Deceitful Dealer Tactics

[Brian Griffith]

I've been in the market for a YJB for a few months now and have been doing a lot of research, mostly lurking on this forum and the "other" one. One thing that has me shaking my head lately is the pricing of used YJB's from 2012 on up. I recently contacted a dealer in Phoenix (Boulder Boats) and asked about a 2014 212X that they have for sale. It is listed at 44,995 and has 65 hours on it. Looking at NADA, the "average retail" for that boat should be around 35k.

I e-mailed the dealer asking why they had this particular boat listed 10k above NADA. The dealer sent me back a typical salesmen response "market conditions, boat condition, boat history, blah blah blah. He also included what he claimed to be "their" NADA.



So this salesmen then goes on to say that based on "their" NADA that they have the boat very competitively priced between wholesale and average retail. Even on "their" NADA it showes that MSRP was 48,499 in 2014. But apparently in 2017 with 55 hours this boat's average retail is 48,455. Thats some killer resale value! There is nothing in the dealers ad that suggests this boat is anything more than stock. Obviously the salesman is adding all of the features that Yamaha includes standard as extras in this NADA guide.

So that's my rant and maybe caution to some other new folks around here. For the rest of the forum, please correct me if I am wrong here, I'm really trying to figure out what fair market value is on these boats. My thought is that since everything is included from Yamaha the base "average retail" before adding all the options should be a good starting point? Any good ideas for getting them to drop their asking price? I know everything is negotiable and am a decent negotiator (for cars at least) so I don't doubt I can talk them down 2-4k but I really think we should be talking about 8-11k. I live 8 hours from Phoenix and am not going to make the drive unless they agree to come down significantly before we ever sit down at the negotiating table. Looking at the NADA trade in they likely only paid about 30k for this boat. Thoughts?

 

[Noko]

I bought my boat new but it was a year old. I got it from a dealer and it was marked down about $2K. NADA is just a guide. It helps to set a price but then what the item is sold for is up to the buyer/seller and market conditions. If you think the dealer is full of BS, then don't buy from him. There are lots of places to look for boats for sale. I think boattrader is one, craigslist. You should have an idea from these sites what boats are going for. Watch the dealer and see if he's really selling these boats marked up or not. Most dealers don't want to hold on to older boats because of limited space. Thats why you can get a brand new boat but its last years model marked down some. If you are talking about negotiating a lower price on a new boat, from what I've heard and read, dealers won't drop the price. Most guys have made up money by getting the dealer to toss in extras. It seems that you can negotiate to have additional stuff from the dealer for low cost or free but the sale price of the boat stays the same.

 

[Shuck Water]

When did they start putting 200 cubic foot automatic fire extinguishers on these boats? Also didn't know that a fresh water cooling system was an option.

Total dick move by the dealer. Tell them to feck off.

A little more driving, but here's one right in your price range: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2014-yamaha-212x-102923923/

 

[itsdgm]

Pretty much everything listed on that nada is standard equipment except the boat cover and fire extinguisher. But like @Shuck Water stated, a 100-200 cubic ft system? Jet-a-vator? Trim indicator? Fresh water cooling system? WOW.

Ask the sales guy to send some pics of those upgrades. Curious what they'd send back. a pic of a Fire Engine? Maybe a pic of lake Powel for the fresh water cooling system?

 

[Noko]

I think by, "fresh water cooling system", they mean the lake you are sitting on.

 

[Wake Turbulence]

Very deceitful! I would post bad reviews everywhere I could find them. Those aren't options! Those are factory included! Ha. Even his NADA points to them listing the boat at 38k.

I bought my SX190 brand new in 2014 and the dealer was decent. That was until I had a stress fracture in the engine compartment fiberglass. They refused to fix it. Pretty disappointed considering I noticed it within a week of purchase.

 

[Julian]

Looks like Boulder Boats is not a Yamaha dealer....so perhaps they don't know anything about how these boats are sold.....PERHAPS.....but I'll guess they know they are starting pretty high.....

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

everyone knows a fresh water cooling system is a cooler with ice that you keep your drinking water in

 

[robert843]

Very deceitful! I would post bad reviews everywhere I could find them. Those aren't options! Those are factory included! Ha. Even his NADA points to them listing the boat at 38k.

I bought my SX190 brand new in 2014 and the dealer was decent. That was until I had a stress fracture in the engine compartment fiberglass. They refused to fix it. Pretty disappointed considering I noticed it within a week of purchase.

The hull and deck have a 5 year warranty whether you add the YES warranty or not I would have made them fix this.

8. For Yamaha Boats: the hull and deck on your new vehicle are covered by the Yamaha Boat Hull and Deck Limited Warranty for a period of five (5) years. The Y.E.S. Contract does not provide coverage for the hull and deck

 

[Ronnie]

I talked to my dealer a few years ago about trading in my boat for a newer one and was surprised that they did not use nada to price their boats, they used a proprietary system called BUDS instead. Not surprisingly the BUDS system indicated that my boat and waverunners were worth less than the nada values. The more I think about it the more I believe BUDS is what the rep was smoking when he came up with my trade in values.

 

[WildBillF1]

I bought my boat last year from these guys and would buy from them again. Looks like they have a couple of 212's in their used inventory for comparison. http://boatinglakemead.com/pre-owned-inventory/

 

[Bennie]

The hull and deck have a 5 year warranty whether you add the YES warranty or not I would have made them fix this.

8. For Yamaha Boats: the hull and deck on your new vehicle are covered by the Yamaha Boat Hull and Deck Limited Warranty for a period of five (5) years. The Y.E.S. Contract does not provide coverage for the hull and deck

Please PM me some more info on this. I have two stress cracks and my dealer is telling that are not covered after the initial one year warranty - thanks

 

[robert843]

@Bennie and @Wake Turbulence this is from the Yamaha web site is is mentioned on page 1 and 3.

http://www.yamaha-motor-yes.com/docs/48 State_MTSP_11_0825 EFFECTIVE 12_2011.pdf

 

[robert843]

Now digging a little further into this it appears that they could consider stress cracks an appearance issue if it has no effect on the boat so there is still a chance they could fight you on this but I have seen others on here get them repaired so it sounds like it is based on whether that dealer is willing to go to bat for you.

 

[Brian Griffith]

When did they start putting 200 cubic foot automatic fire extinguishers on these boats? Also didn't know that a fresh water cooling system was an option.

Total dick move by the dealer. Tell them to feck off.

A little more driving, but here's one right in your price range: http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2014-yamaha-212x-102923923/

Haha I didn't even catch the size of the fire extinguisher. That's great. I've looked at that 212X in TX (online) and agree it's price is on par. I need to e mail the seller and ask about salt water use though. I'll likely never use mine in saltwater and I think I'd prefer one that's never seen salt. On a side note, does anyone have experience with the process for buying a boat from a private seller that you financed? I was reading on boat USA about needing to have the boat appraised. Seems like a complicated process especially from 1200 miles away.

 

[Zonie]

Find another dealer or better yet, just keep checking Craigslist. You can use Search Tempest to easily expand your search area.

 

[Brian Griffith]

I talked to my dealer a few years ago about trading in my boat for a newer one and was surprised that they did not use nada to price their boats, they used a proprietary system called BUDS instead. Not surprisingly the BUDS system indicated that my boat and waverunners were worth less than the nada values. The more I think about it the more I believe BUDS is what the rep was smoking when he came up with my trade in values.

Why do I get the feeling that this "BUDS" magic also told them that the boat you wanted to buy from them was worth more than NADA?

 

[Ronnie]

If I'm ever in a position to trade a boat or waverunner in on a new one and the dealer asks what I've got for him, I'm going to respond "nada" and maybe "no hablo getting ripped off".

@Brian Griffith, actually the boat I was looking at was a left over 2011 242ls with 50 demo hours on it. The dealer wanted full msrp of $49k because Yamaha was not allowed to sell 2012s in CA that year (it's was a california air resource noard / CARB thing).

I financed the purchase of my current boat from a private seller 400 miles away who still owed on it. My lender was Essex credit which is backed by bank of the west. The sellers lender was Bank of America. There wasn't a full blown appraisal but my lender did send a rep. over to validate that the boat existed. Generally the banks make sure that all paper work is in order. When all was said and done my lender gave me two cashiers checks, one for Bank of America for the balance owed and the other to the seller for the difference. If I ended up deciding not to buy I could have just returned the checks and paid a small processing fee.

Back on track, the dealer has to make money too if you can't talk them down you can always walk away and take your business elsewhere.

 

[Wake Turbulence]

Now digging a little further into this it appears that they could consider stress cracks an appearance issue if it has no effect on the boat so there is still a chance they could fight you on this but I have seen others on here get them repaired so it sounds like it is based on whether that dealer is willing to go to bat for you.

This is what happened with me. The dealer looked at it and said it didn't effect the boat and the tech said it wouldn't spread in its position so the aren't going to do anything.

 

[Ancient canoe]

I don't consider lowballing or ridiculous high prices to be deceitful dealer tactics. It can be frustrating, and it is nice to find a dealer that doesn't mind skipping the whole song and dance, but a lot of that's on the consumer to research and negotiate. If a dealer thinks he can sell a boat for a ridiculous price and won't budge, move on. The market will either prove him right or wrong.