have too much control now lol.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Interesting you should try adjusting the fins to the next setting and re think the small fang position as you may be able to place it back in the correct bolt position also it will angle the fins more in live with the hull on plane.

 

[Pinhacker71]

Interested to see how this works. I took the fangs off my cobras and have the lateral thrusters. So far I am liking my setup, but would be nice to integrate my fangs also.

 

[MidnightRider]

Was out at the lake today, low speed control was greatly improved as expected. AKs seemed to work real well at low and high speed for tracking and control. No pulling one way or the other, tracked really straight with hands off the wheel. They are now setup with a slight of toe-in (leading edges angled in) as recommended by Jeff (mine ended up at about 1/8"). The LTs are pretty cool, I didn't have a lot need for tight space maneuvering today but played around with them to feel them out and I think I'm going to like them - time will tell. As far as the single fangs, they certainly didn't hurt anything, I could definitely feel the steering a bit more as expected with the fins in the water but it wasn't bad at all, steering felt pretty light and responsive - so maybe they are helping with that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Maybe I'll pull them off one of these time just to see if there is or how much of affect they are giving. But overall I'm very happy and will be sticking with this setup for now.

 

[MidnightRider]

So interesting follow up on my modified use of the fangs with LTs. Today took the fangs off for a while and ran the setup without the fangs, then put them back on. I wanted to see what effect the fangs had, if any, and if it was worth even having them on. Interesting enough there was really no difference in reverse with them on or off. I also didn't notice much if any "power steering effect"difference. What I did notice however was the steering tracked way straighter with the fangs installed. Without the fangs the steering wanted to pull left fairly hard, with the fangs on it all but eliminated that pull and tracked pretty much straight ahead with hands off the wheel. So not exactly sure why - my only thought is that because of the extend surface in front of the fin, it accentuates the slight toe-in effect that the fins had in the first place, but that is just a guess. None the less it really seems they help with tracking so they are staying on.
The only other thing I may try is moving the fins up to the next mounting hole and putting the fangs on the original mounting holes as Jeff suggested above. I'm kinda curious of the clearance of the LTs in that configuration.

 

[swatski]

So interesting follow up on my modified use of the fangs with LTs. Today took the fangs off for a while and ran the setup without the fangs, then put them back on. I wanted to see what effect the fangs had, if any, and if it was worth even having them on. Interesting enough there was really no difference in reverse with them on or off. I also didn't notice much if any "power steering effect"difference. What I did notice however was the steering tracked way straighter with the fangs installed. Without the fangs the steering wanted to pull left fairly hard, with the fangs on it all but eliminated that pull and tracked pretty much straight ahead with hands off the wheel. So not exactly sure why - my only thought is that because of the extend surface in front of the fin, it accentuates the slight toe-in effect that the fins had in the first place, but that is just a guess. None the less it really seems they help with tracking so they are staying on.
The only other thing I may try is moving the fins up to the next mounting hole and putting the fangs on the original mounting holes as Jeff suggested above. I'm kinda curious of the clearance of the LTs in that configuration.

Do you have one of two fangs per side, are those Megas?
I think that this whole idea of "power steering" is somewhat confusing as it has nothing to do with what you would call it in a car. Here, the fangs/megas essentially counterbalance the bigger (aft) fins (AKs or Ultimates etc.) -
I would endorse similar/same observations/effects you are describing - my steering tracks strait with AKs and megas - I do not need to hold the wheel - while without Megas it feels more squirrely.

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[swatski]

Please keep up you updates, I am very interested in LTs and how they work. I do not understand the excitement about being able to spin the boat on its axis as I can do it very well with no fins whatsoever, lol. But pushing the stern laterally can be handy.

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[MidnightRider]

Do you have one of two fangs per side, are those Megas?
I think that this whole idea of "power steering" is somewhat confusing as it has nothing to do with what you would call it in a car. Here, the fangs/megas essentially counterbalance the bigger (aft) fins (AKs or Ultimates etc.) -
I would endorse similar/same observations/effects you are describing - my steering tracks strait with AKs and megas - I do not need to hold the wheel - while without Megas it feels more squirrely.

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This thread was about using AK fins with LTs. I had put the ORIGINAL SINGLE FANGS on as an experiment to see if I could get any of the power steering affect or straight reverse affect that the fangs have been known to give. I didn't expect much really cause I know that to get the biggest affect you really need to have the Mega Fangs but as you probably know they aren't compatible with the LTs. But decided to add the original single fangs with a slight mod to accommodate the LTs to see if it would give me anything. I totally understand what "power steering" means in this case (I also agree with you that there is wide misunderstanding what that means out there) so that is what I was looking for, was some counter force to counter the slightly stiffer steering that any fins will inevitably will create (which is not bad in my opinion though anyway). Anyway as I was saying neither of the two benefits I was experimenting with gaining were really realized (again I wasn't too surprised cause I know the Mega Fangs are what are really needed to realize these benefits in any great amount). However I was surprised and pleasantly so that the single fangs did improve tracking considerably.

As for the LTs - I got them out of curiosity and thought the concept was a cool idea - wth I'll give them a try. After using them at few times I'm 110% sold on them - they are simply amazing. Its not about the novelty of spinning your boat (ok, maybe at first its fun), it is what you can do with the stern push ability in conjunction with other throttle trickery. Yeah I know you can spin the boat without them, but that is just the tip of iceberg for what these things allow you to do. Every time out I learn some other way to utilize them in my maneuvering (mostly in tight spaces). The other day I was teaching someone to water ski with a strong side wind that kept wanting to push the stern out of alignment with the skier, full turn with small amount of intermittent opposite throttle kept the boat in perfect position without any movement. Yeah a small thing but its one small example in a dozen I could spout off. The first experience in a really narrow landing was using full turn to port with a little opposite reverse throttle alternated with a little opposite forward throttle and the boat literally walked completely sideways 6 feet into the dock without any forward or reverse movement - it was so cool and the faces of people on the dock were priceless. Not saying they are for everyone and also not saying that some wouldn't benefit from Megas instead, just depends on what you want and are looking for. For me and what I want, LTs in conjunction with AK fins/single fangs, are hands down never leaving my boat and will be on any other jet boat I buy in the future.

 

[WetWillie]

The first experience in a really narrow landing was using full turn to port with a little opposite reverse throttle alternated with a little opposite forward throttle and the boat literally walked completely sideways 6 feet into the dock without any forward or reverse movement - it was so cool and the faces of people on the dock were priceless. Not saying they are for everyone and also not saying that some wouldn't benefit from Megas instead, just depends on what you want and are looking for.

This is exactly where I feel the least control over my boat in judging the approach to a dock or another boat to meet up/drop off...
So it sounds like I need to go w/AK’s no fangs and LT’s...

 

[swatski]

This thread was about using AK fins with LTs. I had put the ORIGINAL SINGLE FANGS on as an experiment to see if I could get any of the power steering affect or straight reverse affect that the fangs have been known to give. I didn't expect much really cause I know that to get the biggest affect you really need to have the Mega Fangs but as you probably know they aren't compatible with the LTs. But decided to add the original single fangs with a slight mod to accommodate the LTs to see if it would give me anything. I totally understand what "power steering" means in this case (I also agree with you that there is wide misunderstanding what that means out there) so that is what I was looking for, was some counter force to counter the slightly stiffer steering that any fins will inevitably will create (which is not bad in my opinion though anyway). Anyway as I was saying neither of the two benefits I was experimenting with gaining were really realized (again I wasn't too surprised cause I know the Mega Fangs are what are really needed to realize these benefits in any great amount). However I was surprised and pleasantly so that the single fangs did improve tracking considerably.

As for the LTs - I got them out of curiosity and thought the concept was a cool idea - wth I'll give them a try. After using them at few times I'm 110% sold on them - they are simply amazing. Its not about the novelty of spinning your boat (ok, maybe at first its fun), it is what you can do with the stern push ability in conjunction with other throttle trickery. Yeah I know you can spin the boat without them, but that is just the tip of iceberg for what these things allow you to do. Every time out I learn some other way to utilize them in my maneuvering (mostly in tight spaces). The other day I was teaching someone to water ski with a strong side wind that kept wanting to push the stern out of alignment with the skier, full turn with small amount of intermittent opposite throttle kept the boat in perfect position without any movement. Yeah a small thing but its one small example in a dozen I could spout off. The first experience in a really narrow landing was using full turn to port with a little opposite reverse throttle alternated with a little opposite forward throttle and the boat literally walked completely sideways 6 feet into the dock without any forward or reverse movement - it was so cool and the faces of people on the dock were priceless. Not saying they are for everyone and also not saying that some wouldn't benefit from Megas instead, just depends on what you want and are looking for. For me and what I want, LTs in conjunction with AK fins/single fangs, are hands down never leaving my boat and will be on any other jet boat I buy in the future.

This is hands down the best write up I've seen of the system. Makes a lot of sense.

One potential issue with the LTs, at least in my head, is getting choked up with debris as those are basically large funnels. Wonder if that is really an issue.
(not trying to find new problems that do not exist, however those LTs have not been out very long)

I hope you will keep up your write ups! Very informative!

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[MidnightRider]

This is exactly where I feel the least control over my boat in judging the approach to a dock or another boat to meet up/drop off...
So it sounds like I need to go w/AK’s no fangs and LT’s...

I would definitely recommend trying them out. The LTs alone are really basic concept, they push the stern laterally. Yes, these twin boats are highly maneuverable without them once you experiment with multiple, variations, and configurations of throttle input. What the LTs do is just give you another trick in that tool belt and a highly useful one in my opinion. However, you do need to experiment in conjunction with all your current throttle trickery and learn some new trickery with the LTs involved. Bottom line, its really just about how the LTs can expand the number of various vectors you can simultaneously direct thrust out the back in more directions alone and combined with different throttle setups.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

While I seldom need to suck the stern in to the dock, it could be useful. I think there is way to do it without the LTs but I have not practiced that move. I am more curious what you would loose from the AK/Mega set-up. With that set-up I can pretty much drive in reverse as good as I can in forward... it's like driving a car. Losing that ability would be a 100% deal breaker since I back into every sandbard, and some times I back into a tight spot.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

To move the back sideways just alternate the throttles and once you learn this simple technique with the mega fangs the result is impressive just learn to use the throttles independently, also if you learn to use the throttles you can walk the boat in backward by moving them from neutral and reverse quickly and slightly this also allows you to walk your boat up to a dock in forward as well by using neutral and forward the same way. Remember the mega fangs do a lot more than just add reverse control to your system.

 

[MidnightRider]

I'm not going to get into a discussion what system is best for who. What I have is best for me that is all I claim. I don't talk about the benefits or downsides of Megas because I have never used them. I have no doubt that anyone can learn to do all kinds of cool maneuvers with just using the throttles - I learned to as well BEFORE fins and LTs. But with the LTs you have yet another vector of jet force that you didn't have before, that you can utilize in conjunction with all the other throttle trickery you had before them. Not sure why its so hard to understand that that can better. No, you don't need them, but that doesn't mean that they don't give you a benefit if you have them - they do. As to whether or not the benefit is worth it to you or worth losing the Megas, that is totally personal preference. I can't say the LTs are better than having Megas, I've never used the Megas. All I can say is I love the LTs personally and they are giving me satisfying enough results to where I'm done trying/looking for any other solutions. I do know that I have no complaints with the reverse control or power that I have now once I got used to it coming from years of I/O and O/B - which are totally different animals.

Bottom line.... this should not be about 1 upping each other or about my system is better than your system, this should be about enjoying our boating experience as much as we can. Find a system that fulfills that and stick with it. If you have megas and it makes your boating experience fun and enjoyable, stick with it. If you feel like you need something else to help you enjoy your boating experience more, give something else a try. My only agenda here is to give my personal experience in case that is helpful to others but again if you are happy with your current setup and experience, then awesome and of course stick with it.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

No need to get defensive I was addressing Adrian's post not yours remember I go to a lot of trouble to make my systems compatible with the lateral thrusters I even designed special alternate side force stabilizers that can be used to make past and current Ultimate steering compatible with either system, it's all about what you feel is right for you.
Adrian has never owned a boat period n a d a so for him To get a jet boat as his very first boat and with the assistance of my magnum A k steering and mega fangs feel comfortable driving his boat in forward and reverse backing in strong currents and congested areas as he has mentioned previously speaks volumes.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

I sent Jeff a PM to keep this to the OPs wishes.

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Just a reminder the magnum A K steering is cross compatible with either my mega fangs or the lateral thrusters.
My Ultimate systems can use either if you change the side force stabilizer from the original one to the alternate one however you must contact me for these so I make sure you get the correct parts due to there being old style nozzles and new style nozzles.
The New steering I am planning to release soon will also be cross compatible for either the mega fangs or the lateral thrusters as I have stated several times in the past.
It's all about making the best steering and meeting the customers needs. The choice is yours!

 

[MidnightRider]

No need to get defensive I was addressing Adrian's post not yours remember I go to a lot of trouble to make my systems compatible with the lateral thrusters I even designed special alternate side force stabilizers that can be used to make past and current Ultimate steering compatible with either system, it's all about what you feel is right for you.
Adrian has never owned a boat period n a d a so for him To get a jet boat as his very first boat and with the assistance of my magnum A k steering and mega fangs feel comfortable driving his boat in forward and reverse backing in strong currents and congested areas as he has mentioned previously speaks volumes.

Not trying to be defensive Jeff and wasn't directing that at you specifically, just don't want this to be yet another counter productive thread. To my point, if anyone is happy with Megas, by all means don't switch to something else. Use and setup your boat in whatever way makes your boating experience fun, satisfying, and enjoyable. Posts from people on both sides of this really helped me narrow in on a setup that I'm thrilled with and can't wait each time to get out and use. My post is in hopes to be another one of those type of resources no matter what way anyone would choose to go. Information is power really is true in my book. BTW Jeff, I love the AKs as well!