New Solas props from Impros on 09 212ss212ss

[swatski]

Someone here had their impellers repitched by Impros but they did not bring the OD back to specs, which was out of whack, and David's (of Impros) explanation seemed like plain BS, which is too bad. Impros may be a victim of their own success, I guess.

At this point I would go with Skat for any serious repair. They charge a bit more, but Glen there would probably not return anything out of specs. And if you call and ask to talk to him (he can be a little hard to get), he LOVES talking about impellers. I think you would have a blast and he would treat you right.
But the thing is, by the time you are done the new ones are not that much more expensive... actually.

BTW - if you changing banged up impellers, it's a bit like changing a flat tire... The new one always feels good!

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[DCB-270]

@DCB-270 I am not surprised, actually. I have done a lot of testing, and am back to use the OEM impellers, only. And always new. If I had to refurbish, send them to Skat.

Tried very hard to prove to myself that those shiny aftermarket impellers are actually an upgrade... But, for me, they could never outperform the OEM. Come to think of it - are there any solid, verifiable data showing that an aftermarket impeller outperforms Yamaha OEM? Solas Concords may be faster by a hair, maybe, but cavitate the most. Skats (Trak) are probably the closest (I tested some Riva editions which were okay) but overall you can not beat the OEM, I don't think.

I think buying new OEM impellers, when you need them, is the way to go. Best prices I find are Powersports Parts 4 Less http://www.powersportsparts4less.com/default.asp.

Regarding Impros, I think they USED TO be great. Not anymore, IMHO.
Most of the "packages" they offer (for repair or repitch) do NOT include welding the OD back to specs... That is farcical for a company that is supposed to be a racing legend and a benchmark for quality.
Hate to tell you but I doubt they even touched your Solas... With any serious repitching they would loose the shine, and even Impros "racing" finish is groovy, not shiny like a brand new Solas. That shine does nothing to performance, but you can tell if the impeller was seeing some serious work...

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Had solas on my two previous Yamaha's. Worked great on them. I expected the same results on this one.

 

[DCB-270]

If you want to do over 50 mph for sure don't check gps

I know. My Group K exciter would bounce the speedo to 70. Mor like 62 - 65 GPS.

 

[Speedling]

I know. My Group K exciter would bounce the speedo to 70. Mor like 62 - 65 GPS.

I dunno man, my exciter was more accurate for some reason! Well... until it was airborn, LOL!
I had a solid 65mph on mine but as soon as you throw a wife, kid and cooler in it I was down to like 58-60 but honestly it was never smooth enough to have the wife let me go over 30.

Perhaps I'll send SKAT my oem impellers and see what they say! How much did sending back and forth cost @swatski?

 

[swatski]

Okay, found at least one of the invoice pics!
It is not exactly cheap, but they are always welded to the exact OD, and just look factory-new.

I always asked them to use USPS, and they did, that was not too bad but can't find exactly what it was...
Here is the invoice:

 

[Chillypilot]

I put Solas Dynaflys on my SX230. I puchased them from Impros. They were pitched for a little more hole shot with a minimal loss in speed. That's exactly what I got. Both engines top our around 10200rpm, and a top speed of 48mph. I am the one @swatski is referring to regarding the OD being out of spec. Although I was surprised that Impros sent it that way, it seems to work fine even when I load the boat with ballast. Overall I'm satisfied with my transaction with Impros. That being said, In the offseason I will be sending my impeller back to have the OD brought back to speck because I'm just anal about shit like that.

 

[Ronnie]

I have had nothing but good experiences with Impros over three jet boats now. The impellers I got from them always did as expected and discussed which is generally less cavitation and better acceleration with minmal to no loss in top speed. The OEM impellers I replaced with Impros units were not worn so that wasn't really a factor for me. I'd bet they only repitched one of the solas units I recently bought from them and that was just to keep them running at the same or close to the same rpm through out the throttle range. As you probably already know the stock impellers have different pitches as well,why is debatable but I've been convinced it's so the the Rpms Match and the boat tracks straight. However, losing that much rpm is definately not right, I would give Impros a call and ask them to make it right on their dime (expect for shipping which I would offer to split) and on an expedited basis. In my case I'd slap my oems back in while I waited but wouldn't do the same if they needed to be refurbished.

On a related note, almost every impeller related write up I've read indicated that polished stainless steel impellers are not he best performance wise, non polished (rougher feeling) impellers are. I can't explain it with a lot of technical detail but the analogy is to water conditions for top speed testing of boats, many think smooth water is best but (from what I've read) lite chop is because less friction between the water and hull is created in lite chop conditions. That said, I went with polished stainless steel replacements from Impros because that is what they had, again mine did as expected/discussed.

By the way, when I ordered my last set of impellers from Impros I told David about this site and suggested that he join it. In response he stated that he didn't have the time (Impros is a two person shop) since it's easy to get drawn into long technical discussions (based on his experiences on other sites) which takes away from the time it takes to actually work on impellers / run the business. Made sense too me, I don't want to become an impeller expert but ask any questions I may have because I don't want to get ripped off either.

Good luck on resolving this new issue with reduced rpms, I hope Impros does you right.

 

[swatski]

As far as I'm concerned, I will NOT likely go back to Impros. The importance of proper OD clearance in impeller tuning can not be overstated, and any shop arguing otherwise will not get my business.
I view @Chillypilot experience, along with my own, as pretty indicative (he kindly posted David's response to his inquiries).

Please share when you find an aftermarket impeller that beats the OEM. Pictures and data always nice.

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[DCB-270]

I'm sure Impros can get them right. They are perfectly balanced rpms. Just a little too much prop.

 

[Ronnie]

As far as I'm concerned, I will NOT likely go back to Impros. The importance of proper OD clearance in impeller tuning can not be overstated, and any shop arguing otherwise will not get my business.
I view @Chillypilot experience, along with my own, as pretty indicative (he kindly posted David's response to his inquiries).

Please share when you find an aftermarket impeller that beats the OEM. Pictures and data always nice.

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Please educate me, Chillypilot stated he is getting to full RPMs (10,200) with his impros purchased and repitched Solas impellers so why is it important to have the proper OD clearance? I'm asking because I have Solas impellers from impros and am not sure it would be worth the time, effort and expense to address possible out of spec issues. In my case, with a six year old boat and a few hundred hours on each engine, the wear rings are probably worn out of spec already so getting everything back to spec may require more than just impeller work. Recalling what it took to get the stock impellers off of their shafts makes me think F it altogether, just address impeller problems as/if they arise rather than fixing something that is not broken but I could be persuaded otherwise if there is a noticeable benefit to it.

 

[swatski]

Please educate me, Chillypilot stated he is getting to full RPMs (10,200) with his impros purchased and repitched Solas impellers so why is it important to have the proper OD clearance? I'm asking because I have Solas impellers from impros and am not sure it would be worth the time, effort and expense to address possible out of spec issues. In my case, with a six year old boat and a few hundred hours on each engine, the wear rings are probably worn out of spec already so getting everything back to spec may require more than just impeller work. Recalling what it took to get the stock impellers off of their shafts makes me think F it altogether, just address impeller problems as/if they arise rather than fixing something that is not broken but I could be persuaded otherwise if there is a noticeable benefit to it.

@Ronnie No problem. Here is the thread with the response of David at Impros (post #7). I find the logic in his response to @Chillypilot to be... self serving (read: bs).
There is more information if you search around that.
https://jetboaters.net/threads/impe...ustom-pitch-warranty-voided.9545/#post-163162

I am not surprised an impeller with compromised clearance reaches the rev limit. There is no question it is slipping some and the efficiency is compromised, to an extent. It is amazing the speed does not suffer more, but that is the beauty of the twins! With a single engine an impeller like that would make you want to pull your hair.

 

[Bruce]

@Ronnie, increasing the gap between the impeller and the pump housing should decrease the pumps efficiency. Yamaha has a published spec at which the impeller should be replaced. I assume this is due to their belief that efficiency will be sufficiently compromised to justify replacment.

I suggest you pull the pump cone and measure the gap with a feeler guage before considering any other steps.

As a bit of background @swatski tried many impeller combinations from differing suppliers on his 190 before determining that a new factory impeller along with a fancy come was the best setup. His work on the jet pump along with some engine mods have made his 190 as fast as the supercharged 192. His day job is research and he holds a PHD. With all of this combined I place a lot of value on his impeller advice.

 

[swatski]

@Ronnie, increasing the gap between the impeller and the pump housing should decrease the pumps efficiency. Yamaha has a published spec at which the impeller should be replaced. I assume this is due to their belief that efficiency will be sufficiently compromised to justify replacment.

I suggest you pull the pump cone and measure the gap with a feeler guage before considering any other steps.

As a bit of background @swatski tried many impeller combinations from differing suppliers on his 190 before determining that a new factory impeller along with a fancy come was the best setup. His work on the jet pump along with some engine mods have made his 190 as fast as the supercharged 192. His day job is research and he holds a PHD. With all of this combined I place a lot of value on his impeller advice.

@Bruce is right, for the most part. I USED to run a research lab... Can you tell I miss my old job, LOL?
Nowadays I'm running a clinical molecular diagnostic lab (molecular genetics) which is quite different...

 

[Ronnie]

@Bruce . Thanks for the additional background it's important that I understand the source of information especially when it comes to purchasing decisions or advice. I recall some of the posts by @swatski regarding his impeller and cone testing and the conclusion that the stock impellers have the best balance between acceleration and top speed.

If My Solas wear or are damaged to the point they need to be replaced I will keep the above in mind and probably just put the stock units back on (after verifying they are within spec of course). Hopefully it never comes to this as I really don't wan t to go through the hassle of removing the impellers from the shafts again, maybe it will be eaisier next time around but I'm in no rush to find out.

 

[DCB-270]

Got a hold of Impros they said send them back so I went ahead and put the factory props back on. Get them in the mail this week . try and get some more RPM.

 

[ncnmra]

How did you make out with the impellers?

 

[DCB-270]

How did you make out with the impellers?

Just got them back from Impros. Going to try and get them on this weekend. Hope they are right this time.

 

[DCB-270]

Got the Solas back on. Going go try them and a thunder storm blows in. Maybe tomorrow.

 

[Speedling]

Got the Silas back on. Going go try them and a thunder storm blows in. Maybe tomorrow.

It blew by us pretty quick and now i commited to going to work when i should be on my boat!
Let us know how it goes when ya can.

 

[DCB-270]

Test run today. 9900 50 mph on the factory gauge.