Hard (re)starting list-side engine (ballasted AR240, wake surfing)

[swatski]

Wonder if anyone experienced that?

I seem to recall there was a thread on a 230 wake surfing - with a hard to restart surf-side engine after a long pause in surfing. I can not find it...

Exactly what I've experienced - hard to restart the list-side engine - after a long-ish break while wake surfing, 15+ min. Boat is a 2016 AR240, the (port side in my case) 1.8l engine will restart but only after multiple attempts - cranking for few seconds and giving it a minute or so break not to fry the starter. I think I smell raw gasoline but wouldn't swear by it. Never a problem with those engines otherwise. Start on first crank every time.

I'm not going to stop surfing, so need to figure it out (or will need to keep idling or empty the ballast in between sessions). If I keep the engines idling everything is nice and smooth, but I would prefer to be able to turn the engine(s) off without emptying the ballast every time.

Any ideas where to look, or what to look for?

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[Scottintexas]

What would your guess be for how many degrees you are listed
And how much of rear is in water
Wouldn't think your pickup is the issue but maybe gravity taking it from fuel rail?

 

[swatski]

And how much of rear is in water

It can be fairly modest, as in those pics below w/about 2,500-3,000lbs. Waterline just up to the rub rail, but not even submerged.
(below - underway, bottom - stationary)




I have had it ballasted more than in those pics, but this (above) is enough to give me that hard start issue. I'm a bit surprised by it. Granted, this may be about 2-3 times the weight of factory 242X ballast, but I would not call it extreme... by any stretch.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

I would think it may have something to do with exhaust back pressure, when the engine is running it is making more of that since that side is further under water and that is probably making it run rich because it can't breath correctly but it continues to run, however when you turn it off it would allow more water in the exhaust and even more pressure , since the plugs are running rich they won't fire correctly and flood the engine more. That or maybe you have the wrong color shirt on.

 

[2nazt]

Could you try priming the fuel system a second time before starting? Or try the blower first to cool area down prior?

 

[bobbie]

We too sometimes that have one engine takes a bit more to start. We've never not been able to get it started. I'll pay attention which engine it is next time we're out. @swatski

 

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Just remember both engines are at the same angle regardless so it can't be the angle of the engine as it would effect both engines equally. Just remember the old trick sticking a potato in a cars exhaust pipe will keep it from running same principal .

 

[swatski]

I would think it may have something to do with exhaust back pressure, when the engine is running it is making more of that since that side is further under water and that is probably making it run rich because it can't breath correctly but it continues to run, however when you turn it off it would allow more water in the exhaust and even more pressure , since the plugs are running itch they won't fire correctly and flood the engine more. That or maybe you have the wrong color shirt on.

Just remember both engines are at the same angle regardless so it can't be the angle of the engine as it would effect both engines equally. Just remember the old trick sticking a potato in a cars exhaust pipe will keep it from running same principal .

That sounds convincing.
Unfortunately, that also means there would be no easy work around, will just need to:
1. keep idling, or 2. empty the ballast when stopped for more than few minutes.

Unless - 3. I stick a potato in the list-side exhaust (or use any plug really)... I'm only half kidding, actually, wouldn't be too difficult of a mod to try at all.

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[swatski]

Jeff, @Cobra Jet Steering LLC I think I'm going to test that idea, actually. This may work.

EDIT: not going to use a potato, but I can find/make a plug or a snorkel, just to keep water from intruding into the exhaust on that lower side (usually port for me) when stationary.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

Some sort of snorkel would work but then you have carbon monoxide issues for the surfer so you would need to keep that in mind also I wonder if a pipe shaped like a sink trap would work it could catch air in it if it went up high enough and then curve down back into the water just 6 inches or so to put the exhaust back under the water just not really low.

 

[swatski]

Some sort of snorkel would work but then you have carbon monoxide issues for the surfer so you would need to keep that in mind also

Yes. I totally agree!
I wouldn't want to run with it but rather something to use ONLY when the engine is off. Strictly to prevent water intrusion.

Unless I pointed a snorkel down like the FAE (fresh air exhaust) in ski/wake boats. But that maybe overthinking it.

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[swatski]

Jeff - thank you. I think this is the explanation. And a plug is probably going to work. I really appreciate, it's been bugging the crap out of me.

Potato in a car exhaust pipe (mimicked by water creeping into the water boxes, reducing exhaust volume and choking it). I'll be darned - I think that is it.

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[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

That may work , here is the deal water is very heavy so putting the exhaust so much further under the water is definitely effecting the engines ability to breath , what you may try is attach a pipe or snorkel to the exhaust port after shutting the engine down and removing it as soon as you start the engine this may work even if water gets in the pipe if it is above the water level the initial start up will blow out the water from the pipe and let the engine start then you remove it to use the boat once more

 

[robert843]

Hmmm I think I know the solution to the problem it is a fairly costly mod but I'm sure it would solve the issue I have included a pic of the mod below.

 

[swatski]

Hmmm I think I know the solution to the problem it is a fairly costly mod but I'm sure it would solve the issue I have included a pic of the mod below.

View attachment 57293

hahahaha How do I rate UN-creative???

Seriously though, sure that would work. To an extent. But - how would you take her to Bimini???
Not to mention my shallow river where I play - and all that time she would be spending, alone, sitting on top on a lift when the water is a touch too low.

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[robert843]

hahahaha How do I rate UN-creative???

Seriously though, sure that would work. To an extent. But - how would you take her to Bimini???
Not to mention my shallow river where I play - and all that time she would be spending, alone, sitting on top on a lift when the water is a touch too low.

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Well that is why I called it a mod and not a replacement I'm not saying replace your boat but add to the collection my good sir. I have never wake surfed but would love to try some day but ocean surfed for many years and had both a long and short board as both applied for various wave conditions same thing applies here

 

[swatski]

Well that is why I called it a mod and not a replacement I'm not saying replace your boat but add to the collection my good sir. I have never wake surfed but would love to try some day but ocean surfed for many years and had both a long and short board as both applied for various wave conditions same thing applies here

Now - that is creative!!! lol.

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[haknslash]

Every time I see a Supra boat I drool. They are just dead sexy!

 

[mraz72]

other ski boats have the exhaust empty into the water correct? How do they accomplish that, for example, if you car's exhaust going underwater and you turn off the engine, you probably won't get it started again.

 

[Rod5]

Funny you bring this up... I've been fighting hard to start engines from almost day one! Of course never in front of the dealer... Last year it was always the starboard engine that would once or twice, sometime during the day, crank and crank and not even fire especially for several 15 seconds of cranking after prolong floating, engines off, but with the key on for stereo. (e-series boat) Dealer told me to turn the key off each time we kill the motors (instead of kill by push buttons) to float around which seemed to help and eliminated most (95%) of the issue last year. Started using the ctl or light button to boot up Connex with key off to play stereo while floating...

However this year I've noticed on several occasions the Port engine is stubborn to start even if the key has been turned off. It tries to start, fires on one or two cyl then shuts off. Sometimes 3 or 4 times in a row. So far the solution has been to do sort of a reset by turning the key back off for 10 seconds or so, then begin Connext boot up again and so far it fires right up as if nothing every happened. Its all been very intermittent with varying degrees of run time, float time, or just a quick shut down for pee break etc...

No listing of our boat during all the above, half of us surf on Port and half surf Goofy so we always weight the boat evenly...

But I do Love that Supra as a solution, except for taking it to PCB or up the shallow creek to our waterfall & BBQ spot.