DRIVE Neutral Steering Assist - 2024 and newer

[Madman]

Having worked years on several teams designing, developing and documenting applications and workflows, the first step always started by outlining the vision and documenting expectations and expected results. We then referred back to these documents to help maintain focus throughout the project. These documents were also used by others to develop training materials and auditing procedures. I mention this because the Yamaha Service Manual clearly states “The function (referring to neutral steering assist) provides the turning ability that is equal to the performance of the models equipped with the conventional Articulating Keel.” It’s an odd statement to think a tech writer would just take it upon themselves to write that because they typically pull their information from project documents. I believe that statement was documented in Yamaha’s scope for this project and somehow dropped through the cracks during development and testing. Based on statement, I’m convinced that the way the DRiVE X system works today is a manufacturing defect.

The good thing is that since the DRiVE X system is electronic and controls both the steering and throttle, so it can probably be remedied through programming. In my mind, when the boat is shifted into neutral, DRiVE X should automatically reverse the inputs and turn the nozzles according, thereby eliminating driver intervention and improving safety and the driving experience. When the boat is put into gear, forward or reverse, the system works as it does under normal conditions.

My reason for purchasing this boat was to get my daughter and her family more involved. DRiVE X was supposed to make things easier, not more complicated. I’ve been working through my dealer with Yamaha support. Last week I forwarded an email outlining my thoughts and concerns and am waiting to hear back. Hoping for good news!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

@TeeNGee does your H model 255 Sport E FSH work like these X boats do at idle ?

 

[TeeNGee]

In neutral, the controls seem reversed. I don't mess with it. I go straight to joystick mode instead.

 

[Madman]

In neutral, the controls seem reversed. I don't mess with it. I go straight to joystick mode instead.

I assume you have helm control? Does it work as well as it seems. I'm hoping that'll be available on the sport boats soon!

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

I assume you have helm control? Does it work as well as it seems. I'm hoping that'll be available on the sport boats soon!

Don’t you have similar controls on your steering wheel?

 

[Madman]

Don’t you have similar controls on your steering wheel?

No, just the paddles behind the steering wheel that control forward and reverse. Also buttons on the wheel to activate Drive and the docking and pivot modes.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

No, just the paddles behind the steering wheel that control forward and reverse. Also buttons on the wheel to activate Drive and the docking and pivot modes.

Okay, I thought there was dock hold too? That would move the boat laterally err no?

 

[Madman]

Okay, I thought there was dock hold too? That would move the boat laterally err no?

Yes, there is dock hold mode as well. I've only used the dock mode to test it but it moves you laterally as long as you hold the button. I've never used the hold button, but I believe it maintains lateral force until you cancel...?

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Yes, there is dock hold mode as well. I've only used the dock mode to test it but it moves you laterally as long as you hold the button. I've never used the hold button, but I believe it maintains lateral force until you cancel...?

Okay, very similar functions to the 255 FSH Sport H model, it just has a joy stick to do those functions..

 

[TommyMcK]

Having worked years on several teams designing, developing and documenting applications and workflows, the first step always started by outlining the vision and documenting expectations and expected results. We then referred back to these documents to help maintain focus throughout the project. These documents were also used by others to develop training materials and auditing procedures. I mention this because the Yamaha Service Manual clearly states “The function (referring to neutral steering assist) provides the turning ability that is equal to the performance of the models equipped with the conventional Articulating Keel.” It’s an odd statement to think a tech writer would just take it upon themselves to write that because they typically pull their information from project documents. I believe that statement was documented in Yamaha’s scope for this project and somehow dropped through the cracks during development and testing. Based on statement, I’m convinced that the way the DRiVE X system works today is a manufacturing defect.

The good thing is that since the DRiVE X system is electronic and controls both the steering and throttle, so it can probably be remedied through programming. In my mind, when the boat is shifted into neutral, DRiVE X should automatically reverse the inputs and turn the nozzles according, thereby eliminating driver intervention and improving safety and the driving experience. When the boat is put into gear, forward or reverse, the system works as it does under normal conditions.

My reason for purchasing this boat was to get my daughter and her family more involved. DRiVE X was supposed to make things easier, not more complicated. I’ve been working through my dealer with Yamaha support. Last week I forwarded an email outlining my thoughts and concerns and am waiting to hear back. Hoping for good news!

Neutral Steering Assist has nothing to do with how the boat behaves at idle when not moving, or moving slowly through the water.

I get that you don't like the behavior of reversed controls while in neutral and while you aren't moving significantly through the water, but Neutral Steering Assist is something entirely different, and it does in fact work.

On boats with articulating keels, if you are coming off of plane and power back to neutral, the keel provides enough bite that you can steer the boat even though the boat is in neutral. On the 255XD, without the keel, you wouldn't get any steering authority at all under that circumstance without neutral steering assist. Since you have the service manual, you can see the curves of automatically commanded engine rpm as a function of speed through the water, and as a function of steering input while in neutral. You will see that it isn't even active at low or no speed. The keel isn't effective at zero speed either. This is mainly a feature that makes sure that you have the ability to avoid something while chopping back on the throttle. I have tried it, it works....can't say it's all that impressive, but you never know, some day I may need it.

But it isn't related to the issue that you have with reversed controls. Unfortunately, given the design of the buckets and nozzles, this is the price you pay for side thrust.

 

[Madman]

Neutral Steering Assist has nothing to do with how the boat behaves at idle when not moving, or moving slowly through the water.

I get that you don't like the behavior of reversed controls while in neutral and while you aren't moving significantly through the water, but Neutral Steering Assist is something entirely different, and it does in fact work.

On boats with articulating keels, if you are coming off of plane and power back to neutral, the keel provides enough bite that you can steer the boat even though the boat is in neutral. On the 255XD, without the keel, you wouldn't get any steering authority at all under that circumstance without neutral steering assist. Since you have the service manual, you can see the curves of automatically commanded engine rpm as a function of speed through the water, and as a function of steering input while in neutral. You will see that it isn't even active at low or no speed. The keel isn't effective at zero speed either. This is mainly a feature that makes sure that you have the ability to avoid something while chopping back on the throttle. I have tried it, it works....can't say it's all that impressive, but you never know, some day I may need it.

But it isn't related to the issue that you have with reversed controls. Unfortunately, given the design of the buckets and nozzles, this is the price you pay for side thrust.

I’ll admit that I could be wrong, it wouldn’t be the first time, but I think I have a pretty good grasp of what’s happening and believe that it’s all tied to the neutral steering assist.

I agree when you say “Neutral Steering Assist has nothing to do with how the boat behaves at IDLE when not moving, or moving slowly through the water.” I highlighted the word IDLE because Neutral Steering Assist only comes into play when the Connext screen shows the boat is actually in Neutral. It’s an important distinction because the boat performs normally when “in gear”.

With Neutral Steering Assist, these boats can actually do pivot turns while still in neutral… and the harder you turn the wheel, the faster the boat spins… but in the opposite direction of the steering wheel. Using (+) No Wake mode to increase the engine speed while still in Neutral, causes the boat to move forward, but the steering controls are still reversed. Just bump the shift into Forward and everything returns to normal.

The following is exactly what the service manual says: “The neutral steering assist function gives the boat the turning ability while the shift is in neutral and the boat is proceeding by inertia. The function provides the turning ability that is equal to the performance of the models equipped with the conventional Articulating Keel. This is achieved by controlling the engine rpm in accordance with the boat speed and the steering angle”.

The first sentence basically says you’ll have turning ability when in neutral. The second sentence is key because it tells you what to expect.

So back to your post, we also agree when you say “On boats with articulating keels, if you are coming off of plane and power back to NEUTRAL, the keel provides enough bite that you can steer the boat even though the boat is in neutral. On the 255XD, without the keel, you wouldn't get any steering authority at all under that circumstance without neutral steering assist.” However, if you’re initiating a right turn while coming off plane and move the control to neutral, the boat with an articulating keel will continue to move right. Doing the exact same maneuver with Neutral Steering Assist causes the boat to start turning left, which is my entire point. That behavior is not consistent with the second sentence from the service manual and once I realized that, I became more convinced that the way Neutral Steering is working today is not what Yamaha intended.

I understand the mechanics as to why it’s doing this, but it doesn’t make any of it “normal”. And as I said earlier, this seems to be a programming error that could be easily remedied.

The funny thing is that if I could have just turned the neutral steering assist off, I would have and would never would have given it a second thought. But for some reason that switch isn’t working, which has caused me to go down this rabbit hole. But know that I think I know how the system is supposed to work, I think it could be an awesome feature that will complement the DRiVE X features.

 

[TommyMcK]

However, if you’re initiating a right turn while coming off plane and move the control to neutral, the boat with an articulating keel will continue to move right. Doing the exact same maneuver with Neutral Steering Assist causes the boat to start turning left, which is my entire point. That behavior is not consistent with the second sentence from the service manual and once I realized that, I became more convinced that the way Neutral Steering is working today is not what Yamaha intended.

Actually, with neutral steering assist engaged, it behaves exactly as you'd expect when moving through the water. Right hand steering input turns the bow to the right and vice-versa. It's giving forward thrust even though the controls are in neutral. Try playing with it. Engine RPM increases even though you aren't commanding it. It behaves exactly as described in the service manual and exactly as you'd expect with an articulating keel.

Again, I understand that the behavior when stationary isn't what you want, but it is independent of the neutral steering assist, which isn't active at all when you don't have a forward path through the water.

While I understand (and even agree) that the behavior isn't ideal, at the end of the day it isn't hard to overcome. Also, when backing into a space, it's actually preferable.

 

[Madman]

Actually, with neutral steering assist engaged, it behaves exactly as you'd expect when moving through the water. Right hand steering input turns the bow to the right and vice-versa. It's giving forward thrust even though the controls are in neutral. Try playing with it. Engine RPM increases even though you aren't commanding it. It behaves exactly as described in the service manual and exactly as you'd expect with an articulating keel.

Again, I understand that the behavior when stationary isn't what you want, but it is independent of the neutral steering assist, which isn't active at all when you don't have a forward path through the water.

While I understand (and even agree) that the behavior isn't ideal, at the end of the day it isn't hard to overcome. Also, when backing into a space, it's actually preferable.

A bit confused now! lol. Are you talking about steering behavior when using the DRiVE X paddles. I’ll need to look, but my assumption(?) is that squeezing the paddles puts the boat in gear and it does respond as expected. When loading the boat on the trailer, I try to keep slight pressure on the forward paddle to so the controls stay consistent. If the weather cooperates, I take a closer look at it this week.

Are you able to toggle Neutral Steering Assist Off and On in the DRiVE X menu? If so, can you tell me how? I’ve tried the processes outlined in both the Owner’s Manual and the Service Manual with zero luck.

If this turns out to normal behavior, I’ll be hitting the boat shows again this year.

 

[TommyMcK]

A bit confused now! lol. Are you talking about steering behavior when using the DRiVE X paddles. I’ll need to look, but my assumption(?) is that squeezing the paddles puts the boat in gear and it does respond as expected. When loading the boat on the trailer, I try to keep slight pressure on the forward paddle to so the controls stay consistent. If the weather cooperates, I take a closer look at it this week.

Are you able to toggle Neutral Steering Assist Off and On in the DRiVE X menu? If so, can you tell me how? I’ve tried the processes outlined in both the Owner’s Manual and the Service Manual with zero luck.

If this turns out to normal behavior, I’ll be hitting the boat shows again this year.

The behavior (reversed controls when in neutral and little motion through the water) is the same if you are using the paddles or the throttle. In paddle mode, "neutral" is when you aren't actively pulling on either paddle, and the boat stern will move in the opposite direction to the steering input.

Are you saying that you don't see the setting in the DRiVE X menu? Mine appears just like it shows in the operating manual. The function is toggled on and off by using the slider on the screen.

Unless you specifically try to induce the conditions in which it kicks in, you won't notice any difference. It's actually hard to catch since the boat quickly decelerates through the speeds in which Neutral Steering Assist is actually active. You would never notice neutral steering assist when loading on a trailer since the speed is too slow to have it engaged.

 

[Madman]

The behavior (reversed controls when in neutral and little motion through the water) is the same if you are using the paddles or the throttle. In paddle mode, "neutral" is when you aren't actively pulling on either paddle, and the boat stern will move in the opposite direction to the steering input.

Are you saying that you don't see the setting in the DRiVE X menu? Mine appears just like it shows in the operating manual. The function is toggled on and off by using the slider on the screen.

Unless you specifically try to induce the conditions in which it kicks in, you won't notice any difference. It's actually hard to catch since the boat quickly decelerates through the speeds in which Neutral Steering Assist is actually active. You would never notice neutral steering assist when loading on a trailer since the speed is too slow to have it engaged.

@TommyMcK Thank you for your time and patience. Now I'm not sure whether I'm more confused or more pissed off. If it's supposed to work as you say, this is the most ass backwards thing ever conceived. Meanwhile, I'll continue hoping that you're wrong and keep pursing a fix through Yamaha...

I found the Neutral Steering Assist in the menu and have tried toggling been off and on, but hadn't noticed any changes, but then again, I may have been looking for the wrong indicators. Since I've been having problems with the depth finder and a couple other display items, I assumed the switch wasn't working. I've tried cycling the batteries off and on and it fixed the other things, but I lost them again when I clicked the button to restore factory settings. So I've cycled the batteries again and will see if it worked the next time out.

In the meantime, are you saying that you're coming off plane and moving the shifter to neutral, the boat will continue tracking in the same direction? I've tried that, but the boat always begins turning in the opposite direction. I haven't noticed any changes in engine speed either, but will pay closer attention to that the next time out. If the system is off, what would be the difference be?

 

[TommyMcK]

@TommyMcK Thank you for your time and patience. Now I'm not sure whether I'm more confused or more pissed off. If it's supposed to work as you say, this is the most ass backwards thing ever conceived. Meanwhile, I'll continue hoping that you're wrong and keep pursing a fix through Yamaha...

I found the Neutral Steering Assist in the menu and have tried toggling been off and on, but hadn't noticed any changes, but then again, I may have been looking for the wrong indicators. Since I've been having problems with the depth finder and a couple other display items, I assumed the switch wasn't working. I've tried cycling the batteries off and on and it fixed the other things, but I lost them again when I clicked the button to restore factory settings. So I've cycled the batteries again and will see if it worked the next time out.

In the meantime, are you saying that you're coming off plane and moving the shifter to neutral, the boat will continue tracking in the same direction? I've tried that, but the boat always begins turning in the opposite direction. I haven't noticed any changes in engine speed either, but will pay closer attention to that the next time out. If the system is off, what would be the difference be?

Hi @Madman . The way that neutral steering assist is supposed to work (and the way it in fact does seem to work) is that it gives you some steering control when you back off of the throttle into neutral while the boat has forward motion. An articulating keel doesn't give you any steering control when you are stationary, and they neither does the neutral steering assist. Mainly, I think that they are trying to solve the problem where you may find that you are in danger of hitting something, but you want to back off of the throttle as part of trying to avoid a collision. Without an articulating keel, the boat won't change direction at all when you move the wheel, so they use a measure of your speed and the amount of steering input that you are providing to automatically provide enough forward thrust to maintain directional control. The controls aren't reversed in when neutral steering assist kicks in.

It won't kick in while docking though, and it isn't surprising that you haven't seen a difference with it off vs on. Personally, in practice, I never back off the throttle all the way to neutral while slowing down from on-plane. I smoothly back off of the throttle to 2500 rpm, which is typically about 6mph, and I have all of the control I need, so practically, I don't think that the feature has much value. And the boat decelerates so quickly when you put it in neutral that there is only a very short period of time that the system is active even if you do chop the throttle.

But again, this isn't related to the issue that you are having with reversed controls at the ramp. That is a likely unintended design "feature" of the bucket design. My guess is that the DRiVE X system was conceived originally for joystick control. In that case, you probably have the wheel centered and use the joystick to simultaneously control lateral and forward motion. On our boats though, that would require simultaneously using the left-right buttons, the left-right paddles and the spin control. Not a workable solution. I have no idea why they didn't add the joystick to the SD and XD models.

 

[Madman]

Hi @Madman . The way that neutral steering assist is supposed to work (and the way it in fact does seem to work) is that it gives you some steering control when you back off of the throttle into neutral while the boat has forward motion. An articulating keel doesn't give you any steering control when you are stationary, and they neither does the neutral steering assist. Mainly, I think that they are trying to solve the problem where you may find that you are in danger of hitting something, but you want to back off of the throttle as part of trying to avoid a collision. Without an articulating keel, the boat won't change direction at all when you move the wheel, so they use a measure of your speed and the amount of steering input that you are providing to automatically provide enough forward thrust to maintain directional control. The controls aren't reversed in when neutral steering assist kicks in.

It won't kick in while docking though, and it isn't surprising that you haven't seen a difference with it off vs on. Personally, in practice, I never back off the throttle all the way to neutral while slowing down from on-plane. I smoothly back off of the throttle to 2500 rpm, which is typically about 6mph, and I have all of the control I need, so practically, I don't think that the feature has much value. And the boat decelerates so quickly when you put it in neutral that there is only a very short period of time that the system is active even if you do chop the throttle.

But again, this isn't related to the issue that you are having with reversed controls at the ramp. That is a likely unintended design "feature" of the bucket design. My guess is that the DRiVE X system was conceived originally for joystick control. In that case, you probably have the wheel centered and use the joystick to simultaneously control lateral and forward motion. On our boats though, that would require simultaneously using the left-right buttons, the left-right paddles and the spin control. Not a workable solution. I have no idea why they didn't add the joystick to the SD and XD models.

Unfortunately your explanation makes sense… in a very twisted kind of way, and I agree that feature has very little value IF it works as you’ve described (sorry, I just can’t give up hope that there’s a better answer!). This whole thing is a missed opportunity because I think Yamaha has all of the pieces there for much better solution. Unfortunately, I didn’t see a joystick for the 2026 model.

As Danny Glover said in Lethal Weapon, “I’m getting too old for this shit!”

 

[TommyMcK]

Unfortunately your explanation makes sense… in a very twisted kind of way, and I agree that feature has very little value IF it works as you’ve described (sorry, I just can’t give up hope that there’s a better answer!). This whole thing is a missed opportunity because I think Yamaha has all of the pieces there for much better solution. Unfortunately, I didn’t see a joystick for the 2026 model.

As Danny Glover said in Lethal Weapon, “I’m getting too old for this shit!”

Well, I notice that the new 29’ “D” dual console models have the joystick control, so there is that. Only an extra $100K…. And you get to sleep in the head if you are so inclined