Ecoboost towing question

[hamsammy]

How many miles do you have on it? I used to have an F-150 ecoboost and experienced the shuddering problem from time or two. Shorly thereafter, it started throwing codes saying that my timing was over-advanced on two of the 4 camshafts. Got a quote that it was going to be $4-5K to repair, so I ditched it for a Silverado. While I do miss the torque of the ecoboost, my fuel economy has gone up by nearly 5 MPG.

 

[dnicholas47]

It has 88,000 miles. I bought it at 75,000. The shudder has been there for a while, but the light and loss of power towing a couple weeks ago was a first. I will say since I changed the plugs I have picked up almost 3 mpg. I have averaged 19.4 since changing everything out. It is just that annoying shaking like a manual transmission that needs to downshift but the driver won't.

 

[seabrooktx]

We have a 2015 Expedition EL 4x4. We purchased it new and haven’t put too many miles on it (~45k), but do tow a fairly heavy trailer (~7k lbs) from time to time on extended highway trips.

A few known issues that I am aware of on these units:

- You may take it to Ford and get a PCM/TCM update. We had some harsh shifts and transmission searching that would occur. The PCM/TCM updates seemed to fix that. Ours was done under warranty, but typical dealer charge is ~$90.
- If it’s 4x4, then there are some isolated transfer case issues. During warmup and initial driving, the vehicle will engage the transfer case to warm up. There have been a few known cases of the transfer case causing issues/going out around the 75 - 100k miles mark. This sometimes would cause some drivetrain problems.
- There is also isolated issues with the direct injection ONLY engines (2011 - 2016 Ecoboost 3.5’s) and the crankcase breather coking up the valves. Several people have installed Catch-Cans to alleviate this, but if your valves are all caked up that can cause some issues. If I remember correctly, if you have a bore scope you can look into there. Last time I checked, there’s not many approved solutions for that other than replace the heads, but again, doesn’t seem to be a widespread issue. That’s one of the reasons why ford updated the engines to include direct and port injection in the later models.
- One other thing not mentioned here yet is the potential for a faulty or failing injector. You may want to make sure you change the fuel filter to make sure its not starving for fuel.

If you pull the codes, that would point you in the right direction.

Overall, we have been really happy with our expedition and it tows great with plenty of power. The engines are fairly robust, so once you figure out the problem, you should have a great tow vehicle.

 

[dnicholas47]

Took it to a dealer. No codes thrown. They changed the transmission fluid, but the shudder is still there. When I changed the plugs and coils it seemed to go away until I got on the highway. Now, 2 weeks later it is back. Tech said he thought it was a torque converter due to the problem only occurring in 4th, 5th and 6th gear at low rpm under light throttle. He very well may be right, and I would agree 100% if the problem didn’t seem to clear up with the plug change, albeit temporarily. I cleaned the MAP sensors last night. One was nasty, but it didn’t solve the problem. I think I’m going to try and drill the hole. If it works great, if it doesn’t I can seal it. But before I do that I figured I would see what you guys thought?

 

[Just Phishing]

Drill the hole all kinds of oil vapor and water builds up in there. also post a video next time you are towing.

 

[Jameson Clark]

Took it to a dealer. No codes thrown. They changed the transmission fluid, but the shudder is still there. When I changed the plugs and coils it seemed to go away until I got on the highway. Now, 2 weeks later it is back. Tech said he thought it was a torque converter due to the problem only occurring in 4th, 5th and 6th gear at low rpm under light throttle. He very well may be right, and I would agree 100% if the problem didn’t seem to clear up with the plug change, albeit temporarily. I cleaned the MAP sensors last night. One was nasty, but it didn’t solve the problem. I think I’m going to try and drill the hole. If it works great, if it doesn’t I can seal it. But before I do that I figured I would see what you guys thought?

I still think it is an ignition problem. You only feel it at low RPMs in those gears because you have the motor and ignition system under the biggest load there. Once it downshifts or comes out of lock-up, the load goes away. Did you ask them to look at Mode 6 data? That is the misfire counter and, for some reason, a bunch of Ford techs don't even know about it. We used to diagnose most ignition misfires in 6th gear up a grade lugging the motor, that's when they really show their face.

Drill the hole if you want but I still don't think you are doing anything but creating a boost leak by doing it. One 5 second WOT pull will empty whatever is in the intercooler and if it does it again right after that, it pretty much can't be that. If it was mine, I would pull all the plugs back out and look for any carbon tracking on them. If none found, put them back in and buy another new coil and start the swapping process I talked about earlier.

 

[dnicholas47]

This was a friend of a friend that did the code check, etc. Not sure if he did more 6 or not. Would you know where I could go to at that done? Auto parts store or does it have to be a dealer?

 

[Jameson Clark]

This was a friend of a friend that did the code check, etc. Not sure if he did more 6 or not. Would you know where I could go to at that done? Auto parts store or does it have to be a dealer?

Regular obd code checker won't do it and a slight miss like that will take FOREVER to actually trip a light. You would need access to IDS (dealer) or a high end scanner by Snap on, etc. to look at Mode 6 Data or to do a power balance. Either test should point you right at which cylinder is the problem.

 

[dnicholas47]

Thanks. Reached out to a cousin who does imports, but has that scanner. Hopefully I can get that hooked up in the next day or two. This shuddering is driving me insane, and the thought of an 8 hour drive feeling a rumble strip every 10–20 seconds doesn’t sound fun.

 

[ncnmra]

I've read that the Ecoboost engines are susceptible to carbon buildup. Mostly because the direct injection prevents the valves from getting cleaned.

 

[ncnmra]

Interesting....I just searched youtube for "Ecoboost carbon buildup", and this video came up:

 

[dnicholas47]

Had it hooked up to a shop scanner. No codes. We drove it around while hooked up, and it shuddered, but no codes. Cousin agreed it sounds like torque converter based on where the noise comes from. Taking it to a transmission shop ASAP for a flush to see if that cures it. Thanks again for all the tips and saving me from drilling holes out of desperation.

 

[Jameson Clark]

Had it hooked up to a shop scanner. No codes. We drove it around while hooked up, and it shuddered, but no codes. Cousin agreed it sounds like torque converter based on where the noise comes from. Taking it to a transmission shop ASAP for a flush to see if that cures it. Thanks again for all the tips and saving me from drilling holes out of desperation.

If you're convinced it is the torque converter, go to a Ford dealership parts dept and buy two bottles of friction modifier and add those to the transmission fluid. Drive and see if the concern changes.

 

[Jgorm]

Tc shudder was my first guess. Add a bottle of dr shudder, not friction modifiers. Friction modifiers for diffs is lubricant so the clutches don't chatter. I had bad tc shudder on my vic. Did a full flush, manual not the crap machine, changed the filter, and added dr shudder and it fixed it 100%. 20k+ miles ago without issue.

 

[Jameson Clark]

Tc shudder was my first guess. Add a bottle of dr shudder, not friction modifiers. Friction modifiers for diffs is lubricant so the clutches don't chatter. I had bad tc shudder on my vic. Did a full flush, manual not the crap machine, changed the filter, and added dr shudder and it fixed it 100%. 20k+ miles ago without issue.

PS - Dr. shudder is a knock off friction modifier.

 

[Jameson Clark]

I'm not saying it isn't torque converter shudder. But, that was extremely common in the old 4r70 transmissions of the 90s-00s. Really don't see that anymore. But any friction modifier (knock off shudder fixes in the parts stores) isn't gonna hurt anything anyway and it is cheap to try, so why not.

 

[dnicholas47]

Thanks guys! I previously looked at the Dr. Tranny stuff, but due to my limited ability in the wrench turning department, I was afraid to try it because it was supposed to be added through the dipstick, which I thought didn’t exist on these engines.

 

[Jameson Clark]

Thanks guys! I previously looked at the Dr. Tranny stuff, but due to my limited ability in the wrench turning department, I was afraid to try it because it was supposed to be added through the dipstick, which I thought didn’t exist on these engines.

Yep, gotta be pumped in through the pan.

 

[dnicholas47]

Picked up the boat today to prep for a trip this weekend. I’ll be damned if it didn’t shudder one time in 37 miles. Normally would have been every 10-20 seconds. It was still doing it on the way there, so it isn’t cured, but I feel like we are making progress. Still going to do the transmission flush it and the shop actually suggested the Dr. Tranny stuff too so hopefully that solves the problem without needing a new TC.

 

[Levi Weatherford]

Picked up the boat today to prep for a trip this weekend. I’ll be damned if it didn’t shudder one time in 37 miles. Normally would have been every 10-20 seconds. It was still doing it on the way there, so it isn’t cured, but I feel like we are making progress. Still going to do the transmission flush it and the shop actually suggested the Dr. Tranny stuff too so hopefully that solves the problem without needing a new TC.

I had this exact same issue with my 2015 F150 Eco last year. At 35K miles I was getting TC shudder at highway speeds under light load. My shop put in a bottle of Motorcraft friction modifier and told me to run it for a week I think. Maybe it was only 3 days. I can't remember. I brought it back in and he performed a full flush with his machine. 15,000 miles later and it has been flawless.