Lateral Thruster 2.0

[Cobra Jet Steering LLC]

With a twin engine jet boat you can just stagger the throttles and get excellent results without removing any reverse thrust, you can also bump the throttles to move very slowly in forward or reverse with or without any other steering enhancements..
As for Yamaha saying not to use reverse to stop at HIGH SPEEDS of course you should avoid that !
Years ago people did sub moves using reverse just for fun and I believe on the newer boats Yamaha has actually reduced the amount of reverse you can apply until you are going off plane speeds. https://jetboaters.net/threads/post-up-your-sub-moves-pics-and-videos.2776/ That being said I am sure they provided the necessary thrust in reverse to allow you to stop for emergencies. So taking the currently available thrust and greatly reducing it may lead to a collision with a fixed object or a person in the water being picked up during watersport activities for example. As I have said previously if you have a 2019 or newer Yamaha with the latest nozzle designs and the angled reverse If you have aftermarket steering on your boat and the fins are blocking the thrust from going out properly I suggest you address that first. I had to make adjustments to the leading edges of my AK-19 fins to accommodate the angled thrust on those nozzles. I really like how Yamaha designed the nozzles and in comparison to the 2 previous designs it is hands down a better design in my opinion and I do see a way to improve it even more, but that is a battle for another day. Now remember if you want steering control at all speeds for water sport activities for wind waves and strong currents steering that will improve your jet boat experience without bars between the fins below the nozzle with adjustments so you can set the level of influence to your personal preference If you want to have high speed and slow speed control even in off power situations If you want the other features and benefits on the newer boats like the second tie rod for balance and redundancy the plaining surfaces for faster hole shot a smoother rids and a cleaner wake for watersport activities with choices then Cobra jet steering has been making jet boats steer and drivers smile for 20 years and you can look at the various systems available for your boat here on this forum just click on this link https://jetboaters.net/threads/basi...us-options-from-cobra-jet-steering-llc.16857/ Also my web page is being totally redesigned to make it easy or at least easier for you to view the model specific steering systems I make for the Yamaha jet boat line and the upgrades for those systems, This is what I do and what I have done for the past 20 years so do your research, I never hire marketing people to post on the internet , I blazed this trail 20 years ago and others are following it, Steering is what I do and I take it very seriously, remember if you have any questions about what system would be the best system for your boat from a 1996 model to the 2022 models feel free to contact me. Remember the average person drives their boat like they drive a car and not having the most control and the most response to the steering wheel at all speeds usually causes the operator anxiety.
OOPS it is time to go watch FOOTBALL

 

[Can0n11]

Thanks, very detailed!

I have a few questions if you don't mind.

What is "less vertical axis movement"?

The less vertical axis movement was in reference to neutral/idle setting on my FSH190. On my boat there was a definite wander or yaw while in Neutral without any add-ons which diminished as the bucket dropped into reverse and throttle was increased(in reverse). Our DNR ramps up here on the lakes I launch have 1 dock, and I have to loiter in line to cycle in with the launch and the trailering crowd. Much less work now with the 2.0 waiting in line. There is also a big difference with deck wash/steering centered. The 2020 stock nozzle appears to direct reverse thrust at about a 25 + degree offset. I believe 2.0 takes 50% of this volume and redirects close to 90 degrees through a shaped nozzle. The boat does spin almost in place with 2.0's and a high throttle setting and full steering.

What is your baseline? Are your comparisons against original TVs (not trimmed) or against TVLs (trimmed) or against complete stock setup (no TVs or LTs)?

I ran the FSH190 without TV's or 2.0 for approx. 10hrs. - trolling and cruising with the pontoon boats quite frankly sucked having to constantly make steering adjustments. I added TV's and night and day difference nirvana while setting lines, and maintaining pre-established tracks. My last addition, the 2.0 kit came with TV's cutout for the 2.0's and my tracking is still solid. When we slow cruise around the lakes, I can actually enjoy the trip and even sit on the leaning post and relax.

I am trying to determine the impact of LT2s above what trimming TVs would provide alone.

I am not aware of trimming TV's and the affect it would have in reverse since I have no experience with this.


At the same time I'm trying to understand the negative impacts. My two main concerns are...

How much less reverse thrust is there? Enough to easily fight 20 knot stern winds?
I haven't had to use full thrust to counter 12-18 knot tail winds or back out in general. I pretty much minimize my reverse applications and speeds to fit my comfort level but it comes out nicely off the trailer and dock. My wind angles were up to 30-40 degrees off center on stern winds with waves 1ft or less.
For a 190 series, my understanding is that you have 50% thrust at 90 degrees and 50% at 25-30 degrees on each outlet nozzle.
If you have a 200 series you have 1 outlet(outboard) nozzle at 90deg./50% and inboard nozzle at 25deg./100% per pump. So you would get a net 25 deg. reverse of 75%. per jet pump motor. The opposing jet pump motor inboard pump nozzle compliments the turning tendency and also reverse (longitudinal axis) thrust. Lots of angles, power, and water moving on a twin which makes that single nozzle effective, and the opposing 90 deg. in my mind isn't as effective as its position moves inwards towards center mass of the boat but it may be causing added stability. I am by no means an expert on fluid dynamics, but Newtons an Bernoulli's laws and principle come into play here to make magic happen effectively with the single and twin engine 2.0 config. Will has a much better Idea of whats going on and what makes his product work.

Since straight reverse will have some constant lateral thrust, would being close to a solid dock result in some push off that needs compensation with steering?

The boat comes off the dock solid/straight with center steering. The lower angle nozzle changes or slight steering wheel seems to keep the boat on a straighter track since I am getting lateral from both sides if that makes sense. Depending on the wind, I usually have my passenger push away clear, but there may be a better way to do this? I maneuver to clear the dock, full left or right, apply power, spin the boat and am on my way.

Also, how durable do they seem? Is reverse full throttling going to tear them apart?

They seem pretty solid, and they are held into place well. Next spring they will be getting a workout after ice out and we start chasing Muskie .

I am happy with my setup and how the boat is balanced overall. Hope this helps!

Thanks!

 

[1WetBoat]

I have watched that video a lot and unfortunately I find it inconclusive at best. At worst it actually leaves me feeling less convinced.

He initially starts with the wheel hard starboard a few feet off the dock. This pivots him to port but unexpectedly also seems to start some backward motion. He straightens out by over correcting and then seems to coast the the way. Given the debris and bubbles kicked up on the port side even when the wheel was straight, I would expect something similar (but probably less} on starboard side due to the over correction. Once he's far enough back to see it, there's nothing there. This leaves me questioning the value and maybe the legitimacy of this video.
I have to entertain that a very plausible explanation for why there was some initial backward movement when steering was hard starboard and no visible starboard debris following an over correction as well as what we see on the port side when there's power applied is that there's no LT2 installed on the starboard side.
I need more video of straight back motion without and turning where we can see both sides.

Good observation but i kinda see it differently. To me it seems as if he starts with the wheel hard starboard to push his bow away from the dock since the stern is further out a bit, corrects to port and then centers the wheel to keep going in reverse in a straight line.
I see equal wash from both sides (pic below) when he backs up, and its even for Port/Starboard. Then he goes neutral, forward and starts his 180 to pull away. I was watching it on my TV and not my PC monitor if that makes a difference.

Either way the effects will be really known once I install mine and get to test.

 

[RobbieO]

I usually sync my throttles, not interested in staggering the throttles. Too much to think about, much easier to F up.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

If you watch closely as I begin the turn to slide the stern towards the dock the wheel gets rotated hard to starboard and the lateral jet thrust becomes very visible coming from the port side jet pump. At this point I have the starboard side throttle in neutral and the port side throttle at about 2500-3000 rpm in reverse.

The salt water makes lots of bubbles, which tells the story much better than I can with words. Once I get the angle I want for departure, I center the wheel and press both throttle levers forward.

 

[SunnyD]

If you watch closely as I begin the turn to slide the stern towards the dock the wheel gets rotated hard to starboard and the lateral jet thrust becomes very visible coming from the port side jet pump. At this point I have the starboard side throttle in neutral and the port side throttle at about 2500-3000 rpm in reverse.

The salt water makes lots of bubbles, which tells the story much better than I can with words. Once I get the angle I want for departure, I center the wheel and press both throttle levers forward.

Yeah, the lateral port thrust is very clear. I have no questions or concerns with the port lateral thrust.

My confusion is still with what's going on with the starboard side. The starboard bubbles don't seem to be matching up with an idle thrust, but maybe they are. Maybe I'm underestimating the single port thruster though and the starboard bubbles are also from the port thrust in reverse. That would definitely explain the bubble pattern throughout the video.

My only question would then be why was only the port jet be used for this maneuver? Is it habit to save gas?

 

[SunnyD]

I usually sync my throttles, not interested in staggering the throttles. Too much to think about, much easier to F up.

Absolutely agreed!

 

[RobbieO]

If you watch closely as I begin the turn to slide the stern towards the dock the wheel gets rotated hard to starboard and the lateral jet thrust becomes very visible coming from the port side jet pump. At this point I have the starboard side throttle in neutral and the port side throttle at about 2500-3000 rpm in reverse.

The salt water makes lots of bubbles, which tells the story much better than I can with words. Once I get the angle I want for departure, I center the wheel and press both throttle levers forward.

So is the idea to put one throttle in neutral to eliminate the effect of that thruster? As I stated previously, I sync my throttles, especially around tight situations, i.e. docking. When docking, I point the nose about 45 degrees towards the dock, and crank the wheel towards the direction I want the stern to go. So I guess my question is, is the stern now going to turn faster towards the dock or no additional effect. My thinking is I want the LT's to help me move away faster, not towards. I hope I'm making sense.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Yeah, the lateral port thrust is very clear. I have no questions or concerns with the port lateral thrust.

My confusion is still with what's going on with the starboard side. The starboard bubbles don't seem to be matching up with an idle thrust, but maybe they are. Maybe I'm underestimating the single port thruster though and the starboard bubbles are also from the port thrust in reverse. That would definitely explain the bubble pattern throughout the video.

My only question would then be why was only the port jet be used for this maneuver? Is it habit to save gas?

During the reverse movement I was using both throttles together, but if you watch closely I almost hit the dock as I backed away and I may have added some extra starboard thrust to push me away. Then I added forward thrust to cancel the rearward travel and then began my pivot using port side throttle only. I use one throttle alot when docking and using Lateral Thruster. It really helps in making precision turns.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

So is the idea to put one throttle in neutral to eliminate the effect of that thruster? As I stated previously, I sync my throttles, especially around tight situations, i.e. docking. When docking, I point the nose about 45 degrees towards the dock, and crank the wheel towards the direction I want the stern to go. So I guess my question is, is the stern now going to turn faster towards the dock or no additional effect. My thinking is I want the LT's to help me move away faster, not towards. I hope I'm making sense.

You can use your typical docking maneuver that you're comfortable with. The Lateral Thruster is simply going to give you more lateral force and take away a little reverse crawl. If you find that you want to push the stern away from the dock, you can do that easier than without plus its more effective into the wind or current.

 

[RobbieO]

During the reverse movement I was using both throttles together, but if you watch closely I almost hit the dock as I backed away and I may have added some extra starboard thrust to push me away. Then I added forward thrust to cancel the rearward travel and then began my pivot using port side throttle only. I use one throttle alot when docking and using Lateral Thruster. It really helps in making precision turns.

When you say you use one throttle, are you synced or using one engine? Thanks for answering all my questions. Great customer service.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

When you say you use one throttle, are you synced or using one engine? Thanks for answering all my questions. Great customer service.

We rarely sync throttles on our boats since we don't have the sync feature in Connext and we don't yet have a Throttle Sync product for 2018 and newer. I am referring to one throttle only when I want to perform max lateral force maneuvers.

 

[SunnyD]

During the reverse movement I was using both throttles together, but if you watch closely I almost hit the dock as I backed away and I may have added some extra starboard thrust to push me away. Then I added forward thrust to cancel the rearward travel and then began my pivot using port side throttle only. I use one throttle alot when docking and using Lateral Thruster. It really helps in making precision turns.

Yes, I can see there was more maneuvering then I would expect. It's this fact that, for me, makes this video inconclusive for determining if there's a negative effect the LT2s are having.
Any chance you're going out sometime and can get a nice clean sample for reverse straight, and non-straight manuvers with the throttles synced?
If I didn't need to drill a hole in the housing I would just by them and try them, but if I'm going to change my expensive toy permanently, I want to be sure.

 

[JetBoatPilot]

Yes, I can see there was more maneuvering then I would expect. It's this fact that, for me, makes this video inconclusive for determining if there's a negative effect the LT2s are having.
Any chance you're going out sometime and can get a nice clean sample for reverse straight, and non-straight manuvers with the throttles synced?
If I didn't need to drill a hole in the housing I would just by them and try them, but if I'm going to change my expensive toy permanently, I want to be sure.

I could do that but I think the video would not give you much info on what's actually happening. I can tell you that I have noted that with the Lateral Thruster installed I do have to back the boat further down the ramp to get the boat to power off the trailer. Also when approaching a dock I have to give a little more rpm to slow the boat down as compared to stock configuration.

From what we hear from users in the field they have been pleased with the amount of reverse power they retained and everyone has said that the trade off was worth it. Basically more control is more favorable than more reverse velocity/power.

 

[biffdotorg]

From what we hear from users in the field they have been pleased with the amount of reverse power they retained and everyone has said that the trade off was worth it. Basically more control is more favorable than more reverse velocity/power.

100% agreed. We had a pretty heavy drought in MN last season. And we would come to find our boats stuck on lifts that we could not lower enough to get off. So we had to power off a few times. We still had plenty of thrust to get off the lifts. And believe me, I have a very clean bottom under my lift after that.

If you had put these on prior to driving the boat, you would have never known what you were missing, the reverse thrust is that adequate. The only way you would ever know if you lost anything, was if you had a direct comparison at the day of installation. As you adjust for it immediately.

The fact that they are so intuitive to use, there is minimal learning curve, as we all adjust for wind, current, boat wake. There are way more variables effecting my approach to a dock, lift or trailer than the LT's. This is truly a non issue being blown up for no real reason.

My ego loves the boost I get when parallel parking our 242LS, or backing into a slip at a lakeside bar in front of piles of people. I will take that any day.

 

[RobbieO]

Yes, I can see there was more maneuvering then I would expect. It's this fact that, for me, makes this video inconclusive for determining if there's a negative effect the LT2s are having.
Any chance you're going out sometime and can get a nice clean sample for reverse straight, and non-straight manuvers with the throttles synced?
If I didn't need to drill a hole in the housing I would just by them and try them, but if I'm going to change my expensive toy permanently, I want to be sure.

I already purchase my kit. I guess I could always plug the hole if I decided I didn’t like them. JBP makes good products, I’m sure I’ll love them. I don’t power my boat off/on the trailer, so not too concerned about the loss of reverse thrust. Reverse thrust is very important when pulling into a tight slip or fuel dock in rough conditions. I’ll be installing in the coming weeks and will do a trial run while the lakes are relatively boat free.

 

[Wicked92]

I already purchase my kit. I guess I could always plug the hole if I decided I didn’t like them. JBP makes good products, I’m sure I’ll love them. I don’t power my boat off/on the trailer, so not too concerned about the loss of reverse thrust. Reverse thrust is very important when pulling into a tight slip or fuel dock in rough conditions. I’ll be installing in the coming weeks and will do a trial run while the lakes are relatively boat free.

same, i never power my boat on or off trailer. Luckily the launches we use are in coves where its not crazy with wind and currents.

 

[Adrian @ JB Solutions]

You guys not powering on must like winching for 10 minutes lol.

 

[Wicked92]

You guys not powering on must like winching for 10 minutes lol.

hell no, we put the trailer deep enough in for the bunks to be submerged. I can have my boat on the trailer and outta the water in 5 mins. Literally only have to winch the last 10 feet as we connect the strap and draw it into the bunks by hand.

 

[212s]

You guys not powering on must like winching for 10 minutes lol.

Winching about 7-8 feet and hooking the safety chain only takes about 30 seconds of cranking...we're always out of the water faster than power loaders. A little practice and coordinating with my wife is all it takes to launch or load quickly.