Hauling your boat

[BlkGS]

Depending on how it's equipped it can tow up to 7650lbs, I have the Rubicon and it's rated to tow 7000lbs.

Maybe I'm thinking of the unlimited then.

 

[BlkGS]

Here’s a screen shot from Yamahas website…

View attachment 194382

With a full tank of fuel sitting on the trailer the boat and trailer weigh 5674#.

Tow ratings include people and cargo-in the vehicle and the hitch weight of the trailer, so depending on how many people are in the tow vehicle, let’s say 4 @ an average weight of 180# each add an additional 720# which brings it up to 6394#. Add in 500# of gear including and ice chest it’s up to 6894#. I’d say you need a tow vehicle with a 7500# tow rating minimum, 8000# would be better as it will provide extra cargo capacity in the tow vehicle for taking a trip, or more people.

This predicament is what has given me pause about explorer st for my sx230. It "technically" meets it at 5600lbs... But when you add snacks, ice, coolers, people... Gets hairy quick. Like could be over, could be at the limit, depends how much gas is in the boat hairy.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Expedition doesn't offer AWD, only 4x4. It has auto 4wd, which has a little delay in working. You have put it into 4x4 manually though.

All versions of the 3.5L Ecoboost are the same currently. The difference in ho and torque is purely tune. You can buy a tuner from several places that will give you more power than the raptor if needed. 500 crank HP out of just a tune is pretty easy, and "safe".

Thanks for the post… anymore though I won’t put any kind of a turn on my vehicles. And any of the reflash tuners will leave a foot print in the ECU. All the manufacturers got wise to the tuners and got tired of fixing things under warranty caused by high output tunes.

The great thing about turbochargers is their ability to harness the energy that would otherwise go out the exhaust, with no parasitic losses like a supercharger. Great economy if you keep your foot out of it, yet plenty of power when when you do put your foot in it.

 

[Thermobrett]

We have a 2022 SX195 we tow with a 2022 GMC Yukon XL 5.3l. Used to tow the boat with a 2015 Kia Sedona minivan. Not bad on city streets and the ramp but bad on the freeway. Couldn’t get it above 50mph.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

This predicament is what has given me pause about explorer st for my sx230. It "technically" meets it at 5600lbs... But when you add snacks, ice, coolers, people... Gets hairy quick. Like could be over, could be at the limit, depends how much gas is in the boat hairy.

Yep!

Just got an email from Ford the other day announcing their tow capacity calculator on their website. Once registered the app uses your vin and you put in the type of trailer, passenger, cargo, accessory weight and the app spits out the the max tongue weight and trailer weight. Hopefully that migrates to the phone app…that’s a very handy tool for the owner to have, and most importantly for the original poster of this thread, they can have their salesman pull this up and put in the VIN for the buyer and plug in the numbers to see exactly what that vehicle is rated to tow.

I have a SRW Crew Cab 4x4 diesel and it’s down right amazing what it is rated for.. for a standard trailer it’s 2000# of tongue weight and 20,000# trailer weight. Amazing.

 

[BlkGS]

Thanks for the post… anymore though I won’t put any kind of a turn on my vehicles. And any of the reflash tuners will leave a foot print in the ECU. All the manufacturers got wise to the tuners and got tired of fixing things under warranty caused by high output tunes.

The great thing about turbochargers is their ability to harness the energy that would otherwise go out the exhaust, with no parasitic losses like a supercharger. Great economy if you keep your foot out of it, yet plenty of power when when you do put your foot in it.

I THINK Ford offers one on their own that is warranty compliant. They do for explorer at least.

If the expedition has taught me anything it's that they could be putting an NA v6 in these and get great fuel economy. Around town, our expedition never sees boost. It does get into boost on the highway, especially if you go to pass. It's also kinda surprisingly quick in those situations, likely because I'm so used to it being out of boost all the time.

Oh, other perk. Runs on regular. The 375hp figure is on 87, the 400ish HP figures from navigator and others are on premium. Same tune, just different fuel requirements.to make that number. So if you fill up with premium, it adjusts power up, not that you can really tell the difference.

 

[2kwik4u]

Another thing to note is if you get in an accident with an overloaded vehicle you insurance doesn't have to cover you.

This is incorrect. By a long shot.

Your insurance covers you in the event of a loss or liability. They give rather low craps about it being either by bad luck or by bad decisions.

Reference liability coverage for drunk drivers.

 

[MrBubbaGump]

This is incorrect. By a long shot.

Your insurance covers you in the event of a loss or liability. They give rather low craps about it being either by bad luck or by bad decisions.

Reference liability coverage for drunk drivers.

This is not a hard set rule, but it is true you may not be covered. Most insurance policies have clauses that allow for the company not to pay on claims if the damages were caused because of intentional actions on the part of the insured. If they can show that you knew or reasonably should have known that you were engaging in conduct that is, on it's face, illegal or negligent, then the liability lies entirely with you personally, and they'll likely not pay. In a case such as this where you are either knowingly or should have reasonably known that you are exceeding the stated design limitations of the vehicle and cause an accident its likely that you would not be covered. Additionally you could also incur criminal and civil liability's if you injure someone and they sue you.

A quick google search lead me to an attorney's site, see below for their interpretation.

"Insurance may not Cover Damages

Generally speaking, insurance companies are supposed to cover any damage that is done to your car in an accident. However, the insurance may not cover the damages if an overloaded vehicle caused the accident. The reason? Because, given the facts, it may well be illegal to overload your vehicle." - Wagner Law

 

[WV Hillbilly]

Be on the safe side. Over engineer everything. I tow with this…. Ok, way over engineered…

 

[Ronnie]

I drove a 2019 expedition max once and loved it it had a twin turbo v6 and 10 to 12 forward gears. Also had a towing mode with an electric brake actuator and a check list on the display. I’m pretty sure it would out accelerate my 2010 limited with an NA v 8. If you are on a budget you should be an able to get a 2010 for around $15k, a 2013 for $17k v a new loaded up exped for $80k to $90k, add $10k for a comparable navigator.

 

[eastcoaster]

Fish 210 said -Tow ratings includes people and cargo-in the vehicle and the hitch weight of the trailer. That is not your tow rating but is included in your GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. Two different [HASH=571]#s.[/HASH] Tow rating only includes the weight of what you are towing such as trailer and boat combined with what ever is in it. In reality you can exceed our GCWR while still being within your vehicles tow rating. This is why tow rating of vehicles is often a marketing tool while in reality you can never get close to your advertised tow rating and still be within the parameters of your vehicle.

 

[BlkGS]

I drove a 2019 expedition max once and loved it it had a twin turbo v6 and 10 to 12 forward gears. Also had a towing mode with an electric brake actuator and a check list on the display. I’m pretty sure it would out accelerate my 2010 limited with an NA v 8. If you are on a budget you should be an able to get a 2010 for around $15k, a 2013 for $17k v a new loaded up exped for $80k to $90k, add $10k for a comparable navigator.

The 2019s have a 10 speed transmission. They're also aluminum bodies and so they weigh a lot less. Our expedition is only a couple hundred pounds heavier than my trailblazer as a result.

They switched from the 5.4 to the older 3.5 in the mid 2010s, those are still steel bodies and older tech, but good vehicles and a lot less expensive. Honestly that generation would be a good buy for a less expensive tow vehicle.

 

[2kwik4u]

This is not a hard set rule, but it is true you may not be covered. Most insurance policies have clauses that allow for the company not to pay on claims if the damages were caused because of intentional actions on the part of the insured. If they can show that you knew or reasonably should have known that you were engaging in conduct that is, on it's face, illegal or negligent, then the liability lies entirely with you personally, and they'll likely not pay. In a case such as this where you are either knowingly or should have reasonably known that you are exceeding the stated design limitations of the vehicle and cause an accident its likely that you would not be covered. Additionally you could also incur criminal and civil liability's if you injure someone and they sue you.

A quick google search lead me to an attorney's site, see below for their interpretation.

"Insurance may not Cover Damages

Generally speaking, insurance companies are supposed to cover any damage that is done to your car in an accident. However, the insurance may not cover the damages if an overloaded vehicle caused the accident. The reason? Because, given the facts, it may well be illegal to overload your vehicle." - Wagner Law

I've seen this rhetoric online for literal decades now, and have yet to see a single report of insurance NOT paying because an accident occurred and the tow vehicle was overloaded. Beyond that I have person anecdotal evidence that insurance DID pay when a vehicle was grossly overloaded towing a rental travel trailer and overturned within 50 miles of leaving home.

I'll reconsider my position when someone can show me a case where insurance denied coverage because of being overloaded.

 

[2kwik4u]

Be on the safe side. Over engineer everything. I tow with this…. Ok, way over engineered…

That's a sharp looking truck! Bet you can't even feel that john boat back there

[/sarcasm]

I'm honestly jealous of that truck

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

Fish 210 said -Tow ratings includes people and cargo-in the vehicle and the hitch weight of the trailer. That is not your tow rating but is included in your GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. Two different [HASH=571]#s.[/HASH] Tow rating only includes the weight of what you are towing such as trailer and boat combined with what ever is in it. In reality you can exceed our GCWR while still being within your vehicles tow rating. This is why tow rating of vehicles is often a marketing tool while in reality you can never get close to your advertised tow rating and still be within the parameters of your vehicle.

Tow ratings do include people and cargo. The current tow rating (SAE J2807) on vehicles is assuming two persons of 150# each and no cargo in the vehicle and a full tank of fuel. Ergo, an increase of people, cargo and any accessories affects the tow rating.

I totally agree with you about manufacturers doing the bait and switch in advertising how much a given model can tow, that’s usually a very specific model within a manufacturers line up. It can be overwhelming for a new comer to look at the manufacturers tow vehicles spread sheet of various configurations and the varying tow ratings. It also doesn’t help that most salesman either don’t know how to read those spread sheets and or use the towing calculators in the owners manuals, or they just flat out lie. I got bit by this with one of the trucks I bought in the past, I was within the manufacturers tow limit and GCVWR but was over on the GVWR due to the pin weight of my toy hauler, I also learned that RV manufacturers lie like a rug about the weight of their trailers and pin weights. That was a hard lesson learned, needless to say I won‘t make that mistake again, I only buy one ton trucks.

One thing that did help was the adoption of the SAE towing standard, @2kwik4u thanks for the SAE number, Toyota gets big props for being the first one to adopt this standard with the other big three following suit a year or three later. Why the delay of the big three? Because the SAE towing standard lowered the base tow rating due to a rigorous set of parameters in a relatively controlled environment/ test conditions. It is my understanding that this SAE standard applies to all light duty towing vehicles including vans and cars.

Two of many articles on the net.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests

Here is some helpful info explaining how SAE J2807 tow tests are performed

fifthwheelst.com

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard_Towing

 

[2kwik4u]

..... I also learned that RV manufacturers lie like a rug about the weight of their trailers and pin weights. ............

This belongs in the dad joke thread we were having yesterday or the day before. I use this ALL the time at home

One thing that did help was the adoption of the SAE towing standard, @2kwik4u thanks for the SAE number, Toyota gets big props for being the first one to adopt this standard with the other big three following suit a year or three later. Why the delay of the big three? Because the SAE towing standard lowered the base tow rating due to a rigorous set of parameters in a relatively controlled environment/ test conditions. It is my understanding that this SAE standard applies to all light duty towing vehicles including vans and cars.

Two of many articles on the net.

SAE J2807 Tow Tests

Here is some helpful info explaining how SAE J2807 tow tests are performed

fifthwheelst.com

SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard_Towing

It was really interesting when this tow rating was first adopted some time back. Minivans got big bumps, with moves from 1,500 to 4,500lbs not being uncommon. Then fullsize pickups got reductions, with drops from 6-7k range down into the 5k range happening.

If you read through the SAE spec you'll see a lot of emphasis on cooling, stability, and stopping. There is some acceleration, and a minimum speed must be maintained on grade, but it's FAR FAR less than what most people deem "comfortable". Which leads back to my previous comment about how "acceptable" is a very subjective measure. One dudes gonna love his Tacoma, another will find it wildly inadequate.

 

[WV Hillbilly]

That's a sharp looking truck! Bet you can't even feel that john boat back there

[/sarcasm]

I'm honestly jealous of that truck

Thanks. I do love it. I went from a Yukon with a 5.3 6 speed to a Duramax 6.6 with a 10 speed. Upgraded the truck for other hauling needs but a side benefit was towing the boat. Changed out the single axle trailer for an aluminum tandem axle too. I have literally had to look back to make sure the trailer was still there but I haven’t looked back on either upgrade.

 

[FSH 210 Sport]

This belongs in the dad joke thread we were having yesterday or the day before. I use this ALL the time at home



It was really interesting when this tow rating was first adopted some time back. Minivans got big bumps, with moves from 1,500 to 4,500lbs not being uncommon. Then fullsize pickups got reductions, with drops from 6-7k range down into the 5k range happening.

If you read through the SAE spec you'll see a lot of emphasis on cooling, stability, and stopping. There is some acceleration, and a minimum speed must be maintained on grade, but it's FAR FAR less than what most people deem "comfortable". Which leads back to my previous comment about how "acceptable" is a very subjective measure. One dudes gonna love his Tacoma, another will find it wildly inadequate.

Lie like a rug is an oldie but a goodie!

I grew up with my folks towing trailers, and when I finally got a truck capable of towing I followed suit… Most people I know comment on how easy I drive my vehicles, but are surprised how hard I will push them when pulling a grade while towing, as long as temps remain in the normal range / band I’ll keep my foot in the fan, speaking of which, the engine driven but computer controlled fan on my Ford diesel makes a lot of noise when fully engaged at high engine rpm’s but it is Incredibly effective at keeping the engine, transmission, fuel, and intake air within parameters even on the hottest days, I suspect that all the heavy haulers in the light duty truck fleet do the same. I do think the SAE standard had an impact on this, the only variable that I did not see in the standard was at what ambient temperature the test run was to be done at, personally I’d like to see that test done at 100° F with the AC on Max, cabin temperature not withstanding.

Overkill is underrated.

Hold the load…Put it in the red….that’s what goes through my head every time I mash the throttle!

One of my three all time favorite movies..

 

[Maccam26]

Since you have a Wrangler, the only answer to your question is a Gladiator.

i have a Gladiator for my 19ft boat, probably wouldn't if i had a 250 though.

 

[2kwik4u]

Lie like a rug is an oldie but a goodie!

I grew up with my folks towing trailers, and when I finally got a truck capable of towing I followed suit… Most people I know comment on how easy I drive my vehicles, but are surprised how hard I will push them when pulling a grade while towing, as long as temps remain in the normal range / band I’ll keep my foot in the fan, speaking of which, the engine driven but computer controlled fan on my Ford diesel makes a lot of noise when fully engaged at high engine rpm’s but it is Incredibly effective at keeping the engine, transmission, fuel, and intake air within parameters even on the hottest days, I suspect that all the heavy haulers in the light duty truck fleet do the same. I do think the SAE standard had an impact on this, the only variable that I did not see in the standard was at what ambient temperature the test run was to be done at, personally I’d like to see that test done at 100° F with the AC on Max, cabin temperature not withstanding.

Overkill is underrated.

Hold the load…Put it in the red….that’s what goes through my head every time I mash the throttle!

One of my three all time favorite movies..

I think the test is supposed to be run at 110deg ambient on the Davis Dam Grade.....I'll have to go reread to be certain.

*edit* This MT article says a minimum of 100deg for the climb test. -> SAE J2807 Tow Tests - The Standard

That fan is an interesting note. I did some testing in college on fan cooling capabilities for a fluid power class. We were using them to cool hydraulic fluid as a means to reduce the sump capacity for weight (Sump sidewall cooling is more than most people think).....Anywho, we found that electric fans typically don't have the required airflow for high heat loading, and a mechanical fan is often 7-10x more airflow per given area. This is due to the available horsepower to spin the fan, and the subsequently more aggressive blade profiles that can be used. Manufacturers USED to run a temperature varying viscosity in the fan "clutch" that would engage and disengage the fan based on temperature. Now they do it electronically.....same premise though, save the HP from the fan when you don't need the cooling ,but have the capacity there when you do.